Starmada Testing Laboratories

[HarryO60]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Testing is a great idea the more data the better. The noodle test could be done with fishing weights attached to fish hooks so the load is spread along the length of the noodle.

As far as water testing various coatings on wood Doc Epoxy at progressive epoxy.com has a lot of data on plywood coated with epoxy. All epoxies are UV sensitive and must be top coated if exposed to sunlight or they will break down, becoming yellowed and brittle.

 

[Bwana Don]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Yeah I need to read more into that site. I got the ideas from his Epoxy's that more than 1 layer is required, 2 would be advisable and for the over engineering type in me.

I will probably push for 3 layers. First layer thinned for absorption and the 2nd, 3rd layers a bit thicker. All layers applied within 20 hours of each other to create that kind of bond that makes you feel good inside.
Finally a coat of gray pant on the bottom of my deck. Why? Because I don't want life to thrive there in any form! A baron waste land of under deck lifelessness!

I don't think epoxy manufacturers like you to thin out the epoxy. I did three coats of epoxy, followed by three coats of spar varnish on the rowboats seats. Epoxy waterproofs and spar uv protects. Best of both. If your wood never sees uv then I would probably omit the varnish.

Thinning epoxy is a hot topic. Check with the manufacturer.

 

[barato2]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

i can already see another topic for testing: epoxy penetration and water resistance.

the epoxy mfgrs, the Iboats composites guru, EZ, and Don all think thinning epoxy much is a bad idea. against this array of expertise, i disagree and continue to thin my resin/hardener mix by about 40% with xylene. hey, every village needs an idiot.

i don't care about strength, just about wicking as much resin as possible into the outer laters of the wood til all the air space between (and inside) the cellulose fibers is filled with resin. with transom braced on edge so the resin could "pool" on the end grain til it was absorbed,

heavily thinnned epoxy and careful brush technique, i was able to get 4 oz of mx into one side edge of my transom. when i did the dash facade panels in 1/8" oak plywood, i actually put so much on that the air was bubbling out and it eventually oozed all the way through and dripped out the bottom. ya think that piece of wood is going to absorb much water?

so anyway, i'm going to try to do some samples of plywood with various dilutions of epoxy and then test em for water absorption and cut em to see how far the resin penetrated. this will not be any time soon but it's a test we should run.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

I read on a wood boat site that thin was in and I believe them

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Fresh from the Starmada Testing Lab - Battle Pool Noodles



We've been talking about the use of pool noodles for flotation in our tinnies forever. A little while back and earlier in this thread some posts were made about tossing an anchor in a pool with noodles to see what happened. Some have said one noodle will support 100 or 200 pounds according to noodle labels. Today I was out and about and saw a Dollar General in beautiful downtown Canton, GA. I checked my pocket change. low and behold, I had enough for 2 noodles. So $2.12 later I was in possession of 2 nice blue noodles. The label had no mention of flotation support, but they are the same as the smaller ones used by many about 2 inches in diameter with a hole in the center. The noodle:



The label - these aren't made in a third world country, but right in the USA - Los Angeles to be exact. For ages 6 and above - I barely qualify:



To be continued

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Battle Pool Noodles continued

The test weight - a four pound anchor:





Preparation. If you noticed I left the anchor line attached and I cut the noodle into four almost equal sized lengths on the theory that a whole noodle should float 100 pounds minimum and a quarter noodle should hold up 25 pounds:



I fit the four mini noodles into the anchor and tossed it into a pool. Coming up - the results.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Battle Pool Noodles - Results

With four lengths of noodle in the four pound anchor:



Hey, proof that one pool noodle will float a four pound anchor. Things are looking up. Lets try three pieces:



So far, so good. Down to two pieces coming up next.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Sink.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Battle Pool Noodle - Results Part two


Here's two chunks:



The top of the anchor is barely above water, but still suspended. OK, going for broke with one piece:



Oops - My four pound anchor is sitting on the bottom of the pool in five feet of water with theoretically 25 pounds of flotation.

I don't think one pool noodle will hold up 10 pounds let alone 100 pounds. I wish I had some other weight to to use, but in my opinion:

In conclusion:

 

[lakelover]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Boy, that's kinda cheaky-get me all excited, then

To be continued

Edit: Even though you posted these last night, when I looked this morning just after waking up my computer, only your first post was visible. As soon as I posted this, I can now see the rest. Three cheers for instant gratification!!

 

[lakelover]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Great test. As someone stated in elsewhere, those ratings, when they are there, probably assume holding up a person who already has buoyancy. Thanks for testing & busting!

So based on your test, even with my pink insulation and noodles, I would probably sink! The only other things in my boat that have any buoyancy are the plywood in the floor, the boards under the front deck and the dashboard! And maybe the plastic skeleton pieces in the seats.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

This isn't the first unfortunate test result for noodles. I'm no longer much of a proponent of them. I believe the extruded foam board performs much better. It would be great if GA_B could duplicate his test with some board pieces. I think foam board under the deck and also behind the side panels and perhaps even under the gunnels would be the about the best one could do when restoring a tinny apart from pourable foam filling everything which I want no parts of.

 

[lakelover]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

This isn't the first unfortunate test result for noodles. I'm no longer much of a proponent of them. I believe the extruded foam board performs much better. It would be great if GA_B could duplicate his test with some board pieces. I think foam board under the deck and also behind the side panels and perhaps even under the gunnels would be the about the best one could do when restoring a tinny apart from pourable foam filling everything which I want no parts of.

I agree with this. I put the pink board everywhere I could possibly fit it in, and only used the noodles to fill in the spaces that were left. I've looked at the formulas and figures for flotation, but have to admit that I don't really completely understand them. I don't think I could possibly fit in what I would really need, but I have way more than Starcraft originally put in. Still gotta wonder though, hope I don't ever need to find out.

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Why dont we just test a boat?

Back it into the lake and float if off the trailer but leave it over the submerged trailer then put the bilge pump on the outside of the boat for a while. If it sinks it should rest back on the trailer. Slowly pull the boat and trailer out as it drains. I'd take the engine and other pricey things off first and replace them with weight. A nearly completed boat would be a better candidate. Can we test somehow with a glasser? Then if all fails there is no loss.

I wouldn't advise trying this at a busy ramp.

 

[starcrafter65]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

I agree with this. I put the pink board everywhere I could possibly fit it in, and only used the noodles to fill in the spaces that were left. I've looked at the formulas and figures for flotation, but have to admit that I don't really completely understand them. I don't think I could possibly fit in what I would really need, but I have way more than Starcraft originally put in. Still gotta wonder though, hope I don't ever need to find out.

As a engineer who knows foam - I think your best bet is the EXP - extruded polystyrene - DOW - but I would say this - the most important thing is to make sure the bilge gets dried out. Water wants to go where it isn't and there isn't alot of low density matter that won't eventually accomodate the sweet nothings that water manages to say....

I did not put any flotation in

BTW: NEVER put white EPS in - that is like a sponge - and I think noodles might be pretty similar - try leaving a noodle under water for 8-12 hours and see what it feels like - I would be interested to know

 

[lakelover]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

I think your best bet is the EXP - extruded polystyrene - DOW -

Does that have the Pink Panther on it by any chance?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Does that have the Pink Panther on it by any chance?

No but Owens Corning pink board, Dow blue board, and the green board from Lowes that I just did my basement with......all the same stuff. Extruded polystyrene.

Noodles are polyethylene and won't absorb water. They will break down with UV though. Not an issue under our decks.

 

[InMotion]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

Couple of first hand notes --- a couple of years ago 1 our noodles the kids (and adults) use to float around on floated away. We found it the next year, having floated all year (except in the winter where of course it was frozen in ice!). After a clean-up, we used it and still to this day. It did not appear to have absorbed any water... for what it's worth...

Also, when I put the noodles and foamular in the my Jupiter, I left about an 1 1/2 to 2" at the bottom by putting a piece of foamular running the length of the boat between the two stringers. I figured when water gets in there (at some point it will!!), it will drain and dry quickly and thoroughly. Yes, there is a little less bouyancy... but I figure, the drainage is worth it. My 2.1 cents...

Lovin' the testing!!!

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

What do they put in PFDs and aren't they tested? I want to say its polyethelene, not like the good old days when they used a plastic bag full of feathers under orange canvas.:facepalm: Shoot, now Jason will probably try it. Sorry bud...Couldn't resist.

Drainage seems to be the universally accepted approach, no matter what we use for flotation.

 

[TundraRocks]

Re: Starmada Testing Laboratories

I have a couple of Type II PFD's that I pulled off the side of the road this week. The clips were busted off, so I'll take the foam out and dunk one in a bucket of water for 8 hours and post the results.