Starter brushes

[tg3690]

First time tearing into a starter.....wanted to check condition of the internals, especially the brushes....and to see how dirty it was inside. Other than some carbon dust it looked pretty good. Need an opinion on condition of the brushes in attached photo. Look ok? Need replacing? Thanks.

 

[Nordin]

I do not know the length of the brushes when new but yours seams to be able to work well for some years more.
Maybe there is a minimum of the length in the service manual, do not have it for sure in my mind.
In my opinion it is time to change them when the length is less then 25-30% of a new brush.
It is important that the commutator is clean, has a smooth surface and the spring load of the brush is enough not to make an arc at the commutator.

 

[jerryjerry05]

They look OK!!
The springs should all be the same length.
If they vary in length, that usually means the starter
has gotten hot and they need replacing.
Is this the starter from your 78/85hp? It doesn't
look like anything I've seen in the Chrysler/Forces???

 

[The Force power]

As Nordin said;
"It is important that the commutator is clean, has a smooth surface and the spring load of the brush is enough not to make an arc at the commutator"

Meaning; make sure the surface that the brushes ride on are clean/smooth
Do NOT use sand-paper of any grid! use crocus-cloth if necessary
In my opinion the worn down but if you stretch the spring a bit, you will ensure a good tied contact to avoid arcing.
have fun putting it back together lol

 

[dingbat]

Been in electronics repair business for years.
Learned two things.....1. don’t fix something that isn’t broken.....2.if your at the point that the unit needs disassembled for repair or inspection, replace all consumable components in the process.
If not, changes of the unit coming back in for repair under warranty is high

 

[tg3690]

I do not know the length of the brushes when new but yours seams to be able to work well for some years more.
Maybe there is a minimum of the length in the service manual, do not have it for sure in my mind.
In my opinion it is time to change them when the length is less then 25-30% of a new brush.
It is important that the commutator is clean, has a smooth surface and the spring load of the brush is enough not to make an arc at the commutator.

Thank you sir.....didn't see any mention of minimum length in my manuals. Figured I would post a pic and see what yall thought about them.

 

[tg3690]

They look OK!!
The springs should all be the same length.
If they vary in length, that usually means the starter
has gotten hot and they need replacing.
Is this the starter from your 78/85hp? It doesn't
look like anything I've seen in the Chrysler/Forces???

Thanks Jerry....the springs were all the same length, dry, clean, and not discolored. AFAIK...this is the original starter....still has the Chrysler/Prestolite sticker on it. Included a couple of pics.

 

[tg3690]

As Nordin said;
"It is important that the commutator is clean, has a smooth surface and the spring load of the brush is enough not to make an arc at the commutator"

Meaning; make sure the surface that the brushes ride on are clean/smooth
Do NOT use sand-paper of any grid! use crocus-cloth if necessary
In my opinion the worn down but if you stretch the spring a bit, you will ensure a good tied contact to avoid arcing.
have fun putting it back together lol

Thanks Force power.....got it back together on the first try, used some tiny tie wraps to hold the brushes in, pushed the commutator through and the wraps came off by themselves. Did not use any sand paper, just wiped it off with a clean rag and used compressed air. Commutator was shiny, smooth, and clean. Put a dab of all purpose marine grease on the 2 bushings and reassembled. Waiting for a new nylon lock nut for the bendix and a new starter solenoid....then see how it works.

 

[tg3690]

Been in electronics repair business for years.
Learned two things.....1. don’t fix something that isn’t broken.....2.if your at the point that the unit needs disassembled for repair or inspection, replace all consumable components in the process.
If not, changes of the unit coming back in for repair under warranty is high

Appreciate your input dingbat.....very good advice. Took the starter off to check the positive terminal connection on the back, and to get to the main engine ground connection....much easier with the starter removed. Since I had it off, and it's 42 years old, might be a good time to have it checked out. Called several starter/alt repair shops.....as soon as I said "Chrysler" you could tell they didn't want to mess with it. "That's an antique" or "Just buy a new starter". If there is ONE thing I have learned about owing a Chrysler outboard, it's that you are pretty much on your own. I would have replaced the brushes since I was right there, but one of the sets has to be either brazed or spot welded to the body.....not simply bolted on. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do either, so I decided to get opinions on this forum to see if they were still serviceable. Not ideal for sure, but sometimes you have to improvise, adapt, and overcome! Lol

 

[The Force power]

Appreciate your input dingbat.....very good advice. Took the starter off to check the positive terminal connection on the back, and to get to the main engine ground connection....much easier with the starter removed. Since I had it off, and it's 42 years old, might be a good time to have it checked out. Called several starter/alt repair shops.....as soon as I said "Chrysler" you could tell they didn't want to mess with it. "That's an antique" or "Just buy a new starter". If there is ONE thing I have learned about owing a Chrysler outboard, it's that you are pretty much on your own. I would have replaced the brushes since I was right there, but one of the sets has to be either brazed or spot welded to the body.....not simply bolted on. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do either, so I decided to get opinions on this forum to see if they were still serviceable. Not ideal for sure, but sometimes you have to improvise, adapt, and overcome! Lol

as long as the brushes are long enough so they don't come out and bind-up; you're good
I have taken hundreds of starters apart and they very seldom are scrap amazing how long they can last on an outboard

 

[The Force power]

Thanks Jerry....the springs were all the same length, dry, clean, and not discolored. AFAIK...this is the original starter....still has the Chrysler/Prestolite sticker on it. Included a couple of pics.

Nice fancy rectifier also regulator?

 

[tg3690]

Nice fancy rectifier also regulator?

Correct! Figured somebody would notice that. Lol. In the Chrysler Force FAQ sticky there is a thread about replacing the original rectifier with one of these voltage regulator/rectifier units if you were having high voltage problems. I was seeing 16.5 volts at idle and 18+ at higher rpms. Not good for $1000 GPS/sonar units and other electronics. Also the reason not to use a maintenance free battery. Now the voltage stays around 14 volts at all rpms, like a car. https://www.mfgsupply.com/media/cat...adb87a261db73e07c2de8fe883/0/1/01-090-1_3.jpg

 

[tg3690]

"Is this the starter from your 78/85hp? It doesn't
look like anything I've seen in the Chrysler/Forces???"
Jerry.....mine is exactly the same as the one shown in the diagram for my model #.

 

[jerryjerry05]

I just haven't seen one like this.
Now I have!!!
Old dog, new tricks!!!

 

[The Force power]

Correct! Figured somebody would notice that. Lol. In the Chrysler Force FAQ sticky there is a thread about replacing the original rectifier with one of these voltage regulator/rectifier units if you were having high voltage problems. I was seeing 16.5 volts at idle and 18+ at higher rpms. Not good for $1000 GPS/sonar units and other electronics. Also the reason not to use a maintenance free battery. Now the voltage stays around 14 volts at all rpms, like a car. https://www.mfgsupply.com/media/cat...adb87a261db73e07c2de8fe883/0/1/01-090-1_3.jpg

Yeah I started doing that with my '73'75'79 Merc. and started using a rectifier/ voltage-reg. for ride-on mowers.
Before that I used to keep all the lights on, to keep the voltage from creeping up that high lol

 

[The Force power]

If there is ONE thing I have learned about owing a Chrysler outboard, it's that you are pretty much on your own.

That was I thought when I started with my old Mercs. but you're not on your own!
This site/forum has given me more valuable advise, than you could of paid for at (most) shops and lets not forget the encouragement to do it yourself

The right Manual & the right tools and you're halfway there. lol

 

[tg3690]

That was I thought when I started with my old Mercs. but you're not on your own!
This site/forum has given me more valuable advise, than you could of paid for at (most) shops and lets not forget the encouragement to do it yourself

The right Manual & the right tools and you're halfway there. lol

You are correct again! I meant that getting professional work done by a shop is almost nonexistent. This forum does a great job filling the void, and besides, I would rather do it myself anyway.

 

[The Force power]

You are correct again! I meant that getting professional work done by a shop is almost nonexistent. This forum does a great job filling the void, and besides, I would rather do it myself anyway.

I know what you meant lol and yes I prefer to do things myself

 

[tg3690]

Well it looks like my starter disassembly and cleaning, along with installing a new OEM NOS starter solenoid fixed the issue I was having. Before, when turning the key to start, sometimes nothing would happen, would have to turn the key off and on several times to activate the starter. This problem had been going on for some time, and I replaced the ignition switch recently which didn't make a difference. Pretty sure the old original solenoid was the problem but wanted to take a look at the starter anyway. Also cleaned all battery and engine electrical connections/grounds. Works fine now.