? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

[Shife]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Very basic physics. The most simple analogy I can think of is breaking a pencil. It is very easy to break a 8in pencil in half. It is very difficult to break a 2in pencil in half. The scantlings have remained the same. Only the length has changed.

Another consideration is that the design of a 36ft performance boat like a Scarab with an 8ft beam or your Chris Craft Stinger example is far far removed from the original hull design of a 26ft aluminum fishing boat with an 8ft beam. You can't just scale the overall design dimensions up and expect it to perform in a positive manner. It simply isn't that easy.

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Shife great link, Thanks... I am still reading it... Your pencil theory is very well understood and thats what my hesistation is. i am fully aware of what you mean.


And as far as the welding goes for me. Well I do know that all oxidation etc would need to be removed and aluminum to be welded withun 6 hours of oxidation removal etc. Also The the thin material can be welded for sure but THATS why i wanted others input and thoughts as to what they had thought about the welding etc.. Thanks for your input...

I was thinking that most aircraft handle very high speeds and especially landing etc with no welds all rivets so if i do go threw with this project rivets should be strong enough!

the stringers... I think may need welding...


Now as far as the thought working im sure it can work fine meaning look even and float

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


I did not say and i do not know how it would handle

i do not know as you stated what its integrity would be especailly if your saying your 26 is a little flimzy already as is...

And i do not know how well it will hold up in a ruff sea if cought out there...


But it sure would be a really cool boat...........

And it would be really fun to build and experiement with.....

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Shife it sounds like you know alot about the scantling, the frame work of a vessel etc etc ......


What are your honest thoughts on the merger? Do you really think that this will split like a pencil? On such a light vessel?


It is a basic hull and built relitivly very simple. Its not a hevy fiberglass vessel and its not a ship or a sailing vessel.

Do these theroys really apply to such a basic light wieght design?

And the (really reinforcing the merger I understand) so with that being said..

Some honest thoughts from you and others that have serious backround in boat building and engineering would be a great help to me...

I am truly having a hard time getting my mind off this idea and its giving me restless nights as to the what ifs............... Some solid Replys would be greatly apprisaited.................

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

I think it is a neat idea. But... to do this properly will cost A LOT more than the value of the end product and it will be cheaper to build a 36ft aluminum boat from scratch. Extremely advanced engineering techniques would need to be employed to hold the vessel together and keep it from twisting and cracking apart. Weight is your enemy and trying to stiffen aluminum plate that is half the needed thickness will require a ton of bracing.

A stock 26ft Islander is already a twisty beast underway. A shade tree 36ft Islander is a twisty coral reef. Good luck.

Thanks Shife! I gotta get some rest...........

 

[Shife]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Shife it sounds like you know alot about the scantling, the frame work of a vessel etc etc ......


What are your honest thoughts on the merger? Do you really think that this will split like a pencil? On such a light vessel?


It is a basic hull and built relitivly very simple. Its not a hevy fiberglass vessel and its not a ship or a sailing vessel.

Do these theroys really apply to such a basic light wieght design?

And the (really reinforcing the merger I understand) so with that being said..

Some honest thoughts from you and others that have serious backround in boat building and engineering would be a great help to me...

I am truly having a hard time getting my mind off this idea and its giving me restless nights as to the what ifs............... Some solid Replys would be greatly apprisaited.................

I'm not a naval architect or marine engineer, but my honest opinion is that just grafting the two together will result in an unsafe and unstable vessel that will not survive in a seaway. If you are able to add enough bracing to keep it in one piece, it will perform and handle very poorly.

I honestly feel it would be easier and cheaper to build a 36ft boat with a more size appropriate 10+ft beam from scratch with a better end result. You're into 1/4in hull plate thickness territory with a boat that size. Everything gets thicker, larger, and heavier as size increases. You will need to increase everything including the powerplant. Just sticking two big Islanders together will not yield a mega Islander.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

I dunno, joining 2 hulls together seems like a recipe for disaster.

If you really want a 30+' aluminum boat, why not make one? Seems pretty easy...

I would have linked to that site,,, but would probably be banned for life...

 

[Comoxsam]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

What are your thoughts on that Comoxsam???

I think you are a VERY adventurous DIYer! I love your spirit and desire to do a project like this but I'd like to say a few things. Believe me I'm not trying to be offensive here at all.

I do think it could be done. Hell anything can be done with enough time and effort. However what about the finished product and your planned uses for it?

As someone said earlier the 26ft Islander is already a twisty boat. As you know not every aluminum boat is built the same. In general I think the bigger the boat the more beefy it is built up by the manufacturer. This makes it difficult to visualize what I'm trying to say here.

To make my point lets use small 14 foot aluminum boats for an example. When you look a small tin boats like 14 footers you see it's possible for a LOT lighter designs. Some cheapo 14 ft boats are the true definition of a tin can but others can be built extremely sturdy. I'm not super familiar with Starcraft construction but if a 26ft Islander is already "twisty" then I'm thinking your idea might end up being like a big version of those cheapo 14fters. Lighter, twisty, flimsy, etc.

I'm not saying it wouldn't float or work but what do you want to use it for? If you are just wanting to take some friends out around the harbour or stay in relatively sheltered waters I think you could have a really FUN BIG boat. However if you are wanting a boat that is going to take you way offshore in some serious weather then you really are getting risky with a fun idea. When safety is involved you can't expect to get a lot of support from others.

I'm sure you COULD provide the adequate bracing and structural support but at the end of it all you still have patchwork project. That is always going to leave a certain amount of doubt in anyone's mind, especially when safety is concerned..

A good thing might be to go look up close at a few big aluminum boats. Bang on the sides. Try to move and shake things around. Get a sense of how sturdy the thing is built. Then go compare that to an Islander. If you notice ANY difference in the Islander being weaker then I think that says a LOT about your idea of making a 36fter. Even with more structural bracing, etc I think you'll be left with a much lighter, less sturdy boat.

As I said not necessarily a bad thing if you use it appropriately. However having a big 36ft boat sitting there it is going to be difficult not to want to load it right up and take it out through it's paces.

I get the impression SNS that you like to do some pretty adventurous boating. Something tells me that you might not be happy with the final result of this project and would always be wanting a more sturdy big boat.

I hope you get some sleep!

 

[Luhrs28]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Just as a point of reference, my Luhrs 28' has an 11' 3" beam. And high freeboard. By joining the 2 hulls as you suggest you're not going to have either of those things in the proportions a normal 36 footer would have.

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

I dunno, joining 2 hulls together seems like a recipe for disaster.

If you really want a 30+' aluminum boat, why not make one? Seems pretty easy...
I would have linked to that site,,, but would probably be banned for life...

A... I was able to get the site that you diddnt want to post a link to from the pictures!


Anyway.... I have found a (Boat in a box) It is a kit shiped to any location you choose and it has multiple different plans and sizes etc and you can basically build your own aluminum boat as well as you know how to weld that is... Which i would be willing to put a kit togeather....


I was looking into it, but then again the price was rediculous,,,

These days I can get a 1989 55ft bertruam for 50K


And they want 50 to 70K for a cc plated tiny... No thanks,,,,


I was going to buy a regulater last year the price was over 100K... Then my wife had a litlle talk with me and brought my head back down to reality...

I was making a impulse decision.

After looking around at thousands of used cc boats I am really glad i diddnt buy the boat...

Boats loose big value right after you take possesoin of it! I could get the same ragulater right now that i would have boat last year for 50K cheaper... Thats nuts...


So i do not believe in buying new at all...

Now what i really would want to buy is a 33 or 36 plated custom cc...

But I have another hobbie and its called buying realestate rental properties.

I own 7 homes that are full rental properties.

After I purchase my next property there will be no more property purchasing for me..

These propertys are my retirment plan so,,, you know how that goes....

If I were to buy a new vessel it would be in 5 years when 5 of my properties would be paid in full all the rental income will be profit.....

Then I will be using that profit to pay the other 3 homes off rather quickly and maybe just maybe I new boat


But until then I do not want to wast the money on a new vessel, So I am looking for a very in-expencive way to make a larger cc aluminum boat..

I have a mid sized suv for long haul trips and don't want a very heavy fiberglass boat and pull it with the big gas guzzler!


I wont be trailering it alot far away but if i wanted to i want the option...

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Thanks como..... And Luhurs28 A 36ft cc chriscraft scorpion has the same width (beam) and the build idea would actually be a deeper hull platform then the chriscraft ... And many take these chris crafts way offshore everyday!

My fathers old sportcraft pesca was 36ft with a 13 ft beam... I understand what some have said about beam....

But not everyone knows about and has seen alot of these offshore center console vessels. Alot of them have narrow beams and are very long and fast to slice threw the water and go fast 100 miles offshore. And catch some tuna and get home even faster.... So the beam is sufficiant....

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

What i dont under stand is take aircraft for example. The fusalage is 1 seperate piece then the cabin then the wing structure. These 3 pieces are all riveted togeather.

Now there has been 1 opinion that the 26 islander hull is flimzy. So I will make a question thread post and ask if it is or isnt...


But if it is a sturdy hull and not flimzy as stated by someone in this thread,,


I was thinking if aircarft can be riveted togeather in sections, So can this boat idea I have!


So I don't get why alot of responces have had so much doudbt ..

The more I have read about skantling and boay building and skeletul structure of aluminum hulls etc..


Then reading more about how aircraft is built and put togeather etc...


The more im personally thinking this will work! Im not just thinking this will work. I'm thinking this will work very well... And be very very strong....


And cosmo I get your point totally! (But If I do somthing and I have doubt in how the work is being performed and if I feel the hull may be a risk etc....


I wont build it.... Or ill stop building it,,,,,And thanks for the kind words,,, Your responce has been very helpful and actually modivating! So thanks

But after reading about aircraft I think just rivets would be the way to go and just weld the stringers and supports with rivets!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

A... I was able to get the site that you diddnt want to post a link to from the pictures!

Taint that hard...... The content of that site isn't in line with Iboat's "family friendly" atmosphere, so I won't directly link to that site.

The boat I posted wasn't a kit, the guy built it himself, off his own drawings. Took a year or so as I remember and I think the only thing he hired out was the welding. But yeah, it wasn't a cheap project, dual Volvo 350HP diesels don't come cheap.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

A... I was able to get the site that you diddnt want to post a link to from the pictures!


Anyway.... I have found a (Boat in a box) It is a kit shiped to any location you choose and it has multiple different plans and sizes etc and you can basically build your own aluminum boat as well as you know how to weld that is... Which i would be willing to put a kit togeather....


I was looking into it, but then again the price was rediculous,,,

These days I can get a 1989 55ft bertruam for 50K


And they want 50 to 70K for a cc plated tiny... No thanks,,,,


I was going to buy a regulater last year the price was over 100K... Then my wife had a litlle talk with me and brought my head back down to reality...

I was making a impulse decision.

After looking around at thousands of used cc boats I am really glad i diddnt buy the boat...

Boats loose big value right after you take possesoin of it! I could get the same ragulater right now that i would have boat last year for 50K cheaper... Thats nuts...


So i do not believe in buying new at all...

Now what i really would want to buy is a 33 or 36 plated custom cc...

But I have another hobbie and its called buying realestate rental properties.

I own 7 homes that are full rental properties.

After I purchase my next property there will be no more property purchasing for me..

These propertys are my retirment plan so,,, you know how that goes....

If I were to buy a new vessel it would be in 5 years when 5 of my properties would be paid in full all the rental income will be profit.....

Then I will be using that profit to pay the other 3 homes off rather quickly and maybe just maybe I new boat


But until then I do not want to wast the money on a new vessel, So I am looking for a very in-expencive way to make a larger cc aluminum boat..

I have a mid sized suv for long haul trips and don't want a very heavy fiberglass boat and pull it with the big gas guzzler!


I wont be trailering it alot far away but if i wanted to i want the option...

With all the $$$$ you are thinking of throwing at this project, fuel for your tow rig is a concern? lol


p.s.
Spell Check is your friend..

 

[Shife]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Thanks como..... And Luhurs28 A 36ft cc chriscraft scorpion has the same width (beam) and the build idea would actually be a deeper hull platform then the chriscraft ... And many take these chris crafts way offshore everyday!

My fathers old sportcraft pesca was 36ft with a 13 ft beam... I understand what some have said about beam....

But not everyone knows about and has seen alot of these offshore center console vessels. Alot of them have narrow beams and are very long and fast to slice threw the water and go fast 100 miles offshore. And catch some tuna and get home even faster.... So the beam is sufficiant....

And what expertise do you have to declare an 8ft beam on this project as sufficient???????????

You cannot take the beam of a purpose built offshore go-fast like the Scorpion and claim that 8ft of beam is just dandy for your 36ft tinny abomination. It doesn't work that way. The engineering and design that makes a 36ft go-fast work is completely different from that of a 26ft Islander. It is highly irresponsible to use the beam from a sandwich construction composite center console as the beam for an aluminum hack job just because they share the same length. I was hoping the link to the boatdesign.net thread would have opened your eyes a little. Contrary to what you would like us to believe, you have demonstrated that you do not have the required skills to pull off a project like this.

I admire your ambition, but somebody needs to take the welder away from you before you kill someone. As suggested in the boatdesign.net link, buy some entry level naval architechture, math, and physics books. You've got to learn to crawl before you walk, and you're currently trying to pull off the pole vault.

Can you design a 36ft aluminum boat with an 8ft beam? Sure. Would anyone in their right mind use a 26ft Islander as the starting point? NO. I hate sounding like a jerk, but you DON'T know what you're doing. You have zero understanding of length/beam ratio and how it effects hull design or why it is even important. Stop pretending that you know it all and start learning. Only then will you have a chance to make something like this even remotely workable.

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Taint that hard...... The content of that site isn't in line with Iboat's "family friendly" atmosphere, so I won't directly link to that site.

The boat I posted wasn't a kit, the guy built it himself, off his own drawings. Took a year or so as I remember and I think the only thing he hired out was the welding. But yeah, it wasn't a cheap project, dual Volvo 350HP diesels don't come cheap.

I hear you! Im sure it wasn't cheap at all,,, And diesels I know alot about.... But For the kind of boat I want I will be choosing speed over fuel economy etc... the boat will be so light That i think twin 150hp will make this thing fly... I want to do 100 miles offshore rather quickly!

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

With all the $$$$ you are thinking of throwing at this project, fuel for your tow rig is a concern? lol


p.s.
Spell Check is your friend..

The reason why I have money is because I know how to save money!


And p.s most of the time I come on here im pritty beat... So if I do miss spell etc Sry .... But I really don't care.... People get the drift.... Thanks 4 ur 2 cents bud... You really added to the thread, You should feel real freaking special!

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

And what expertise do you have to declare an 8ft beam on this project as sufficient???????????

You cannot take the beam of a purpose built offshore go-fast like the Scorpion and claim that 8ft of beam is just dandy for your 36ft tinny abomination. It doesn't work that way. The engineering and design that makes a 36ft go-fast work is completely different from that of a 26ft Islander. It is highly irresponsible to use the beam from a sandwich construction composite center console as the beam for an aluminum hack job just because they share the same length. I was hoping the link to the boatdesign.net thread would have opened your eyes a little. Contrary to what you would like us to believe, you have demonstrated that you do not have the required skills to pull off a project like this.

I admire your ambition, but somebody needs to take the welder away from you before you kill someone. As suggested in the boatdesign.net link, buy some entry level naval architechture, math, and physics books. You've got to learn to crawl before you walk, and you're currently trying to pull off the pole vault.

Can you design a 36ft aluminum boat with an 8ft beam? Sure. Would anyone in their right mind use a 26ft Islander as the starting point? NO. I hate sounding like a jerk, but you DON'T know what you're doing. You have zero understanding of length/beam ratio and how it effects hull design or why it is even important. Stop pretending that you know it all and start learning. Only then will you have a chance to make something like this even remotely workable.

O I am not acting like I know it all..... Thats why I created this thread... I am no boat builder at all. I know that! But this is a idea I have in mind...

And I am just comparing the beam size on most 36ft cc go-fast as you say like scorpion, edgewater, contender, etc...

I was just stating that (I THINK) Never said i know or im positive, But seeing other cc high in lenghth it seems similar and sufficent enough...


Also I think what people are forgetting is no matter what this is a light aluminum boat,,,


Not a vessel under sail, Not a vessel with lots of wieght etc... As a matter a fact its not a vessel at all, Its a idea....

Also I have ordered some books as stated above etc

And it has opened my eyes to things that i would have never thought of as well as things I have yet to learn,,,


And its ok that you are coming off the way you are... Because people are diff and in the end I will do what I want wether it sinks and fails or if it works for what I intended etc...

Or I may just scrap the idea all togeather


But im the type of person that has a thought and does it.....


Wether it works or not is another story......


Also your personal insults were really unnesasary I think..

Just because i may still want to go ahead with my idea does not mean that I do not know how to weld or that I am building a terrable vessel etc...


What if i build this idea and it works great for years and years and years without a problem?

What will that make you someone who knows nothing? No it dosent!

Some people do defy phisics and actually succeed sometimes...

And Im not saying building a structually sound vessel is easy by no means.

But after reading up on some info etc I do think my idea may work for my needs!

And also I am not trying to build the best most sea worthy vessel of all time...


(im just trying to save some $ and get the fishing space im looking for and the light wieght for towing! And thats about all... If I do this idea and it lasts me 5 to 10 years it would have been well worth it to me......)


So thanks for your 2 cents all is helpfull even if it is a little rough and harsh to hear or read etc!

 

[191Seanymphstriper]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

Also chief I did read about starting with a pre excisting structure and adding to it is a huge NO NO etc...


Well There is a Dr in my area who has a custom 92 ft custom offshore vessel. Kinda looks like a biger, wider, longer hatteras .............. Well He had a little work done to his custom. The rear cocpit was extended 22 feet out longer.....

Now I know money talks, And i don't know who did the work, but it looks abnormal yet freaking awsome. Also who knows if they extended the drive shafts etc who know if they really knew what they were doing or if they just made the dr happy and gave him what he wanted and robbed him blind....


But that Dr has a huge smile on his face always


The name of the boat i believe is (The Bone Dr) Hes big into tuna fishing and takes it way offshore. And that bad boy would sink strait to the bottom if that extension went south...

At least my tiny would hopefully float with all the foam!


Well someone added to a structure right there and they diddnt start with a completly new plan or structure!

And im sure adding 22 feet off the back of a already excisting platform must have been a huge structural project!

 

[Shife]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

You could well be Picaso with a welder, but again you are comparing apples to oranges while talking about vegetables. You simply don't understand the terms you are throwing around. You keep using examples of similar, but very different situations in an attempt to prove why your idea is sound.

That's nice that a rich guy with a 70ft sportfish tacked on 22ft to his boat. I'm sure the naval architect and engineering firm that drew up the modification was paid well for their services as well as the yard that performed the work.

Again... A stretched Starcraft Islander does not equal a Chris Craft Scorpion. You are correct that the Islander is a lightweight aluminum vessel and that is your problem. The hull skin is too thin, the ribbing is too weak, and the torsional stiffness is already poor before you start your modification. By the time you fix those issues you might just as well have started from scratch.

Have you found out what grade of aluminum sheet was used to build those Islanders? You're going to need to know stuff like that to do the math that will be involved with this.

Like you said, you're going to do whatever you want to do. Good luck.

 

[Kiwifisher]

Re: ? Starcraft cc rebuild idea Convert (2) 26 starcraft islanders into (1) 36ft cc

You keep on using an aircraft as an example. Aircraft are not "just riveted together" They consist of welded frames with sheeting riveted to the frames.

Your scheme sounds like a lot of fun to do BUT I not think it will be suitable for offshore work. Especially hanging 2 x 150 hp outboards off the back. Besides the obvious design flaws, you also need at least 1/4 inch plate for the hull as well as strong ribs/frames as well as big stringers all made from 1/4 inch ali. Anything less and the boat will flex and buckle and cause stress fractures.

You ask for advice and opinions but if they are not what you want to hear you discard it.

There are plenty of plans available to build boats from scratch, rather go that route and save yourself lots of heartache.