Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Well a late meeting today put me behind a bit more than expected. Once I got home and jumped on it, I managed to get the outer stringers extended and everything mostly tabbed in place. Tomorrow night I will mix up some PB (if UPS gets here early enough) and get it under all of the stringers. Then there will be some more tabbing and the stringers will be in place well enough to get the cap back on and make some measurements for the cap cut down. My son was quite the help tonight and we had no issues with the epoxy. Thursday makes 3 weeks and I'd like to have the stringers in place by that mark.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

An amine blush tip!

The epoxy that I'm using is noted for having a tendency for amine blush. The other morning, I went out to check my handiwork from the evening before. The previous night, the epoxy was cured and hard as a rock and not tacky. Our mornings do get humid but the hull is protected a bit and there was no dew on the inside of it. But, the surface of the epoxy was a bit slimy feeling and I assumed that it was the amine blush. I came in and got a bucket of hot water and a rag and proceeded to wipe down the epoxy. When finished, it was squeaky clean. The blush was gone. I've done it a few days in a row now.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Some questions about glassing in my stringers. I need expert advice on this one.

To date, I have bedded the stringers with hairy PB and tabbed them down with 10 ounce 8" wide cloth that came from a roll. The stringers are not yet cut to their final height but I wanted them to be solid in place and this seemed a good way of securing them while providing a good foundation for the next layer(s).

I am going to be using 1708 biaxial mat. I know that it has CSM and that I don't necessarily need that since I am using epoxy, but does it hurt? It is 17 ounces of biaxial material and 8 ounces of CSM. Hmmm... 17 - 08? I just figured that one out.

Do I need more than one layer? I don't believe that it would only take one layer as it would come out to 25 ounces if the CSM and biaxial weights are measured the same way.

Does each stringer need to be completed end to end or can do a 6 foot stretch and then come back and overlap it with the next piece. My main stringers are 14 feet long and I'm not sure how well I can effectively start at one end and go the other before dealing with curing issues.

On the stringers, can you glass each side from the top down onto the hull and then cap it off back down both sides from the top?

I expect that doing the stringers without bulkheads to interrupt the glass will be more structurally solid

Any thoughts? advice? I need some guidance.

One thing to keep in mind. These stringers are going to be 12 to 13 inches tall for most of the run.
Thanks

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

The 08 in the 1708 is actually 3/4 ounce CSM...
I am not sure if the CSM and the epoxy will work together...one of the epoxy guys will pop in soon...I think it has to do with a starch that is used to hold the CSM together and whether or not the epoxy contains styrene to break it down...or something like that...:noidea:
Yes you can do it in sections, I did, just overlap about 3-6"...
You can go from top down, then cap later...no problemo...
When you are ready to install the bulkheads, just ruff-n-scuff where the tabbing will go on the deck and stringers...

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Thanks for the response G1M. I did find some conflicting information as to the 8 ounces for the 1708. It's hard to keep some of this stuff straight. It makes my head hurt.

I did find this thread as well as others on some other forums. The boat design forum had a good thread about it.
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/epoxy-csm-291358.html

There are theories that the CSM binding agent won't dissolve in epoxy resins. From what I've experienced, the CSM in the 1708 that I picked up loosens up when saturated and appears to be plenty pliable and saturates very well.

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...bout-using-epoxy-resin-1708-cloth-286584.html
BillP had some good comments about the binder in the CSM in 1708 not being the same as in regular CSM.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Tonight was cool and overcast so it became "Rework the cap" night. Got a lot done with it.

All of the screw strips that are glassed in are rotted away and will be replaced. So, a question. What kind of wood is good to use for screw strips?

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

In many parts of my boat, they had 1/8" aluminum backer plates for things like cleats and the deck rail. Since I am looking for alternatives to wood screw strips, it got me thinking about composite solutions. How would composite decking work for replacing the wood and aluminum?

Heck in most places where there is wood on the top rail, the wood is there only for spreading out the load for the aluminum plate. I could easily replace all of that wood with the composite and still put a second layer on there so that the screws would have something to bite into when I put things back together.

Good idea or bad?

 

[Teamster]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Depending on the composite material screws may or may not "bite" it very well,...

Have you thought about bolting the cleats, etc........

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I can get to the back sides of the cleats so they're not much of a concern. There are just other hidden areas that need something durable and very rot resistant.

I found a good chart of wood durability and rot resistance here Boat building lumber and plywood 5

We've got a local wood crafters store that might even have teak. Other options are that I've got some rough cut seasoned black locust that I might even look at using. That wood is almost indestructible and takes ages to rot in the harshest of environments. I've seen standing trees that have been dead for 10 years still have hard wood in the center of them.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Slow going with the rain.

I managed to get the front bait tank/storage/cooler off of the front deck. As I removed the old wood decking, I realized that they used squares of some kind of cedar. The wood was wet and only a little showed signs of rot.

I spent a rather miserable afternoon grinding the underside of the front deck as well as the underside of the entire cap. I've got another day of grinding and sanding before I can start putting much of it back together.

The underside of the front deck.

The ground out area of the main part of the cap.

I was in Lowes looking at their composite decking. Most of it is a durable exterior covering a softer core. Not what I want or need. I then came across a small pile of composite balusters that were marked down for clearance. $2.00 each. I picked one up to bring home to see if it might fit the bill. They are solid and sturdy. Here is an end view.

For testing, I started a screw into it to see if it would mushroom up at all. It did a little bit so I drilled a pilot hole and ran a 1" screw into it. There was no mushrooming of material. I then took a prybar and tried to pry it out. I can pry them out of most wood except for oak and other real hard woods. I think that I'm going to use these for places where I need to run screws. For wider areas, I can glue 2 together and get more than enough coverage for the screws. And I doubt if these will ever decay or water log like the wood that is in there now.

Today was also "Hose Day" !!! We went through and measured all of the hoses that were in the boat. Since the entire underside of the deck will be reworked, I want all new fresh looking hoses and tubing under there. The worst was new 1 1/2" fuel hose. $14.00 + a foot and I felt like I was getting a good deal. Oh well, all will be pristine when it all goes back together!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Working on the cap.

Synthetic blocks in place on front most deck.

Clamps after spreading out the PB. A good layer of PB was put under everything.

The main front deck. I had no way of clamping but I did have some big rocks. I used a teeter totter arrangement under the deck to keep everything as flat as possible.

Here are some of the synthetic blocks over areas where the deck rail and cleats screw down. Before, there was a piece of 1/2" plywood with a 1/8" piece of aluminum glasses in over it. I'll still put in aluminum but probably won't screw into it unless screws pull out of this synthetic material. These will get glassed in tomorrow.

I also managed to get all of the old fiberglass off of the dry storage/bait tank. Hopefully, I'll get a coat of glass on everything and be able to start the back of the cap.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I've been mulling around options of how to glue my deck to the stringers and bulkheads once I get them all cut to height, glassed, and foamed. Ideally, I'd like to get a 3/4" line on top of the stringers and bulkheads and set the deck down on top of it. The deck will of course be glassed to the hull at the edges as well as some other areas where I can get access to it from below like in the fuel tank compartment and in the rear by the bilge.

My epoxy likes to go into exotherm when mixed in larger quantities which causes some concern as to being able to get some on all of the stringers and bulkheads before it goes off. So I've been looking at slow hardeners and thick epoxy from US Composites. Are there other options such as Gorilla Glue that could be considered? Would PL Bond provide enough adhesion and sealing to work?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I would not use PL. I would get the USC Slow cure Epoxy and thicken it with some cabosil. You should have plenty of time to get it down and everything installed. Again, with large batchs, use large containers, i.e 5 gallon bucket for mixing 2 qts of resin. It won't Kick so fast if you do and if the temps are up, put the bucket in an ice chest to "Fool It" into thinking it's cooler.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

You'll also be doing a 4X8 maximum area at a time, so you only need to mix enough to get the stern decking piece down & screwed/weighed down. Then enough to do the next sheet & so on....

Keeping the A&B parts chilled before you mix it helps too..

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Plodding along.

I completed replacement of all of the wood in the front part of the cap. There was the main deck and then the nose at the very front of the cap. Both of these were bedded with hairy PB and then covered with fiberglass cloth.The outer edges of the main deck were glassed in around the edges with 1708. There was an area behind the bait tank/dry storage/cooler area was a void so I put in expanding foam for some added support and insulation.

Since I used the synthetic wood blocks for securing cleats and deck rails, I covered them all in 1708 and for ones that I can't reach with the cap back on the hull, I added 1/8" strips of aluminum. The blocks will be there long after I am gone.

The synthetic blocks with aluminum strips.

More of the blocks on the starboard side of the cap.

And now to more demo work on the aft end of the cap. Grinding glass, cutting out old wood and sanding to replace with new.

It is my hope to have this mostly done by tomorrow (which means at least an extra day or two) and perhaps flip the cap Thursday evening. I'll put the cap back on the boat for measurements on Friday and get the scaffolding set up on both sides of the boat. I'll have to raise and lower the cap at least a few times as I get the floor to stringer height calculated. Scaffolding and pulleys will aid in that.

Why did they lightly foam everything in the cap? It isn't structural. Was it because they could? As you can see, I did have to remove some from areas of the front of the cap. If I had all of the time in the world, I might use some 2 pound foam and lightly coat everything but unless it's thought to be absolutely necessary, I'll forgo that step.

 

[Teamster]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

More foam equals more floatation,.....

I like floatation in a boat,................

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

A long long long day.

My target was to get the cap finished today, flipped over and back on top of the hull. Tomorrow I will be getting the scaffolding and the pulleys set up so that I can lift it for measuring and eventually setting it on the deck. I took half the day off of work and in 2 hours had everything in the back end of the cap sanded down. Things slowed down from there. My cap flipping friends showed up around 7:00 and we were furiously finishing up some final epoxy work.

Here is the finished underside of the splash well. Late yesterday I decided to redo all of the wood in there since POs had run screws through the gelcoat into the void. It was originally 1/4" western cedar and was really glued together and mostly glued to the cap. There were some major voids under most of it. I sharpened the end of my long crowbar like a chisel and was able to get the wood removed in about an hour and a half last night. It still needs to be foamed up but I can do that easy enough. A hint to make things easier. Bevel all wood to a 45degree angle.

A closer view.

Here is the starboard boards under the cap in the back. All holes were glassed over and hairy PB was used to fill the voids. The port side is similar. At the bottom edge of the opening, you can see the composite wood that I've been using for a screw strip,. It was bedded in hairy PB and glassed in with 1708. Overkill? Perhaps, but it will never rot and will be there for the rest of my life.

Another view. A lot of it is not pretty, but I see no advantage in making the underside of the cap "pretty".

Prior to the cap flip

Post cap flip.

Tomorrow comes the scaffolding and rigging. With any luck, I'll have the stringers cut to height by the end of the day Saturday and start the major fiberglass work on Sunday.

And I am ordering more epoxy tomorrow. Since we've learned how to work this epoxy, it's become quite easier. You just have to be focused and pay attention to what is going on.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Well yesterday I went and got some scaffolding from a friend of mine. Six units takes me up 12 feet on both sides of the boat. This morning, bright and early, I got out and got to work. Jere is the scaffolding that I set up last evening. You can see a 2x4 brace on the back top posts.

After a bit more work, I had both braces in place, the winches bolted down and ropes and pulleys all rigged. I went to Northern Tool and picked up 2 600 pound winches for $15.00. I used U bolts to attache them to the scaffolding. It worked like a charm!

Winch #1.

Winch #2.

With the winches, I was able to easily lift the cap and remove the 4x4's and lower it onto the stringer in the hull.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

With the cap on the hull, I was able to take measurements and slot the stringers in preparation of measuring and cutting the stringers.

Here, the aft stingers are notched.

The front stringers are also notched.

It took some fitting and finagling to finally get the cap setting on the hull properly. One trick that helped was to screw the cap back onto the hull in spots. It kept everything lined up nicely.

Here is the transom lines once it is all fitted back together.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Now for measuring. I clamped 2 3 inch blocks to the top of the old floor. I left a 1.5" piece all around the cap and will feather that into the new deck once it is in place. From the straight edge, I cut a piece of wood that was 3" + 3/16" for the old deck fiberglass and the combined thickness of the glass on the stringers, the new deck and the glass on both side of it.

After running a straight edge between all of the line, I the got in with a saw and cut the stringers. I took off 2 1/2" to 3" or so.

At the back of the boat, lines didn't seem to be lining up all that well. The entire back of the boat is under splash well and storage. I will reconcile that with the other cuts tomorrow.

All in all, today was VERY productive. I should be able to finish off my tabbing and probably start glassing the stringers. Once done with that, it'll be on to bulkheads.