Starting problems

[Don S]

Re: Starting problems

The fact remains. You keep saying that EVERYTHING is ok and it all has been checked. Hate to be the one to tell you this, but if everything was ok, the starter would be working.
Something is wrong, tested wrong, looked at and assumed it was good, or whatever, but the truth is. SOMETHING is wrong, and only you can see your entire system, we can't, all we can go on is what you say.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

I know what youre saying and EVERYTHING is NOT ok. I realize Im missing something and its frustrating because I am the only one that can see it, just like you said. I think my next move is to check the battery myself, like you suggested, while running a jumper on the starter.

 

[Raphenry]

Re: Starting problems

novice here.... is there any way an ESA could be the culprit, my 86 is having same issue. Also my starter says Summit Racing, prolly not a marine one?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starting problems

So , "they" tested the starter not you, could you have installed the wire for the solenoid on the wrong
small lug. It shoud go to the lug closest to the block

concerning the pic posted, the heavy wires go to the batter feed and starter solenoid,
the yellow with the srtipe comes from the harness, what is the other small wire, it shoud go to ground??

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

Actually Bt Doctur, you have a very good point about the wires. First, though, "they" did test the starter but I was standing there and when they hit the switch, the starter gear came out and spun. Now, about the wires: According to Don S's troubleshooting pics, the purple and yellow wire on the slave solenoid "should" be the ground. However, that wire was always connected to the coil and the slave solenoid was grounded by mounting it to the exhaust manifold or, as I did here, run a ground to the battery. This set up has was always like that since I purchased the boat and it always started and ran (sort of) perfectly.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Starting problems

novice here.... is there any way an ESA could be the culprit, my 86 is having same issue. Also my starter says Summit Racing, prolly not a marine one?

Howdy,

And welcome to iBoats........



1. no. Mercruiser doesn't use an ESA. It's in no way connected to the starting circuit.

2. It's mo-better if you start your own thread with your question instead of tagging along on someone else's thread.........mainly because you may not get your question answered at all!


Todd,


Have you operated the starter by directly powering the solenoid back at the engine?

If you have and it works, then it's not the starter, or solenoid. It may be related to the neutral-safety switch (or wiring in between)





Cheers,


Rick

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starting problems

That powers the coil giving it full voltage during the start cycle.It normally comes off the "I" post of the starters mounted solenoid.Quick test of battery, starter, cable and connections. take a jumper from the + post of the battery and touch it to the "S" post on the starter mounted solenoid.NOT THE SLAVE
starter should operate and spin the motor, if not its a battery/ starter/ cable/ cable connection problem.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

Hey Rick, thats what I thought I was doing when I hooked up the jumper wires directly to the starter solenoid and nothing happened. Is there another way?

 

[Don S]

Re: Starting problems

While your slave solenoid is not the correct one, it will work the way you have it wired. The purple/yellow wire should be hooked to the starter on the R terminal shown in BT's picture above.
Not using the correct solenoid for a slave solenoid could change how the tests in my How to turns out.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

While your slave solenoid is not the correct one, it will work way you have it wired. The purple/yellow wire should be hooked to the starter on the R terminal shown in BT's picture above.
Not using the correct solenoid for a slave solenoid could change how the tests in my How to turns out.

Ok, Im going to have to check this out during the daylight hours tomorrow because none of this is making sense right now. Nothing is connected to the "R" post on the starter solenoid and the purple/yellow wire that is on the "I" post of the solenoid has been connected to the "+" side of the coil. This has been the set up since Ive had the boat (5 years) and havent had any issues.

Don S,
Do you happen to have a part number for the correct slave solenoid? I think I may start from scratch tomorrow and do the tests all over again.....starting with the battery load test

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Starting problems

Hey Rick, thats what I thought I was doing when I hooked up the jumper wires directly to the starter solenoid and nothing happened. Is there another way?

If you're doing that, you should see right away if it will work.


If it doesn't then either you're connecting it wrong or the solenoid is defective

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starting problems

I see a problem, in your pic where do the 2 large wires come from / go to?
The yellow with red stripe comes from the key switch , the purple with the stripe goes to the + side of the coil. this will work to power the coil as Don said. What do the other 2 do??
one should have a constant 12v applied and the other one should go to the "S" lug at the starter mounted solenoid.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

I see a problem, in your pic where do the 2 large wires come from / go to?
The yellow with red stripe comes from the key switch , the purple with the stripe goes to the + side of the coil. this will work to power the coil as Don said. What do the other 2 do??
one should have a constant 12v applied and the other one should go to the "S" lug at the starter mounted solenoid.

The yellow/red wire on the "S" terminal of the slave solenoid goes to the small post of the starter solenoid that is closest to the block. The purple wire goes to the + terminal of the coil. The large wire on the top post of the slave solenoid goes to the + terminal of the starter solenoid that is also where the + wire from the battery is connected. The second large wire on the slave solenoid diappears into the wiring harness.

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

If you're doing that, you should see right away if it will work.


If it doesn't then either you're connecting it wrong or the solenoid is defective

Rick,
Nothing happened when I tried that. Nothing at all. Im actually searching for wiring diagrams right now to see if that is the problem

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starting problems

"The yellow/red wire on the "S" terminal of the slave solenoid goes to the small post of the starter solenoid "
Wrong, that wire should be coming from your key switch to operate the slave in your picture.the other big wire should be going to the S post on the starters solenoid.The big wire going into the harness should have 12v on it.
check page 4D-2 this link
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Techbk/96/96HGD4.PDF

 

[Raystownboater]

Re: Starting problems

"The yellow/red wire on the "S" terminal of the slave solenoid goes to the small post of the starter solenoid "
Wrong, that wire should be coming from your key switch to operate the slave in your picture.the other big wire should be going to the S post on the starters solenoid.The big wire going into the harness should have 12v on it.

WOW! ok, I just had to run out and check whats connected where. If you look at the picture of the slave solenoid I posted, the top heavy guage wire runs into the wiring harness and is powered as soon as the key is turned on. The bottom heavy guage wire runs to the "S" post on the starter and gets powered when you turn the key to start. The purple wire goes to the + terminal on the coil and I just forgot where the yellow/red small wire on the "s" post of the slave solenoid went to

 

[Maxx99]

Re: Starting problems

just a thought, but if you jumped the starter solenoid right at the starter it should have enegaged. so i would try this. put a pair of jumper cables on the ground post of the battery and hook it to the engine block. then jump the starter solenoid as you did before and see if that works. sounds like the engine might not be grounded.

 

[mnm01]

Re: Starting problems

Hey yorkboater,you could power s terminal(which engages starter drive) test for power at terminal going from solenoid into starter motor casing,if powered starter is done.if no power solenoid is defective.Either way put a new/rebuilt starter in. peace of mind.if power and grounds check out as you say,full 12v at starter,engine not seized.nothing left. dont spin your head too hard or you'll go in circles.cheers ps use only marine quality parts and hardware. be safe

 

[Don S]

Re: Starting problems

Rick,
Nothing happened when I tried that. Nothing at all. Im actually searching for wiring diagrams right now to see if that is the problem

I can get you the right diagram, and a link to the OEM service manual, there are a bunch of wiring diagrams for the 228, so need to know 2 things.
1. Did your engine originally have a points type distributor, or is it Thunderbolt IV.
2. Do you have the square 90A block fuse on the starter? Looks like this.

If you do have that fuse, do you by any chance have the battery cable attached to the nut and washer shown.

PS: If you have an engine that came with a points type distributor originally, then you do have the proper type of solenoid.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Starting problems

Do you happen to have a part number for the correct slave solenoid?

Here ya go, #37 here : http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...desc=WIRING+HARNESS+AND+ELECTRICAL+COMPONENTS

Just so you understand what is going on here: The purpose of the slave solenoid (ss) is to decrease the amount of current going through the ignition key switch terminals when you start the engine. Hit start and a small +12v current goes from the switch to the small terminal of the ss causes the ss to close. You have 2 large terminals on the ss, one has +12v and the other goes to the s terminal of the starter. When the ss closes it sends a larger current (than the ignition switch) to the starter solenoid, causing it to close and provide high current for the starter motor. That is all it does, so you can bypass it completely with your remote starter switch to test the starter alone.
There should be 12v all the time on one large terminal of the ss and 12v on the other (to the starter) only while the ignition switch is in the start position. Good luck.