Starter and Outdrive problems related? PLEASE HELP!

[redmen62]

Hi everyone,

It's been a bit since I've been around... which I suppose is a good thing, that means nothing has gone wrong! Until last weekend that is... I'll try to keep it brief but get it all in

Put the big boat (3 Regal 277 w/ twin Merc 228s (305, 4bbl carb) and Alpha 1 drives) in last Friday and it ran great on a quick ride from the launch to the slip. Went out again on Sunday for a Mother's Day lunch cruise (35ish mi round trip) 30mph cruse up and about 1/2mi outside the breakwater on the way back a metallic rattling type sound from the port engine caught my ear, think rocks in a coffee can. Threw the throttles down, scanned the gauges (all looked normal) and killed the engines.. tried to start it, and it wouldn't even crank. Limped back on the stbd, and the dock brain trust got together... someone suggested the starter, so I gave it the old "hammer test", after 3 love taps it fired right up, but still had the sound. My thought was the starter is 33yrs old, it took a crap and somehow the bendix engaged and was mashing on the fly wheel after it started and is running. Replaced the starter today (kind of interesting if you're a normal to big sized guy), fires right up runs great with no rattling noise... boom diagnosis confirmed! Went to go for a quick test run at speed, well now the port engine won't ****. Am I missing something here? Checked the neutral safety switch, seems fine (eng won't crank in gear, and "button" on side of shifter is engaging/disengaging), shift cable linkage on the engine is moving, shift cable from engine linkage on the engine to the outdrive (through transom and boot/bellows)

Is there a reason I'm just missing here? It seems WAY too coincidental that I have 2 major system failures back to back like this

No clue if it's even remotely related, but the port tach was intermittently not registering last week also... shook the wiring under dash and that seemed to fix it. Chalked that up to running cables for new GPS

Thanks for the help!

 

[JoLin]

Hi everyone,
Went to go for a quick test run at speed, well now the port engine won't ****. Am I missing something here? Checked the neutral safety switch, seems fine (eng won't crank in gear, and "button" on side of shifter is engaging/disengaging), shift cable linkage on the engine is moving, shift cable from engine linkage on the engine to the outdrive (through transom and boot/bellows)

Is there a reason I'm just missing here? It seems WAY too coincidental that I have 2 major system failures back to back like this

Sorry, the port engine won't.... what? No sound at all when you turn the key? Solenoid clicks but starter won't spin? Starter spins but engine won't fire?

Offhand, I'd say there's a good chance that it is coincidental. And, you don't know if the port engine problem is a major failure. Could be a loose or corroded starter-related connection. Treat the 2 failures as separate issues and troubleshoot your port engine problem accordingly until you know better. Otherwise, you start wasting time going off on tangents. BTDT.

My .02

 

[redmen62]

Sorry, engine wont SHIFT... apparently I forgot the F last night, oops!

The engine starts and runs great after I replaced the starter, it just won't shift into gear when you move the shift into forward or reverse. It revs as if it shifted, but won't engage

 

[Rick Stephens]

Just wondering, can you see your driveshaft out the back of the port engine? Possible it blew a coupler and that was your rattle? Is it turning?

 

[redmen62]

Rick, that's exactly what I'm worried about... I'm going back this week to see if I can get a better look, but i wasn't able to see much of anything back there on Saturday... space and access is really limited.

If that's the problem, is there any way to fix that without pulling the engine? Would the coupler have prevented the engine from cranking after I shut it down after I heard the noise?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Short answers, no and no.

I cannot imagine it preventing a start unless the engine was too hot to run. A blown coupler usually means rapid overheat as there is no cold water supplied to the engine.

Coupler cannot be replaced without engine pull.


You might use a cell phone video camera to see the drive shaft. Straight down usually works well. If you are in the water, put it in gear and see what the prop does.

 

[redmen62]

I'll see what I can do with my phone tomorrow. It didn't overheat, and if memory serves it was running at normal operating temp (175-180) last weekend after installing the new starter. I'll follow up tomorrow

Would there be enough suction from the raw water pump on the engine to get enough cold water to keep the engine temp down? I'm on Lake MI, so the water is still about 53deg, so it wouldn't take much fresh water to keep the temp down

 

[Rick Stephens]

Would there be enough suction from the raw water pump on the engine to get enough cold water to keep the engine temp down?

No suction at all. The engine water pump is pure centrifugal, It can draw no water that isn't pumped there by the outdrive pump. So that probably is not what your problem is.

Hmm, this boat is sitting in a berth, you might try disconnecting the lower shift cable at the linkage and with the engine running push and pull the drive into and out of gear. You are kind of in a tough spot with that big a boat. Cost a fortune to put in and pull out to work on anything. Anything you can check in the slip is money in the bank.

 

[redmen62]

I got my big mellon head back and took a look tonight... definitely looks like the shaft isn't spinning. Ran both engines for the same amount of time tonight, port heated up, starboard didn't hardly move the needle. Looks for sure like I lost the coupler

Thankfully I have a trailer and got myself a new truck this spring... Looks like I'll be trying to find someone with an overhead lift of some sort to the engine out. Gives me an opportunity to do a good bilge cleaning right?

 

[JoLin]

Gives me an opportunity to do a good bilge cleaning right?

Every cloud has a silver lining. If you can't look at it that way, you shouldn't own a boat because there are so many freakin... clouds. :facepalm:

(I'm due to launch next week and I'm sweating it. Replaced all the bellows and water hoses on both outdrives (first time DIYing that job) and I'm scared to death something will leak)