Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

According to the specs for this epoxy, it has a working time of 30 minutes so I have some time to work with it. I figure I can use any excess to fill in and create filets at the ends and base of the transom.

Also is it a good idea to coat the wood on the new transom with epoxy prior to gluing with the PB mixture? I am going to run some glass cloth all across the top as a first step to ensure that integrity in the future. I never want to do this again.

I'm leaning towards 1 gallon but I'm sure that someone who's been here before can give a better rough estimate of what they needed.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

30min is QUICK kicking epoxy. Even if you mix 1gal in a 5gal container, you still might not get 30min work time.

Mix 1gal & have at least 2 maybe 3 quarts measured, prepped, & on standby so they are ready to be mixed asap if needed (PB fillers & hardener too). Having someone help w/ this is extremely helpful.

Practice setting the transom & clamps several times to get a feel for how it'll go. Allows you to work out where to set everything & how to setup your workspace to minimize getting the transom installed poorly. Particularly the clamps & clamping system you have planned.

If you can flip the cap & work on the underside, it might be a good place to use 'excess' epoxy PB so that it doesn't go to waste. Tapping over the exterior side of any areas of the hull that were over-ground, weak, cracked, damaged etc would be another. For fillets around the transom would be the 1st, best place to use it, though ensuring adequate coverage on the transom usually provides plenty of squeeze out for those fillets.

Yes, peanut butter consistency, no sag or running.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Well, I glued the transom together last night and coated the back side. It all went pretty well as the epoxy was very workable. Actually more workable than I expected.

On the transom, I covered existing holes with some 6oz. cloth. I don't want the PB to be oozing out of holes all over the back of the transom. Inside is okay, but not out the back. The cloth sucked up the epoxy very easily. I suspect 7801 will be a little harder. I know that WOG said that you can get by with less epoxy. Do epoxy resins saturate cloth easier that polyester resins?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

On another note. I've thought about getting cheap on flotation. Many of my bulkhead chambers that need foam have enough room for 2 liter bottles. With caps on, those things will last for many years. I'm thinking of putting some in each compartment and using a false deck technique. Has anyone tried that before?

I wouldn't go the pop bottle route... but you supplement the pour in foam with the polystyrene sheet foam.

Cut the sheet foam pieces 2" smaller all the way around than your bulkhead compartment, use a small amount of expanding foam to bond the sheet foam to the hull. Pour the expanding foam in first then put the slab of sheet foam on top of it immediately after and weight it down so the expanding foam will push out horizontally filling any voids between the hull and the sheet foam. You can stack more pieces of sheet foam on top of the first one by using the same method. Leave 2" of room between the top piece of sheet foam and the top of the bulkhead/stringer. When you do the false deck foam pour you will just be pouring 2" around the side and on the top of the sheet foam.

The sheet foam will be rigid and solid and you'll have the support you need for the deck and hull without any voids and the sheet foam "filler" will lessen the cost of the expanding foam.

. Do epoxy resins saturate cloth easier that polyester resins?

I don't know about easier, but I do know some epoxy resins are too thick for doing layups and you should use a good thin epoxy for this. I've found that the USComposites 635 3:1 thin epoxy penetrates very well.

 

[lokonn]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

You fiberglass guys are crazy! Following and learning but hope to God I don't ever fall to the siren song of fiberglass boats. Your work is impressive!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I am not a "fiberglass guy" by choice but more by poor decision.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I am not a "fiberglass guy" by choice but more by poor decision.

Well, you did choose to own a fiberglass boat.

J/K, it's all good!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

DAY 14!

Yes. It has been 14 days of hot, itchy and oftentimes miserable dirty work.

Tonight, the new transom has been placed into the boat!

Here it is before it was put into place. Last night I coated the side that would face the existing fiberglass of the transom wall with epoxy. I had extra epoxy mixed so I figured what the heck.

And the transom spot before placement.

When I started to mix up the PB mix, I found that

2 Qts epoxy resin
+ 2 Qts Cabsil
<> 4 Qts PB

I mixed the Cabosil and the resin first. I figured that would be the hard part and that adding hardener would be quicker and give me a bit more working time. Well, the resin and Cabosil wasn't as thick as I'd have expected. So on a whim, I added some 1/4" cut glass and continued mixing. The cut glass mixed in nicely and I added the hardener. Once everything was mixed up nicely, I went to work.

Se next post.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

One thing that I found was that the transom was definitely not straight. It had a major bow to it... Note the use of the word "had".

In the transom, there were 3 holes that I definitely planned on using. One was the hole for the live well and front deck cooler overflow and the other 2 were deck drains. Last night, I glassed over every hole including these 3. In the pictures that follow, you will see 3 18" long 1/2" thick all thread rods passing from the inside to the outside. These sucked the bottoms in like you wouldn't believe.

Also note the use of ratchet straps. This is what happens when you allow someone to borrow your heavy bar clamps and they swear that they returned them. #1 rule... Do not loan ANYTHING to ANYONE without a promissory note or substantial deposit.

I certainly hope that these pics make WOG proud.


In these, you will see my efforts to smooth down the "fuzzy" PB mixture that pushed out of the void within. Hairy PB pushed out of all sides. I was very pleased.

When I popped open the Dewars White Label this evening, the outside of the transom was nice and warm.


So 2 weeks after starting this major undertaking, I feel that I have reached the top and am on the downhill slope. I know that there is a lot left to do, but a solid secure transom is the first step to a solid well running trolling machine. Damn this feels good!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

As I wait to get home later today and pull the transom clamps off, I got wondering about the 44 gallon fuel tank and it's compartment. The tank is aluminum and although a bit grungy looking it is in decent shape and I already reworked the sending unit so that I know that it works ok.

Originally, the fuel tank compartment was constructed like this.
- The aft bulkhead did not go all of the way to the deck. It had a gap at the top. I assume this was for ventilation.
- The floor of the compartment had a piece of plywood glassed in to make the floor flat for the tank.
- The tank was sitting on 2 1" pieces of rubber tubing so it really wasn't all sitting on the floor.
- There was no drain in the compartment. Is this a USCG rule?
- 2 2x4's were screwed into the stringers and the fuel tank was bolted into them.

When I rebuild this compartment, I plan on the following:
- Leave some space at the top of the aft bulkhead for a vent; however, it will have a spot in the middle for supporting the deck. I'm thinking 2 3" semicircles on each side.
- I am planning on installing a drain to allow water to flow out of the compartment. Before the demo work, there was no drain and it had quite a bit of water in there. I'll probably put a valve (or use a regular plug) in the bilge so that I can control when it is open.
- I don't want to put a piece of plywood back in for the floor. I want to glass in 3 strips that mimic the bottom of the fuel tank and secure some hose for cushioning like was in there before. There were 2 before and I want to use 3.
- I might still go with some wood blocks for bolting the tank, but I'll probably coat them with epoxy and use some PL to attach them to the stringers. I don't want unsealed holes anywhere in stringers or bulkheads.

Any thoughts or ideas? Advice or criticisms?

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Day 15 of work. I did get PB around the transom so that with a little prep work, I should be able to tab it in today. Once that is done, then I'll be able to start placing stringers! YAY! :joyous:

I had a handful of friends stop over this evening and we managed to flip the cap upside down. I need to do some prep work and also replace all of the wood as it is water logged and rotted. I found that Stratos had used aluminum plates in many places so that the screws would have something to bite into. The bad thing is that they weren't terribly accurate with plate placement in some spots. I can pick up new aluminum easily enough from online metals.

 

[Teamster]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

With the cap off now might be a good time to mount any cleat and rod holder mounts while you can get nuts on the back side,.....

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Good point. Ideally, for the cleats, I'd like to mount a threaded plate in there so that I can pull them off in case I decide to get a new gel coat shot onto the top of the boat. I know that I will easily have another day or two of demolition work ahead of me.

I did get half of the transom tabbed in this morning. One pint of epoxy covered a bit more than half of the glass. The white that you see is the PB fillet that was laid last night and sanded down this morning. Boy is that 1708 fiberglass nice to use. It really sucked up the epoxy and there were few air bubbles to work out. I know that I have a couple of small ones here and there, but the tabbing is rock solid.

I am not real sure about how much I like the epoxy resins that I got from fiberglasssite.com. It is not a matter of strength, but it seems like it is susceptible to amine blush. An area that I did the other evening developed a sticky film. Everyone says to wash it with hot water. When I did that, the stuff on the surface turned a milky color and had the consistency of thick grease.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

What hardener are you using? Slow/medium/fast cure. Epoxy turning milky & a thick grease consistancy when hot water was applied sounds like it didn't (or wasn't yet) cured...

I can't remember which online supplier noted that they carried 2 types of epoxy: non-blushing & blushing, and for some reason I think it also had to do w/ the part B hardener.....

There's a small place in Miami that comes highly recommended by several iboaters for poly supplies, don't know if they carry epoxy resin, but I suspect they do. If you'd like their info, just PM me & I'll shoot it over to you.

SigSaur is working on a tin boat near Knoxville, and may be using epoxy to seal his woodwork. Might drop him a PM for his supplier's info & ask about where he grabbed his wood too. I recall he found good plywood for a decent price....

Nice work so far.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

This is medium cure and is noted for blushing as it hasn't been thinned with any solvents. It was humid the other evening when I did this patch and I've not had any trouble since with the other layups that I did this morning. The glass in the patch is solid, it was just sticky on the surface. The ones that I did this morning cured very well and hard after 3 to 4 hours. I'll have to keep an eye out and avoid working with it if it is too humid out which I suspect might have been the cause.

I'm going to be tabbing in stringers before too much longer. I'll have to cut them to fit the old deck profile of the cap so that everything mates up together nicely. Essentially, the cap will sit on the new deck as shown below. I'll have to make some measurements and cut the stringers accordingly.

In working with polyester resin, I've seen WOG's guide show the use of CSM to tab in the stringers and bulkheads prior to doing the actual glass work. Could 6 ounce cloth be used in place of SCM for tabbing? I have a roll of 8" wide cloth here that I've been thinking of using. Once the stringers and bulkheads are cut and ready to go, they'll all get covered in 1708.

IIRC, stringers and bulkheads get 2 layers of 1708, don't they? I'm working with epoxy rather than Polyester.

I still have to do the inside surface of the transom. Will 2 layers of cloth suffice for it or should I use 1708?

Thanks guys. Off to cut some stringers. I'll check back later before doing the transom.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Progress at last


Here is the first of the 2 main stringers. I will have them bedded in place tomorrow and likely will have them tabbed in place as well. I still have to run some drains from the front of the boat so I don't expect to have the main bulkheads in place until later in the week, but you never know.

I went ahead and covered the transom with 6 ounce fiberglass cloth. It went on very well with only some very slight air bubbles. With the 1708 all around it, it is rock solid. I will likely put another 12" piece of 1708 all around the transom mainly because I believe in overkill in critical areas and I want this transom to always be solid as can be expected.

I used some epoxy and glass on the back area of the stringers where I'll have a drain pipe to get water to flow to the bilge. One of my biggest concerns is providing water a way to get into any of the new wood. I want these stringers and bulkheads to be dry as long as I am still alive.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I've been becoming more proficient at working with this epoxy. You have to keep stirring it as you use it because if it is allowed to sit, it will go off on you. By go off, I mean that it will get hot, bubble, smoke and foam up. It will melt a plastic mixing container. I did run into this issue with large cavities of PB. It is hard as a rock afterwards, but more like closed cell foam

I have every hope of having all of the stringers and bulkhead in place by next Friday. That would make it 3 weeks from cutting open to stringers in place.

I'm going to check with our local boat repair place and see what they will charge to prep the hull and respray the gel coat for me. I know what the materials will cost and I also know the coverage. My hull is less than 180 square feet and I've seen where you can get 60 square feet at 20 mil thickness. It helps to be an informed consumer. If they will give a good price to do the hull, I'll drop it off to them and the start reworking the cap.

Things are coming together and the feeling of hopelessness is going away.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

More progress today. It stinks that I have to work tomorrow.


I glassed in the drain tube from the front most bulkhead. I have another drain for the front bait tank/cooler? left to put in that will run alongside this one.

I bedded in the 2 starboard stringers and tabbed them in place. I used 1 1/2" strips of 1708 as fillet material underneath the 8" cloth. It really evened out the hairy PB that I used to bed in the stringers. There are a few small air bubbles, but nothing that causes any concern. Heck, I sanded out a lot of air bubbles when I was doing the demo work.

I am having a bit of an issue withe my epoxy flashing on me. This is a medium epoxy which is supposed to give 30 mintes of working time. If left in a container for too long, it likes to heat up and of course the heat makes it cure faster which causes more heat which causes it to cure faster. It will eventually foam up and melt the container. If it doesn't flash, I do get a good 30 minutes of working time. But if it heats up, you need to work like crazy to get it down an in place. I am checking with the vendor to see if putting it in a container of ice water will slow it down enough to get the 30 minutes that I need. It is a great epoxy. Hard as can be when cured. I have no doubt that the restoration will be solid as can be.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Mix it in a larger container. That will slow it down a lot.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Another night of slow progress. I got the end pieces for the main stringers cut and one side tabbed into place. I'd run out of Cabosil, so I just did the upper side of each stringer. When the Cabosil comes in, I can force it up under the stringers to fill all of the voids. In the mean time, the stringers are held in place nicely.

I felt that I matched the contour nicely. The OSB is a temporary fit. I will use a much superior piece of wood for the joint between the stringers.

The stringers are all cut about 2" taller than they need to be. Their final height will be determined when I set the cap back on and take some measurements. Once they're at the correct height, I'll cut and install the bulkheads. Oh for a week of extra vacation to work on the boat.