Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

[Woodonglass]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I'd highly suggest you start with 10 gallons of epoxy. It goes fast. It takes 1 gallon of resin to wet out 4 yard of fabric. You don't use CSM with epoxy and 1708 has CSM stitched to the back of it. You only need 17 oz biaxial fabric. I'd use that only on the stringers and transom. The deck would only need 8 oz fabric.
I'd use 1/2" plywood laminated together for the stringers using Titebond III wood glue.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Thanks WOG.

Would ACX be acceptable or is marine grade preferred?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

ACX will work. Once it's encapsulated in the Epoxy and glass, with proper care and maintenance it will last for decades!!!!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Today was a very productive day even though we got a late start. My wife was very helpful bailing water out of some of the compartments. She also helped quite a bit with getting foam out of the boat as well.

I pulled up the fuel tank and was removing the mounting hardware that they used. Simple 2x4s. I was already drenched by this time.

The fuel tank standing up in preparation of being lifted out of the boat.

I rented an engine hoist and prepared to pull the outboard. Came out easy as could be.

I built up an engine stand to hold the outboard. Took a bit because I was hot and not thinking too clearly, but it is solid and the motor isn't going anywhere.

and

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Here is the boat with the outboard removed. Tomorrow, I get to take a crack at getting the cap and transom separated.

It doesn't look like much but cleanup is progressing nicely.

The last good piece of work for today was getting almost all of the cap loose from the hull. YAY! All that is left is the transom area.

One thing that I did find was that the hull has laminated plywood in it. It was slightly damp on the edges. No rot, but it has me leery.


Click to launch. My videos will not embed.
[video]http://bakerjw.org/WebPics/20130720/00442.mpg[/video]

[video]http://bakerjw.org/WebPics/20130720/00443.mpg[/video]

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

I've been working out how to proceed once I get the hull reworked. My son, who is an architect, helped with some drawings. Here is the original layout from Stratos.

Here is what I'm thinking of doing.

I will rebuild the hull as it came from the factory except that everything will be an inch or two higher than before. The decking will be glassed on both surfaces and also to the hull. I'll then glass in a block behind the base of the cap and epoxy the cap to this block as well as the deck. Do you think that this will work ok? There really isn't that much in the way of structural support in the cap from what I've seen.


Another thing that I'll be eventually dealing with is the embedded wood in the rail part of the cap. It is mostly shot and I'm going to replace it so that the guard rail is solid once again. Is it possible to lay it full of PB and glass it in place? Is that overkill? Just looking for options.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Last question of the day. Any advice as to how to split the cap fiberglass from the transom? I'm thinking a wide putty knife.

 

[Teamster]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

My personal opinion would be to keep the deck height as it came from the factory,..

Raising the height will change the balance of the boat, Not sure how that will play out,...............

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

The deck height is not changing. It is more a consolidation of the original 2 decks of 1/2" plywood into a single one of 3/4". It might be a little bit lighter which will lower the center of gravity.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

So another somewhat productive day has come and gone. I had intended on getting the cap split from the transom today, but I got looking at the big picture and decided that I needed to build up a frame to hold the boat in place while I cut out the stringers and bulkheads. So in what became a modest engineering effort, we lifted the boat from the trailer and got it sitting on blocks in the driveway.

I still had the engine hoist for lifting the outboard, so I used some straps near the transom to lift the back of the boat from the trailer. I originally used a floor jack to get the boat lifted to make sure that the engine hoist would hold it. Worked like a charm.

Here is the operation with wood blocks supporting everything. The boat was kept from rolling by the straps on the engine hoist.

After a trip to the local lumber yard, I created a frame out of landscape timbers. They are all screwed together to keep them from rolling.

I used multiple thicknesses of boards every 2 feet and knocked them tight against the keel to spread out the load. I then used 2x4s along the chines and then knocked in short 2x4s to transfer the load the the landscape timbers.

I used diagonal 2x4s to provide rigidity. When I am finished, there will be 3 supporting lines on each side of the hull.

I still have reinforcing to complete before it is sturdy enough to get in the boat, but it shouldn't take too much effort. Our driveway slopes downhill and the boat was backed into it so I had to raise the bow pretty high in order to get everything to drain out back toward the bilge. All it takes is scraps of wood.

 

[Teamster]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

It's starting to look like you've done this before,......................

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

No, this will be my first attempt. If I'm going to do it though, I'm going to do it right and keeping the hull true is one of the keys to a good rebuild.

It is my hope to be grinding and sanding this weekend. To that end, I picked up one of these. It has positive airflow over the face so I shouldn't be getting too bothered by flying fiberglass. Fiberglass really irritated my face where it had gotten under the edges of my goggles and respirator. I really don't want that to happen again.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Three more items here. I'll appreciate your input WOG.

I have pretty much decided that I'm going to rebuild the transom for 2 reasons.
#1 is that the previous owners have put holes for transducers, speed sensors, etc... all over the current transom. I have no idea of how well they were sealed up.
#2 is that I will have unfettered access to the transom here in a few days. It just seems to be prudent to do so since I'm already this close. The second part of the puzzle is whether to replace it with wood or go with one of the pourable compounds. 3M makes an excellent one from what I've read and the inner surface will be sanded down to impeccable condition.


Then there is materials list time.

What is the preferred material for tabbing in stringers and bulkheads? Friscoboater used 1708 for his Sea Ray project. Is it best to just cuts strips of that or would Fiberglass Cloth Tape Strips 8 inches wide 10 ounces per square yard. work well?

How about for glassing tops and bottoms of decks? I am looking at 4 oz fiberglass cloth. with plans for a single layer underneath and multiple layers on the top surface.

Then onto Cabosil and 1/4" chopped strand fiberglass. How far can I expect 5 quarts of each to go? Later tonight I'll have a better idea of stringer and bulkhead length. It seems that PB is mostly used for bedding stringers and bulkheads.

Lastly, all of wood in the cap rails has been glassed in and I am sure is shot. It is hard to get screws to bite into them. Would a polyester resin based PB mixture make a good wood substitute? Something similar to what is used for transoms? I read that 3M makes such a compound, but it sounded a lot like PB to me. I figure that if PB would work, then I could clean out the cavities, pour the PB and then glass everything in place. Would that be sound or is there a better way?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Making great progress! The cradle looks solid and should work perfectly, very nice!
I'll let WoG give you your basic shopping list, cause he is real good at figuring out what you'll need...
My 2? is relating to your grinding outfit...
Looks like it will be Hotter than Hades in that thing...
My suggestion would be to try and score a Medium 6000 series 3M Full face Shield from evilbay...I picked mine up for 62 bucks including shipping...
They look like this...

Buy a Tyvek Full Body Suit with the Hood...go one or two sizes larger than you think, if needed, tape up your wrists...

You'll be a lot more comfortable with those...
Then Make sure you get some baby powder and cover any exposed skin really good with it...anothe rthing you can do is to use some mild liquid hand soap, rub it on your skin before suiting up, let it dry on your skin, then rub the baby powder on, then suit up...the combination will seal your pores from glass infiltration, and when your grinding session is over, use cool water to wash off...that's when the dried liquid soap will play it role...
Have fun!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Lastly, all of wood in the cap rails has been glassed in and I am sure is shot. It is hard to get screws to bite into them. Would a polyester resin based PB mixture make a good wood substitute? Something similar to what is used for transoms? I read that 3M makes such a compound, but it sounded a lot like PB to me. I figure that if PB would work, then I could clean out the cavities, pour the PB and then glass everything in place. Would that be sound or is there a better way?

This is what I did...
Removed the old "nailers" and made new ones for the rub rail screws...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

GT1M has you on the right track. This should help some too...
(Click the pic to Download and View the PDF File)
View attachment MaterialsList.pdf

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Well, tonight I finished the rack. It is real solid and matched the hull contour to a tee. I wouldn't hold a WWE wrestling match in it, but it is solid enough for what I'm going to do. There is a lot of cross bracing between a lot of members. A pack of cedar shims came in very handy as well.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

Once the cradle was finished, I got to dig into the task at hand. Finally.

I cut through most of the bulkhead directly behind the fuel tank so that it would be easier to lay down in the bilge to disconnect things and to try to split the transom from the cap. For the record, that is nearly impossible to do. The wood was saturated and very heavy. I know the wood, glass, and resins have some weight, but this is ridiculous.

I removed a horizontal board under the engine well. I wanted to see if I could get some flat chisels up between the transom and the cap. No dice.

With that time sink out of the way, I cut back the top of the transom to where the wood, wet I might add, meets the fiberglass of the transom and cap.

It is very wet inside. Some of the places where there were holes, like for the engine, seemed to be pretty solid, but there were signs of swelling. I will likely opt for replacing the transom with wood as it was originally built but we shall see when I get to that point

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

GT1000000, the reason that I went with that unit is that I do sandblasting when I have to. It is a dirty messy job and this project gave me an excuse to get gear to help me with that. This unit also has an air feed to push air down onto your face. If it didn't have an air feed, there is no way in the free world that I'd get it. It'd be too hot.

I already used one Tyvec suit during the cutout last Friday. When I get ready to start grinding and sanding, I'll be all set. I already have more tools than the average person can imagine. In the garage is my Induma mill and Hendey lathe. Along with welders torches, 12ton press, air compressor, etc... It takes a major task to stump me.

Thanks for the picture of your boat with the wood rails installed. When I get the cap pulled, I'll post some pictures of the area to which I am referring. It is a 4" wide spot all around the top of the cap.

But that is for another day. Tomorrow, I hope to get the transom dug out and the cap cut loose. Wednesday night I'll get some friends to come over with a promise of free draft beer and we'll manhandle the cap off of this beast so that the fun work can commence. The front deck has water saturated wood in it and weighs a ton.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Stratos 1850 possible rebuild?

And so ends another day of working on the Stratos. Again the saying, expect the worst and you'll never be disappointed, has been reinforced. I easily removed all of the PB and glass at the top of the transom and fired up the chain saw. It ate right through the alternating layers of plywood and glass. And then soundly ran into a stainless screw! ARGHH!!! Dulled the chain immediately. I ended up having to drill down and run a sawzall to get the cap to finally break free. A 1 hour task ended up twice as long. But... The cap is now loose and ready to be hoisted off of the hull.

Here is the damage that I had to inflict on the transom to get the cap to come loose.

The end of the cap is none the worse for the wear.

This is one beefy transom. This is an undisturbed area. Ill grind a spot smooth to get an idea of how thick that it was when originally installed. It measures out at 2" with 1/4 glass on each side.

It was kind of ingenious the way that they constructed the transom. The wood of the transom was about an inch below the top of the transom. Then they laminated over some PB and glassed in a piece of 1/2" wood. I'd say that they did that so that the cap could be screwed down to the 1/2: board without penetrating into the transom itself.


One thing that was interesting. The transom didn't go all the way to each side of the hull. It seems to me that this would make it difficult to glass in thoroughly. You can also see a thin strip of wood at the top of the hull. This is used to screw the cap to the hull.

Tomorrow, I start measuring everything out and start the demolition. At the same time I'll be looking for a way to get the cap lifted odd of the hull. She is a gnarly beast still weighing in at at least 400#.