Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

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oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

"could have just been a new kid on the chopper gun....."

For a non-expert, (and for someone that does not want to have this experience under their belt) are you indicating that the hull layers were not laid up thick enough?

using a chopper gun is a tough thing to do....it takes a long time to get it right.....and a good person on the gun can save your company lots of cash and it can also save weight on the vessel.
on the other hand....if not used correctly.......

it is clear from the picks that spots were missed................ if spots were missed....then there is no way the spray could be uniform......

there is some exellent comments and great posts here.
i still havent figgured out how to milti quote...so ......

jay merrylls post is really good.

and i know capt jason has huge experience on this subject......his comments were short sweet.........

and dead bang on.
 

baineyg

Seaman
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
53
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

After reading everybody's advice I sent the following letter to the Service Manager at Bass Pro today. No response yet but I bet it got them thinking about me.
Email sent to Bass Pro Service Dept:
It started taking on water for no apparent reason the past few trips. After inspecting everything I finally found the problem. There is a hole, it is right where the trailer bunk is and the tires hide it when loaded. That explains why I never noticed it. I?m glad I got under the boat to wash every inch. Two years after ownership I found major damage. The internal stringers were poking through the hull.
I want a new boat, my money back, or a written guarantee this boat will not break apart and possibly injure and take the lives of my family.
If no replacement or refund is offered please let me know so I can hire a boat surveyor to determine if it can be fixed and made water worthy. I want safety first but I?m also aware that if this must be disassembled it will likely result in serious cosmetic damage on my $26K dollar boat. I don?t want that either.

Bottom Line, I am afraid to take my family and friends on this boat anymore. It could have killed my family, friends and me with this hull failure.

Polite but stern, I'll let ya'll know what they reply back.

baineyg
 

TheWoodCrafter

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
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414
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

Good letter. Congeneial (sp), polite but to the point.
Safety, money, new boat, good.

No report from them today?
 

woosterken

Lieutenant
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
1,431
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

is tahoe a member of the nmma?
you mite want to let them know whats going on.

woosterken
 

cbavier

Lieutenant
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1,363
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

is tahoe a member of the nmma?
you mite want to let them know whats going on.

woosterken

I think it's best to give Tahoe a chance to respond now that Baineyg has sent the letter. He has made his desire and reasonable request in a civil yet precise manner. I still Think/Hope that Tahoe will act responsibly. If not this forum and several other means and forums could certainly hurt their business. Their are consumer advocate groups. USCG and nmma as well as other avenues he could take if he so chose to do. Just give Tahoe a chance to make it right. Tahoe doesn't want unhappy customers or face the possibility of a lawsuit should something happen. So still lay low and give them a chance to properly respond. You will catch more flies with Honey than you will with Vinegar.
 

Robj

Lieutenant
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Messages
1,441
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

Meh. With enough force most glass will peel away, and it'll look a lot like that. We don't know how much force was applied, hence we don't know if it was a good or bad layup.

But I can tell you that glass looks like that when it's ripped away from wood :)

I don't see it peeling away from wood, it looks like it is peeling away from glass. That is why I think it is caused by poor workmanship.

Have a great day,

Rob.
 

azlakes

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
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Messages
720
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

... yup good letter. Tahoe is a model under the Tracker boats corp. Bass Pro is an outlet. I'd hope Bass Pro would appeal to Tracker boats and forward this letter to their pr group.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
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5,653
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

You will catch more flies with Honey than you will with Vinegar.

I absolutely agree with you that it is best to start on a friendly and low-key basis. That said, I think he needs to be quietly firm about this and I think he needs to make sure that the manufactuer understands that he will take this to the mat if need be. I truly wish that more more companies would just do the right thing in the first place, but that reality of "modern life" is that most don't. Sadly, sometimes you have to let folks know that you aren't there to catch bees and that they will be drinking a lot of vinegar if they try to play you.
 

jusfloatin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
295
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

I would be willing to lay a bet that Tahoe will step up and give you a new boat with an appoligie and assurances that they will find out what happened.

You may not find out but these people know boats and they are not interested in having a boat like this on a trailer let alone on water.
I am sure it's all a matter of time so the proper info gettting to the right person.
 

salty87

Commander
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
2,327
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

Bottom Line, I am afraid to take my family and friends on this boat anymore. It could have killed my family, friends and me with this hull failure.

i like that line particularly. i'd suggest you keep it handy and use it...if you get to talk to anyone in person, mgmt...don't be afraid to invite them and their family out for a long afternoon on a deep lake.

that said, companies have the responsibility to investigate claims fully. we all pay for fraud and negligence through higher prices. hopefully, this won't take long.

good luck....oh yeah, who has the boat now?
 

Willyclay

Captain
Joined
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3,263
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

Is this one of those Chinese boats I've been hearing about?
 

reelfishin

Captain
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Mar 19, 2007
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3,050
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

That boat was dropped at some point, there's just too much damage to explain it any other way. My only concern is whether or not Tahoe will take responsibility for it. It may not have happened at the factory, but at the dealer or while in transit.
I've seen vehicles that were damaged by the carrier and have been repaired and reshipped to the dealer with no one ever saying a word. Most of the time the dealer doesn't even know. I watched a brand new van get low bridged and the roof completely removed, the van went back to the carrier, their insurance repaired the vehicle and it was redelivered a few weeks later. If we hadn't recorded the serial number, it would have been the dealers problem, but knowing it was the same vehicle it got refused. I suppose however it got pawned off on another dealer sooner or later. Most states have disclosure laws, but all too often they get ignored or conveniently forgotten. Many states also only require disclosure if you ask, others have dollar amounts. Here it's $1500 or more must be disclosed at the time of sale. If you have any doubt that this law often gets disregarded, take a look at how many flood vehicles turned up all over the country after Hurricane Katrina hit the gulf coast.

If the boat was damaged by a carrier it's really not the fault of the manufacturer, but your particular state laws may govern the way that is handled. You may at the very least be able to use it in a lemon law type of claim. But beware, lemon laws may not apply to boats and 'recreational vehicles'. If the factory refuses to make good free of charge, I would go after the dealer. Don't threaten to do so, just do it. Warning them gives them time to start planning a way out of it.

I would suspect that the boat was mishandled or improperly transported somehow if not just outwardly dropped, it may well have been hurricane damaged and repaired and relocated. (The age of that boat puts in the suspect time period too). I live within site of a Tracker dealer here, I see boats being delivered and can't imagine how they don't get damaged. I've seen them stacked piggy back with wood forms for supports, even larger boats are hauled that way. The name of the game is to get as many on a truck as possible. Once the boats leave the factory, only the driver knows what happens from there to the dealer. Some come in on trailers, others are mated to trailers at the dealer.

I am also surprised that the dealer hasn't tried to claim abuse somehow, even to an untrained eye, that would be the first question. The dealer may know something that they're not letting on. Especially if they weren't too surprised at the damage.

Do a web search on the company that built the boat, search Tahoe boat problem and Tracker problems. The company has had lots of complaints about hull damage, on both glass and aluminum hulls.

Tracker boats are common here, but mostly aluminum hulls, I have seen several odd failures in their boats, everything from bent hulls to large cracks along ribs in fairly new boats. The worst one I saw in an aluminum boat was one that bent about 6" ahead of the transom, the transom and motor actually looked like it had been pushed downward about 2 inches. The factory did nothing claiming too large of a motor, (it was under the Coast Guard plates max size, and it had been bought as a complete package from the dealer.
The factory blamed the dealer and owner, the dealer blamed the factory, and no one would fix the boat. In court, the court pretty much ruled in favor of the dealer saying that an owner assumes a certain amount of risk when purchasing an 'off road or recreational vehicle' and the factory and dealer have no control or way to observe it's use. In other words the buyer assumes at his own risk that its potentially an unsafe or unproven vehicle and must be responsible for any subsequent repairs created while using such a vehicle. The owner was stuck with a bent hull, the dealer washed their hands of it, and the courts backed it up. They sort of look at boats here as high risk items which are prone to failure and any use is considered possibly extreme.

As messed up as that sounds, their reasoning is similar to buying any off road or high performance part for you car or truck, theres no other warranty other than the fact that it is what it is and the extent of the warranty is against defects, not damage, regardless how the damage got there.

Be ready for a fight, whether or not it comes along. If they won't replace it, go after the dealer, if they aren't at fault, let them go after the carrier or factory too. No matter what, so long as you know that you didn't cause the damage, and from what I can see of the pics, I doubt it unless you dropped it off a bridge to launch it, someone knows more than their letting on. Chances are that they remember what happened and knew right away where to look.
The tank story is crap, it sounds to me like they are trying to down play the extent of the damage. The bubbling around the outer crack looks more like lifting paint than gelcoat? It's hard to tell by the pic. It could be a clue to a former repair.

That boat may also have far more damage than what you see there, they are only digging for what has already popped through the outside, even if the fix those spot and get lucky and it's a successful repair, who's to say that there isn't other damage that hasn't surfaced yet. If that's the case, it for one isn't safe, and second, they may try to pin the blame the second time on you.

No matter what they do, anything short of a new hull, that boat isn't ever going to be right. Even if they do a bare hull and all your old parts, if it's not done by the factory, corners may be cut to save time. I would think that it would be in the interest of the dealer to supply a complete boat, and make peace with you asap. But from what I've read online, that doesn't seem to be the case with this company.

The letter you wrote was good, it didn't threaten and you put the ball in their hands quoting safety and obvious warranty issues. If the letter don't work or if any part begins to get defensive or begins to start placing blame, get a lawyer and let him hire a marine surveyor, it's well worth the money to get this handled asap at that point and to be sure to cover all your bases.

If that was mine, there is NO WAY I'd let them fix that, the only options in my mind are either a complete new hull, or a complete boat. If it was an outboard, the motor swap idea would be more viable, but being an IO, I'd hope they would see the cost of labor and just write off a new boat to customer satisfaction regardless of who or what did actually damage that boat. It's their name on the boat, not the dealers.

Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

A company couldn't BUy this sort of bad advertising.

I don't know boats but I know glass work, that type of damage is caused by heavy impact from the inside.

Unless a marine surveyor is very expensive I would have had it inspected first then included a copy that report in my initial claim with the mfger.
An impartial expert inspection would give a good idea whether its repairable too.


I feel the dealer or mfger will make good, one way or another.
 

cbavier

Lieutenant
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Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

I don't totally agree with you reelfishin but you do bring up some good points.

My son bought a new GMC Envoy and after about 1500 Miles noticed the front tires wearing excessively. So he took it back to the GM Dealer where he bought it for inspection and front end alignment. They stated he or someone had struck some object and the Engine cross member was damaged and needed to be replaced at a tune of some $3,000 which of course wasn't covered under warranty. He took the Envoy to an Independent well respected Auto repair facility and they inspected the truck and said it had been dropped either by the Factory or the Carrier. My son got this declaration in writing and then called his Insurance company. Guess what. After one letter by the insurance Company GM agreed to take the Envoy back to the factory for Inspection and repair or replace. They gave him a New Envoy to use at their expense while his was gone. GM opted to repair the Envoy and Gave my son a Lifetime warranty on the Front end and replaced all four Michelin tires. So as an alternative if Tahoe doesn't assume responsibility might be for Bainyg to just contact his Insurance Co. Leave the Boat at the factory or wherever it is and Let his Insurance Co. take the proper action. That way it would matter who done the damage. The Insurance Company would have to determine that as well as the proper course of action. My Boat is covered no matter who is at fault, me, uninsured boater or if it's just an accident. Of course if the Insurance Co handles the claim and Bainyg gets a new baot. He is going to have to pay some difference. That's only reasonable.
 

JMRuth72

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
125
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

Hi Bainey,

I was looking at the pics that you posted and it to me like someone has attemted repair before. The transverse stringer aft of the fuel tank appears to be a little thick to me and I also noticed what appears to be aged masking tape on the id plate for the fuel tank. Who taped it and why? I am thinking that it was to cover it during a repair so that the important information on it was protected and they neglected to take the tape off. As to what caused it I would bet on a mix of transportation damage and low quality of work at the manufacturer followed by a poor repair job. I liked your letter to the dealer. I would definately hire a marine surveyor and atleast start talking to lawyers. I also hope that you won't need the lawyers. I also liked the idea of talking with your insurance company and getting them to look at it. I would think that the more trained eyes look at it and file reports can do nothing but help with this. Not to mention that it would send a quiet but clear message to the dealer and the manufacturer that you are seeking the advice of professionals and are not going to get played if you have any say in it at all. Good luck and please keep us posted.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
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12,932
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

seems to me that these posts are good advice.....

baineyg....do you have insurance?
 

baineyg

Seaman
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
53
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

I have USAA insurance. But hopefully I don't have to contact them. I talked to the Srevice Writer at Bass Pro today and he forwarded my email along with pics to tracker marine. He sent it to 3 people in the company so now I'm just on hold for their reply. He sent measurements and descriptions of the break. It's now up to Tracker Marine. If they give me a wrong answer, I'll hire the marine surveyor and contact my insurance company. Thanks for all the good advice. It's helping me make decisions on how to proceed.

Bainey
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

bainey...

if he sent it to 3 people with picks......sounds like hes doin his job....and not trying to weasle out.....if they thought you had caused it...you would have known right away.......

a point that was brought up in the letter you wrote.....about wanting a written letter if repaired on the stability of the hull...?


it has been brought up here about resale.......the resale value of the boat will be way ...way...down......you dont want to rip off a potential buyer by not telling them about the repair....that wouldnt be right......

so if repaired..... you are left with a hull that is worth less than average..... as far as the purchaser sees it.

having said all that ....you...... and they are still bound by the warranty agreement......

you might want to bring that up if they start talking about repair.....

i would think a new hull with your motor and electronics in it would be fair....

just more stuff to think about...

cheers
oops
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
13,024
Re: Stringer Pushing through bottom of Boat?

The fact that they sent the pix, is encouraging, that means they are not just making a snap decision on such an important issue.
When I was redoing my old boat, I asked the guy who did some of my glass work what he thought of the newer composite boats, he said if they do everything just right, yes they are fine, but if they don't you can have major problems with delamination and cracks.
 
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