Starcraft Holiday Rebirth

[badbowtie]

Yea I figured I need to get all that foam out from under the floor I even thought about adding some sand in with the epoxy I may even look into DIY bed liner. I am going to call around tomorrow I need to locate another wheel and I need to get three new tires. The ones on there are 6.50-13 so I thinking like 175 80-13 I am going to jump on craigslist and see what I can find in some boat seats.

 

[badbowtie]

Can't forget the running video

 

[Texasmark]

Yea I figured I need to get all that foam out from under the floor I even thought about adding some sand in with the epoxy I may even look into DIY bed liner. I am going to call around tomorrow I need to locate another wheel and I need to get three new tires. The ones on there are 6.50-13 so I thinking like 175 80-13 I am going to jump on craigslist and see what I can find in some boat seats.

My Holiday was a '65 model and had sheets of "Expanded Polystyrene" (coffee cup material) under the deck (floor) for flotation. I bought the boat in mid '80's and it had been partially submerged at a marina for who knows how long....long enough to cause the transom and deck to rot. Even though the wood couldn't take the abuse the foam was completely intact other than some mildew which a Clorox solution fixed. I put it back in and reused it. No problems. So you may not be as bad off as you think on flotation.

 

[Texasmark]

Here is some more pictures from cleaning more after lunch. All them bags are full of all the crap that was on the floor from seats and everything raccoon's destroyed. I am also guessing this boat has foam under the floor and that is what all this white foam is. You can also see the tank and it does look like that is were the gauge should of been so I am not sure if I can replace that part. I am very impressed how clean and solid the floor is but I guess a one owner that has been garage kept its hole life makes a big difference. I also am looking for some different ideas to set up the interior I am going to plan to fish primarily and then also use with the wife and three kids to use the boat. I am really thinking like 4 pedestal seats then the original style back in the corners on each side of motor like original. So I can remove the second set of pedestal seats to fish so have plenty of floor space. I also don' t think I want carpet so I am thinking some kind of epoxy paint right over the plywood.

Keep in mind your paint needs to be anti-skid for the deck. I have made my own by stirring "play sand" in the paint and rollering it on. Play sand is washed and clean. Grains are the right size.

I answered this earlier, but you apparently have the sheets of poly as I did. Taking a close look at what the coons/rats left you should give you an idea as to what you can expect from the rest of it under the deck. Take some of what's in your picture and put it in a container of water. It should float like a plastic cork (the red and white round ones) and if so, forget what's under the floor. My non professional opinion is that with your deck in the condition it is, your bilge will be in as good a shape. Other thing is that there is no wood under the deck. It's all alum. That's the main reason I bought mine....didn't have to worry about structural rot....other than the transom and that wasn't that big of a deal to replace. Yours probably is just fine. A quick check is to get inside while a friend gets on the engine's anti-vent plate with the engine vertical as in your picture. Have him/her move up and down rapidly and look for transom movement at the top center where the engine mounts. If none or very slight, you should be good to go on that part.

 

[jbcurt00]

I dont think I'd want to leave styro that a rat/raccoon had gotten into below deck. IMO, Starcraft did a poor job of adding flotation to boats, as did (do?) most makers, esp on boats this old.

Losing any of what little styro they used is bad enough, but w out pulling the deck, theres no way to know how much has been chewed up and is now mostly beads of stryo not still in sheet form.

Beads of styro floating around loose below deck gets into the limber holes.

I've never seen critter nesting material that didnt also smell like it's also been used as a critter toilet.

Ruling out pulling the deck before its been leak tested is also early in the process.

I agree the deck appears to be in good shape, perhaps it could be removed and put back.

Maybe the transom is still good to go too. You'd be fortunate on both it and the deck.

Last thing to note is that it will never be easier to pull the transom and deck and confirm their actual condition, then now while you've got it torn apart. And absolutely it wont ever be easier to replace either if need be or at least seal up both sides of the plywood and all 4 edges.

I'd also have to weigh whether or not I'd be able to get the Admiral aboard for lengthy cruises if she knew critters had gotten onto the boat and I hadnt done everything possible to remove their presence.

 

[badbowtie]

The floor is extremely solid no bad spots anywhere. The transom is solid also I already tilted motor all the way up and had someone else push on skag and no movement you can even do the hammer test to transom and it is solid. I got abunch of the foam out and going to grab my big shop vac tomorrow and get even more out. I am thinking that I really dont need any of that foam down there anymore. I also am not sure I may have to remove all the floor and install 3/4 plywood since it is only 1/2 and I am not sure if that is thick enough to withstand pedestal seats. Unless if I brush a coat of fiberglass on top of all the wood will make it that much stronger to withstand the pedestal mounts.

 

[mr 88]

The wood should be thick enough but if your worried I would just put a 3/4x 12" x 12" piece under each seat,screwed into the existing wood. That would spread the load out,give you a little more to screw the seat base into and save you the headache of removing the floor. You could also put a access hatch in the middle of all four seats.That would allow you to stick your hand in there and use nuts and bolts.The only drawback with that is where the aluminum stringers are located,they may only allow you to get at part of the bottom of the seat bases,then your into a few more access holes to complete the task.

 

[jbcurt00]

I wouldnt remove the flotation foam and not replace it. It serves a purpose and when done well, adds support to the deck. Fitment problems may arise w putting the side panels and etc back if you change the deck thickness. It determined to use a thicker deck, 5/8 plywood is a nice compromise between the original 1/2 and 3/4 and sometimes mitigates some of the fitment problems of using 3/4.

There is a great deal of information available here about rebuilding tin boats, particularly Starcrafts. I encourage anyone doing a tin boat rehab to take a good look around. Nearly every part of a rebuild has been well documented numerous times. And would help w having a frame of reference for decisions along the way and prevent possible mistakes.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/owners-groups-by-manufacturer/s/starcraft-boats

A small applied square of plywood, screwed to the existing deck, isnt a method I'd use either.

Proceed how you see fit, it is your boat to rebuild as you choose, but many have come and gone before you by following helpful suggestions and the methods found in other rebuilds.

 

[jbcurt00]

This is becoming a rebuild topic. Where would you like me to move it, the Restoration/Build or the Starcraft forum I linked above?

 

[badbowtie]

Restoration or Starcraft surprise me.

 

[jbcurt00]

Starcraft

It is.

Welcome to the Tin-sanity

 

[badbowtie]

Okay so you are saying I need to install all new foam under the floor? What foam are you guys using that will not just soak water? I thought the foam was to just keep the boat from sinking all the way. If I remember right there is a two part foam you can drill some holes in floor and poor it all in. I am just wondering if I am going to have to pull this plywood all up and install 3/4 in its place. Are you guys all using marine plywood or what are you guys using. I also guess I could check on the pink 4x8 2" thick foam tomorrow but that will require removing floor to get it all installed.

 

[64osby]

Blue, green or pink sheets from the big box stores for foam. Floor would need to come out. I would also pull the floor to expose and clean any potential Coon droppings.

You can use pour in foam. Sealing the hull is recommended prior to installing this.

ACX Ply, Aruaco Ply can be cost effective alternates to marine ply. Menards carries the Aruaco ply in Michigan.

 

[jbcurt00]

Foam dampens water against the hull noise and yes, its to keep the boat upright and floating level rather then sinking like a stone.

The problem is letting water sit for a long time below decks, not the foam itself really. Stored bow high, well covered w the plug out will allow any water that gets below decks to get out or dry rather then create a problem over a very long extended period.

Read thru some of the other topics. There are several types of plywood being used and several good methods to seal any wood used anywhere on the boat.

Pour in foam gets a bad rep, but IMO, its really not the problem, poor attention to detail and lack of proper maintenance that allows water to remain under the deck is the problem.

4X8 blue or pink rigid insulation panels are about equal per SqFt of foam as the 2lb pour in foam and can be cut to fit standing on edge or laid flat. You may want to get 2 different thicknesses for either method to maximize the amount you can get below decks.

 

[Watermann]

I see your thread made it to channel Tin, all tin all the time!

So you're in the what should I do stage, I've been there a couple times. My advice would be to not use a boat with 40+ year old plywood decks and transom. The old styrofoam needs tossed in the garbage in favor of the new HD foam board. Ply and foam are pretty cheap investments to go into a boat that I'm assuming your going to have for years to come. My SeaNymph had a very solid transom too but the ply being made in 1977 was removed anyway and found to be delaminating slowly but surely it was failing. SC factory transoms of the 60's and 70's aren't sealed either rather just a single coat of white primer looking paint. Then there's a the galvanic corrosion that will have surely set in on the inside of the transom skin that should be removed and the pitting repaired.

Yah all that's some work alright but compare the price of a new boat or even one that's 10 years old to your Holly and the materials needed. I love seeing these old boats made better than new once again. I do realize not everybody has the time or desire to do total restorations but decks and transoms are must replace structures.

 

[dozerII]

Welcome to the Starmada, My In The Red Holiday is almost a twin to yours other than the engine set up. What all my fellow Stamadians are offering for advice comes from considerable experence from a large number of Guys and Gals who have rebuilt and documented these rebuilds on this site. When your dealing with a 40 plus year old boat there can be a lot of surprises hiding under seemingly good deck plywood. Chewed up white styro-foam is only one of them. You want to be able to inspect for loose rivets, cracks in ribs and stringers, corrosion, and clean out the carp in the limber holes. If your ply decking is in good usable condition you could just install a second layer of ply on the underside where you want your pedistal seats to support them, 1/2 inch by it self will not hold a pedistal with anyone over 120lbs on rough water for very long. Flotation foam is very important to make sure everyone has something to hang onto in the event you get swamped, a boat floating at the surface is better than one at the bottom. I have always used 5/8 good one side fir ply in all my rebuilds and found it to be a great comprimise between the fit problems with 3/4 and the flimsiness of 1/2. Always sealed with 3-4 coats of good quality Spar Varnish, you can use epoxy but have to remember any where the sun can get at it it has to be protected with a coat of something else.

 

[badbowtie]

Well I am going to pull the floor tomorrow and Saturday morning to foam under it. I am going to buy pink or blue foam in 2" and 1.5" How many sheets should I buy of both. Also I guess I have to use the blue or pink the white will not work correct. Also from what I have found I see the dash is almost impossible to remove and I did scrape all the foam and torn vinyl of it. Has anybody just painted it with a stain or something to just seal it up and leave it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Yes, you are correct, not the styro white foam

You are also right about the dash. SC suspended it from the rafters and built the boat around it... Perhaps thats not accurate, but they are put on before the bow deck cover, so it is hard to remove.

 

[BWR1953]

I could only get the 3/4" pink foam around here and used five 4x8 sheets for my 16' Kingfisher. I wrapped the sections towards the stern with gasoline proof trash bags as well.

Looked like this:

 

[badbowtie]

Well maybe I will get one 2" and one 1-1/2 pink board in the morning. I really hate two buy 4 sheets of 3/4 because of how solid all my sheets are. I am really thinking about were ever I would mount seats go ahead and glue and screw some 1/2 squares under the floor were I will mount pedastals at. Does that sound like a plan that will work or am I going to be sorry.