'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn -- looking for suggestions

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn -- looking for suggestions

Ayuh,.... How about possibly mentioning what size the sloopy bolts are,..?? I'll guess they're probably 3/8"-16...

sloopy?

Is that like "Hang on Sloopy, Sloopy hang on"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_On_Sloopy

(can ya believe that's the official rock song of the state of Ohio and The Ohio State University???)

The sloopy bolt is indeed 5/16" (coarse thread)

And it's sloopy in all 3 holes. I just took a ride to my local Ace Hardware store to check the size.

The next size is (as you know) 3/8"

And that's too big, so a 3/8" bolt isn't fitting in these holes.

Frankly, I am quite perplexed. I've never seen this before. The bolt hole threads are 1" deep and that's a pretty long way to screw a bolt in and have it be as sloopy as this one is. I'd frankly be afraid to put any kind of meaningful torque on the thing for fear it would strip. And this is a fairly new and pristine bolt, so the bolt is not the problem.

And it ain't metric. The equivalent metric bolt is an 8, and that's about exactly the same size as the 5/16" (but the threads are different). The next size metric is a 10, and that's about the same as a 3/8" (it's too big to fit in these holes).

I guess I have to go with the 5/16" bolts and snug them down and give it a go. What else can I do?

Like I said, this is a new one on me.

 

[Doernuth]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Try the same size bold with a courser thread pattern. That "sloopy" feeling may be due to the threads in the hole being wider than the threads on the bolt. Bolts come in several thread patterns. A decent tap and die set comes with a thread guage, measure the bolt threads and then try and measure the threads in the hole as well. They should be the same.

Another suggestion, can you get a strap wrench on the ballancer itself? if you can you may be able to turn the ballancer with the strap wrench and free up the piston with the cranck rather than hitting the piston with a hammer.

The fact that the MMO leaked out of all but one cylinder may mean loose/bad rings. It might not be a bad idea to pull the engine and do a complete rebuild on it...

 

[Bondo]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Ayuh,... Glad you're having fun with a simple typo,... I thought you were trying to fix your motor...

Is the drive off this thing yet,..??

The 5/16" bolts will probably work to attach a bar, as they'll be shear loaded, not in tension...

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Try the same size bold with a courser thread pattern. That "sloopy" feeling may be due to the threads in the hole being wider than the threads on the bolt. Bolts come in several thread patterns...

bold? (don't get me started, Sloopy)

Never heard of that different thread patterns thing. I'm only familiar with SAE coarse and fine. These are 5/16" bolt holes (albeit sloopy 5/16" bolt holes) and so the only choice I'm aware of are the coarse and fine threads; that is, 5/16-18 & 5/16-24. See here -

http://www.americanfastener.com/techref/machine.htm

And you can also note there that the next size after 5/16 is 3/8, which is way too big to fit and also is 16 threads/inch, which isn't going to work.

You may be thinking of pipe threads, which might be different. That's actually a thought and might yield some fruit if I investigate that further.

I don't think the strap wrench is gonna do it although it's a good suggestion and I thank you for it. If I could work a long enough lever into that situation, it might just work.

I'm not worried about my other piston rings. I want to get this thing going and then I can assess how it's working and whether or not a rebuild is in order. I've never had this motor running although I'm confident that it was in running condition when I got it. And even if it wasn't, I can get it going for sure.

...The 5/16" bolts will probably work to attach a bar, as they'll be shear loaded, not in tension...

I agree. I also thought of that aspect of the matter. And if the motor can't be turned before the bolts give way (which I think is never gonna happen anyway) then it's way too stuck to be trying this trick anywho.

I found this link where the suggestion was to try adding straight ATF to try to free up the frozen rings, so I'm going to add some of that and then find some acetone and do the 50:50 thing too.

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/17rqx-i-have-a-mercruiser-470-circa-1980-which-is-still-in-the

With just this one stuck piston, I can't imagine I can't free this puppy up with this proposed method.

Now, does anybody have any suggestions as to what kind of rig I should be bolting on? You know, such that I can use a breaker bar to try to turn the motor? I'm thinking a larger sized pipe welded to the appropriate flange arrangement, and then I can drill a hole completely through the pipe through which I can insert a tool-steel breaker bar. I can then slip a longer pipe over the breaker bar for more than enough leverage.

But might there be something already available that could serve the purpose and I'm just not thinking of it?

Maybe I should visit the local tool rental place and see what they have in large strap wrenches, as per Doernuth's suggestion. They might have something that could accomodate a long enough lever/bar. And cost-wise, it's probably going to be cheaper to rent a tool than to have something fabricated.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

Success!! The motor is finally unstuck!!

Here's how I did it:

First of all, I don't think the ATF that I put on top of piston #4 did anything to help. The volume did not seem to decrease, so I don't think any of it had seeped down past the rings, which it would have had to do in order to help free things up.

So I went to the hardware store and bought a 4" pipe flange (that's the diameter of the flange) and a 3" long nipple for it. This is basically what I got (for less than 10 bucks):

http://www.urbansurvivalists.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/phase5/pipeflange.jpg

although I must say I'm envious of the shoulder on that one -- the shoulder on mine isn't nearly as long. That became somewhat significant, although in the end it didn't matter.

I drilled three holes in the flange to fit the holes in the harmonic balancer -- the holes you would use to screw a puller onto the harmonic balancer.

Actually, I used one of the original 4 holes in the flange, so I only had to drill 2 holes. That made it not exactly centered on the harmonic balancer, but it wasn't off by all that much and I didn't think it would matter, which it didn't.

Then I bolted it to the harmonic balancer and screwed the nipple into it using a pipe wrench. I had hoped that when the nipple got far enough in and got tough to screw in any further, the motor might break free. But no such luck there. I could tell that if I kept on going, the threads would strip, or the flange would split, or something like that would happen.

I was turning the nipple in a clockwise direction, naturally, and that was the direction that I wanted to turn the motor anyway. This motor runs counterclockwise and since the stuck piston was not quite yet at TDC, I wanted to turn it such that it would go down before going up any further. That meant I wanted to turn the motor clockwise.

So when just screwing the nipple in tight didn't budge the motor, I decided to try drilling through the flange shoulder and nipple, then inserting a bolt through both the flange shoulder and nipple such that the nipple could no longer turn (be screwed in).

So that's what I did. It wasn't exactly a straightforward procedure to get that accomplished (like drilling right straight through everything) because I wasn't doing this on a professional drill press or anything, but I got it done. I drilled a 5/16" hole through the flange shoulder and nipple (with the nipple screwed in tight) and then slipped a 1/4" bolt through everything.

By the time I got all this done it was too late to go back to the hardware store to get a good-quality steel 1/4" bolt to use (actually, it wasn't quite too late, I was just too done in to go), so I used an old iron 1/4" bolt instead. I figured it likely would bend or break, but what the heck. I could get a better bolt tomorrow.

But to my surprise, it worked fine. I put my pipe wrench on the nipple, then slipped my longer pipe over the pipe wrench for leverage, and the motor broke free and turned.

Yipee!!

I've rotated it such that #4 is down about 3" from where it was, but not yet at BDC. It was getting too dark to get a good look at the condition of the cylinder wall, but I'll do that tomorrow.

At least I got the thing unstuck, and I think I'm on my way to getting somewhere meaningful now.

 

[Don S]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

Congratulations. You now have a 470 with very rough cylinder walls (from the rust) quickly wearing away your rings and piston sides.
Don't expect it to last very long. Those engines had problems staying together when everything was perfect. Stuck, rusty, rings, pistons, etc. is a long way from perfect.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 -- It's now unstuck!!

... You now have a 470 with very rough cylinder walls (from the rust) quickly wearing away your rings and piston sides....

For whatever it's worth, here's the current status:

This morning I finished turning the motor in a clockwise direction until #4 was @ BDC. I've since learned that I previously had the engine rotation backwards in that although I was correct about this being a counterclockwise rotating engine, I did not realize that means AS VIEWED FROM THE FLYWHEEL (i.e., from the back of the engine, not from the front of the engine). So that means that looking at the engine from the front (facing the harmonic balancer), the motor turns clockwise. Which means that I was wrong when I said #4 was just shy of TDC (when stuck) -- it was actually just past TDC.

Which means, as it turns out, it was on its intake stroke. Which means that #3 was completing its power stroke.

I also incorrectly estimated in my last post that I had left #4 piston ~3 inches down the cylinder wall. It was actually probably less than two inches down (not sure what the stroke of this engine is).

So anyway, as I turned the motor clockwise and moved #4 piston down to BDC, it was still very hard to turn the motor, even using my long pipe on the pipe wrench for extra leverage. I still had a goodly volume of ATF on top of the piston, so that was liberally lubricating the cylinder wall as the piston travelled down to BDC.

After getting it to BDC, I then switched my pipe wrench around and turned the engine in the opposite direction such that #4 piston moved back upward. When I got it about halfway up, it became very noticibly easier to turn the motor. I've done that same 'cycle' about 3 or 4 more times now, stopping the piston at least an inch short of TDC each time, and now the engine turns quite easily.

So it seems that after getting it unstuck, it's now moving quite freely.

That's the good news.

The bad news is that the ~1 inch wide band near the top of the cylinder, where the rings were contacting the cylinder wall while it was stuck, looks pretty rusty. I'm hopeful that it will clean up pretty well with my hone, but only time will tell on that. I have a fair amount of prep work to do before I hit that area with the hone.

So what I'll say about Don's post is that I agree that it's probably not a good idea to just 'unstuck' your engine when you have this problem, which BTW seems to be pretty darn common with these boat engines (not surprisingly, I suppose), and then just start 'er up and continue on as if nothing had happened.

I think the better thing to do is to pull the head and see what you can see and then go from there.

I could certainly be wrong. Maybe I could just put this thing back together and #4's rings would clean up the cylinder wall as well as anything else and the motor would be just fine, all things considered.

But I think that's probably not how it would go. I think you have to at least clean up the cylinder wall as best you can and then hope for the best. The BEST thing to do would be to pull the affected piston and clean that up and install new rings, but I think that's really not required here. I think the rings will free up and 'clean up' as the engine runs, and performance and ring life won't be affected all that much in the end. But I could be wrong and I guess I'll find out in the end.

If I had easy access to the oil pan and the bottom of the engine, I'd do just that. But ya have to pull the engine out of the boat to do it, and I'm not gonna do that here. At least, not now.

So that's my view of it. Keep in mind that I have only ONE cylinder that's affected. My other three cylinders are just fine -- they are completely normal. So if anybody else has this same problem with more than one cylinder being affected, you'd really have to pull the head and see how bad things look.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Status report on cylinder #4:

I got a good look at it now and everything below the rusty ring at the top of the cylinder is pristine -- the cylinder wall below that point looks completely normal.

Which means that any water / moisture / condensation on top of the piston never made it past the rings, which were positioned near the top of the cylinder since the piston was positioned just a hair shy of TDC.

The rusty/crusty ring looks appropriately 'crusty' and only is where the top piston ring was postioned. It's only about 1/4" wide and positioned ~1 inch from the top of the cylinder. There's another band of very light rust ~1 inch wide and ~1 inch down from that rusty/crusty ring, and that will clean up very nicely and pose no problem whatsoever.

So it's only that 1/4" wide band of rusty-crusty stuff that's going to pose any problem here. We'll see how it looks after I hit it with the hone.

If I had a digital camera I'd shoot some pics of it. Maybe I can do that if my GF plans on stopping by in the next day or two. I'll tell her to bring her camera. After that, I'll hopefully be honing the damage out.

I may put some 50:50 Acetone:ATF mix on top of the piston and hope that it works its way down to break up some of the rust and junk on the top piston ring (and the ones below it?). Or maybe I'll go with something lighter and less viscous and which would be more likely to penetrate on down. It might not help but it sure ain't gonna hurt.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

...If I had a digital camera I'd shoot some pics of it. Maybe I can do that if my GF plans on stopping by in the next day or two. I'll tell her to bring her camera. After that, I'll hopefully be honing the damage out.

I may put some 50:50 Acetone:ATF mix on top of the piston and hope that it works its way down to break up some of the rust and junk on the top piston ring (and the ones below it?). Or maybe I'll go with something lighter and less viscous and which would be more likely to penetrate on down. It might not help but it sure ain't gonna hurt.

Well, the GF did stop by so I took some pics of the rusty crusty ring near the top of the cylinder wall. I'll post them in a few days (hopefully). If anyone knows of anybody else's pics of a similar situation, I'd love to see those pics and read those posts.

Before I took the pics, I dried the cylinder wall and felt the ~1" wide band below the rusty crusty ring with my finger. Although that band bears the stain of rust, I couldn't feel any pitting or corrosion to the touch. So I'm confident that area will hone out nice and smooth. It's just the rusty crusty ring that might be a problem and that's only maybe 1/4" wide at most (probably only really the width of the top piston ring).

And on the ATF I poured on top of the piston, I noticed this morning that the volume of that was way down. So it seems that it is making its way past the rings, which is a good thing. I've added some more and will monitor that situation further.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

I noticed this morning that the volume of that was way down. So it seems that it is making its way past the rings, which is a good thing.

Ayuh,.... I bet the compression will do the Same Thing....

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Ayuh,.... I bet the compression will do the Same Thing....

Well, first I have to see about cleaning it up with the hone. If that works out and I get it running, I'll be sure to let you know about the compression.

That is, after I take your bet, of course. How much are you willing to put up?

Edit: I was remiss in not pointing out that when you quote someone, you never change what was said (Duh! If you change something, it's no longer a quote) unless you make note of your change. Like, in your case, you should have said "(emphasis added)" or "(emphasis not in original)". But I guess you didn't know that, huh? Or should I maybe say "Ayuh,...."

P.S.: Still awaiting your advise on the amount you're willing to wager, Sloopy.

And although it's against my best interests, before you ante up I'll point out that I've already mentioned that all of the MMO that I'd previously added to the other 3 cylinders had made its way past the rings and disappeared completely. That is, the other 3 unaffected-and-perfectly-normal cylinders.

So under your theory of engine dynamics, that would indicate that the compression in those three (3) unaffected and perfectly normal cylinders would also make its way past the rings. Which frankly doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me, but I guess it does to you, given your comment.

Not trying to start a flame war here, just trying to keep the record clean.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Well, I finally got the pics of my rusty cylinder #4, before and after. I have two pretty good pics of the rusty ring that appears to be due only to the top piston ring, and then two not-so-clear pics of the cylinder after it was honed lightly and then finished up (read on). The cleaned up pics look to be a tad out of focus, but I can assure you that the cylinder cleaned up very nicely and that the former rusty area came out as clean and smooth as the unaffected areas of the cylinder. It looks to me like all the rust you see was just surface rust.

Although the cleaned up pics aren't too good, the rusty ones are really the ones of interest. All ya need to know about the cleaned up cylinder wall is that it's just as good as 'new,' even if you can't tell that from the pics.

After lightly honing, so as to not take any material from the cylinder wall itself, I had just a few areas that were still a bit rusty. I dressed them up with some very fine sandpaper and they cleaned up very nicely. I probably could have done the whole job with the fine sandpaper and avoided honing at all.

Before doing any of this, I lined the top of the piston and cylinder wall just above the piston with tape so as to seal that area and prevent any filings and abrasive stuff from getting down to between the cylinder wall and piston. After the honing and sanding, I cleaned the area thoroughly before removing the tape. I'm confident that there are no abrasives left to cause undue wear to the cylinder wall, piston or rings. I didn't wash it with hot soapy water, which is the best way to remove all that kind of thing, but I might just do that before closing things up.

I am VERY confident that the engine will be just as good as it was before this rusty situation came about. I will say, however, that anyone else who has this situation should forget about just breaking it loose and then trying to run it without removing the head and taking care of things the way I have here. I think all that rust that you see could indeed have wreaked some havoc had it not been removed and cleaned up. And my situation turned out to be really quite minor, despite how stuck-hard my engine was.

I also found that I have two lifters that need to be replaced because they also got pretty rusty. And I also need to look at both valves on cylinder #4 because I believe there's some rust involved there as well. Indeed, any other valves that might have been open could probably stand some lapping because they likely could have some rust on the seats that needs attention. They might even need more than lapping, but ya won't know until you look.

There's also some pretty rough-looking corrosion in the intake and exhaust ports of the head. That should be cleaned up with a wire brush and such as well -- especially the intake ports. Once you've got significant moisture inside your engine, it can cause a lot of problems that need to be addressed.

So anytime you get some water in your engine, such as I've had here, you need to get down and dirty with it and clean everything up before thinking about running the engine just because you managed to get it "unstuck."

I think I might have dodged a bullet here because my situation wasn't really that serious in the end. Now all I have to do is put her back together and fire her up.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Just bumping this up because I just properly inserted the pics into my last post so that you can see them right in the post. Pretty neat stuff, tho' I must say I didn't follow the instructions exactly. That's the instructions here -

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=410147

What I did was follow them through step #14, where ya click on the paperclip again. When I did that, the "Manage Attachments" window came up and listed all four of my pics and gave me the choice to "insert images" (I think it said).

It was the only choice available. The next step (#15) says to "click the Remove button" but there was no such button. So I just chose the "insert" option (the only option) and then I previewed my post and the pictures (all 4) were inserted into my post as you see them now.

That's how it worked for me.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

So under your theory of engine dynamics,

Ayuh,.... I'm a Mechanic,... My fingers are in motors, Everyday....

A Million Bucks says if that motor starts at All,... It'll live a very short life....

Sorry man,... It's time to re-evaluate the goals of your project,+ the paths to get there....

 

[Don S]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Ayuh,.... I'm a Mechanic,... My fingers are in motors, Everyday....

A Million Bucks says if that motor starts at All,... It'll live a very short life....

Sorry man,... It's time to re-evaluate the goals of your project,+ the paths to get there....

And I am a Marine Tech and work on these things for a living.
And I agree with Bondo 100%
At a minimum, you need to pull the pistons, hone and see how it looks. it will take new rings, and who knows what the pistons will look like.
But it's up to you. fix it now, or blow it up and fix it later. Will cost a lot more if you blow it up. At that point you may need an engine.

 

[45Auto]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

I am VERY confident that the engine will be just as good as it was before this rusty situation came about.

It's obvious that you've never seen what a piston looks like that comes out of a rusty cylinder. What do you think happened to those rusted-up rings, and what scraped the rust off the cylinder walls the first time the piston moved? At a minimum that rear piston has rust-clogged locked-up rings.

As Bondo and Don said, either fix it right while you've got it apart or do it all over again (if you get lucky and don't totally destroy the engine trying to use it) a relatively short time from now.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Ayuh,.... I'm a Mechanic,... My fingers are in motors, Everyday....

Well, Ayuh,...., I'm impressed.

A Million Bucks says if that motor starts at All,... It'll live a very short life....

I'll take that bet. I'll let you know where to send the money. And I'll bet you another million that you'll welch on the bet and not pay up.

Sorry man,... It's time to re-evaluate the goals of your project,+ the paths to get there....

Is that what time it is? I thought it was time to make the doughnuts. Thanks for setting me straight on that, man.

And I am a Marine Tech and work on these things for a living.

I never cease to be impressed here.

And I agree with Bondo 100%

Oooooooooooooo, I'm really impressed now.

At a minimum, you need to pull the pistons, hone and see how it looks. it will take new rings, and who knows what the pistons will look like.

Ah, there's only one piston involved here. Try to keep up.

But it's up to you. fix it now, or blow it up and fix it later. Will cost a lot more if you blow it up. At that point you may need an engine.

You want in on the Bond-o bet action? I could use another mil. And I do agree -- if the engine blows up, I probably will need a new engine.

It's obvious that you've never seen what a piston looks like that comes out of a rusty cylinder.

Really? And you know this how? What's obvious to me is that you don't know what is and what isn't obvious. I mean, it's really pretty obvious, isn't it? What's also obvious is that I don't have a "rusty cylinder." Read on.

What do you think happened to those rusted-up rings, and what scraped the rust off the cylinder walls the first time the piston moved?

Well, the rusted-up ring (looks like only the top ring was affected) likely was freed up by the all the MMO and other solvents I soaked this cylinder with before and after I broke it loose. Given that my last (significant) dose of ATF / gasoline mix made its way completely past the rings and into the crankcase, I'd say that top ring is pretty well lubricated by now. I'm quite sure that if it's not mostly freed up at this point, it'll be completely freed up after the engine runs for just a bit.

The first time the piston moved, it moved down. I think I made that clear in this thread. The rust stayed where it was. There was no rust to scrape off below the rusty ring. Do I have to draw you a picture? Oh, wait, I gave you pictures, didn't I. Did you look at 'em?

At a minimum that rear piston has rust-clogged locked-up rings.

Amazing how you can tell that from as far away as you are. I can hardly even see you.

As Bondo and Don said, either fix it right while you've got it apart or do it all over again (if you get lucky and don't totally destroy the engine trying to use it) a relatively short time from now.

So you want in on the bet as well, huh? Let me note that I find your footer entirely appropriate; your opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it -- nuthin'.





Now, Gentlemen, how are we gonna work this bet? How long does my engine have to run before you'll concede? Expert #1 Bond-o says it will have "a very short life." That's not exactly a precise time frame. But he also seems to feel it won't even start at all, so what's say we start there. How much do I get for just starting it? How much for running it for 15 minutes? How much for an hour? And how much for 5 hours?

When do I win the 3 million? Make that 4 when Bond-o welches and doesn't pay up.

If you guys didn't come on like gangbusters with all this dribble you trotted out, I might take you seriously. So you'll excuse me when I don't.

But thanks for sharing anyway.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

If you guys didn't come on like gangbusters with all this dribble you trotted out, I might take you seriously. So you'll excuse me when I don't.

Ayuh,... It's Your fantasy,... Dream it anyway ya want,...
That don't change the Fact, that motor is Junk...

 

[badkins50]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

This is hillarious! I just wanted to post in this thread so I can follow up on it.

 

[T-Max]

Re: 'Stuck' Mercruiser 170 will not turn

Ayuh,... It's Your fantasy,... Dream it anyway ya want,...
That don't change the Fact, that motor is Junk...

Ayuh,... No, "junk" would more appropriately describe your opinion(s) than my motor. But that's just my opinion.

So do we have a bet? Seems like it. You talk the talk. Do you walk the walk?

Actually, I'm being a tad facetious, maybe even provocative, because I already know the answer. As do all the other thinking people who may be following this particular food fight.

I think maybe I should start referring to youse guys as "The Three Amigos"

Or how about "Tres Hombres"?

Tho' that might just be a tad too close to something of a dis to that lil' ol' band from Texas, and I have a lot of admiration for those guys.

I have no intention of taking "The-Three-Amigos-route," so it's getting time to put up or shut up. I'll be putting it back together and it will either blow up, as youse seers have foretold, or it won't.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with the idea of pulling piston #4 and putting new rings on it and cleaning it up a bit -- tho' it doesn't really need it. Keep in mind that it's just #4 that's affected here (Don still doesn't appear to have grasped that "Fact").

I just see it as being wholly unnecessary, and thus a whole lot of work for no real purpose. The cylinder cleaned up very nicely, so there's nothing to be gained there. The piston walls have no rust to speak of because aluminum doesn't rust and there's no corrosion on the top of the piston, where you'd obviously expect to find it if there were any to be concerned about. And the only possible source of any rust vis-a-vis the piston walls would come from the rings and the surface rust (see pics) that I've now removed.

And it's pretty obvious that there just ain't much of that rust at all. The top ring's a tad rusty but not enough to compromise its integrity. If youse guys really are any kind of decent mechanics, you know that to be true.

The only possible problem here would be if the oil ring were so clogged with rust that it couldn't perform its normal function. I don't see that as being any kind of a problem here at all. I'd be willing to bet you another million that if I did pull the piston, I'd confirm my view on that situation and find an oil ring in perfectly fine shape.

So what's the point of going thru everything that's involved with pulling this engine to get to where you have to get to in order to pull ONE piston?

That's ONE, Don. ONE. It's not 'pistons.' It's 'piston.' Singular.

Now, having said that, I fully understand that one bad piston situation can spoil the entire show. So I'll save you the trouble of pointing that out to me, as if I didn't already know.

And if I were a working mechanic working on this engine for some other owner, I'd be recommending what youse guys are recommending. But that's a whole other situation.

For me and MY engine, it's obviously a whole lot of work for nuthin'. This motor ain't 'junk' and it ain't gonna blow up. It's gonna start right up and run just fine and have a long and happy life no worse for wear as a result of this little situation.

If youse guys don't know that, then you don't know nuthin'.

But, as always, time will tell. And someone will win the bet and someone will lose the bet. Assuming we have a bet.

Do we?