Suggestions for more speed?

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chriscraft254

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Sparky, this is all your going to get! For the last time,go to this link, scroll to the bottom and there 'GUARANTEE' IS POSTED THERE!
http://www.nauticusinc.com/pdf/nauticus_smart_tabs_tech_info.pdf

Also, maybe you should check out the youtube videos on installation if you don't believe me on install time! There is nothing to it!

Bud, What industry do you work in?

How come the references I pulled up all show a loss on top end?

Here is what I read..........

" 15% Quicker Acceleration "
" 50% Less Bow Lift "
" 11% More Fuel Economy "
" 10% More Speed* "

" *Percentages based on cruising speeds 2500-3500 rpm. Results may vary, on boat and motor. "

Straight off the Brochure I had faxed to me, no claims to top end increase.

LOL...... this guy couldn't get more "press" if he paid for it.
 

QC

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Who are you responding to Sprky?


Then reread Post#32 because you are not understanding me. I agree that generally speaking more stuff in the wawa decreases speed. HOWEVER . . . if, yes if, you can use the tabs to change the weight balance in a hull where it will indeed be faster, then yes, they can allow for higher top speeds. This doesn't need to be considered as only applicable to a bad hull. Here's an example:

You've got a full width aft seat. three 200 lb Bubbas hop in there and all sit in that seat. Without tabs, on some hulls, I would ask one or more to move forward. Even though it would help with hole shot, and with porpoise potential, it would also limit up trim before blowout (ventilation). With tabs, Bubbas get to sit where they want, and I can run a more efficient trim setting (faster). So that day, under this scenario, the boat is "faster" with tabs than without. This is what I am trying to say about "allows" for higher top speeds.

I do not agree with Nauticus claims regarding SmartTabs at WOT, and I do not agree with chris' position, but I have discussed this with John (Nauticus) and Bennett as well, and both agree with my "allows" point. There is one tab supplier that says they can increase bow lift. I have forgotten who they are. Their point was that they have a shape that literally "sucks" the stern down at a neutral setting. While I can imagine that, I don't believe them without data. There is none. I have personal data with helm adjustable as they can be set neutral, and still control porpoise by extending the running surface. Again, this can allow for higher trim settings, and higher speeds.

There are other examples where tabs definitely allow higher speeds under certain conditions. That is different, because it is not a top speed discussion. But it is worth noting.
 

chriscraft254

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Tabs can increase the speed by controlling the attitude of the boat! Its really just that simple. Taking all loads out of the equation, no extra people, gear, side loads etc. The nauticus tabs keep the boat adjusting over waves more efficiently. They keep the boat more level while running compared to if you did not have them. They keep the position of the entire hull in a better position to ride across the water more efficiently. If the boat rocks side to side, chine walks, porpoises, rides to much stern low or high, these things all reduce the top end potential on speed and efficientcy.

Say you have 2 boats, same size, same set-ups, running in one foot chop.

Boat # 1 has no tabs. Boat # 2 has nauticus tabs.

Boat # 1 with no tabs will be riding bow higher and stern lower in the water. The thrust will be directed more to correcting the boats attitude than forward thrust.

Boat # 2 with tabs will be riding bow down some and stern lifted higher. The thrust is then directed at a better running attitude/ levelness of the boat in relation to the waters surface to attain better speeds.

Boat # 1 at wot will rock back and forth when going over uneven waves, may porpoise, and may chine walk costing speed top end.

Boat # 2 at wot will not rock, will ride more level, will not chine walk and will not porpoise all causing better speed gains.Because the boat is on a constant axis, it will continue to be effected all the time by wave conditions. The reaction time with the smart tabs installed helps the performance.

A boat is constantly on a teeter tottor type effect. It is on an axis, center of gravity. The better the boat is stabilized while going through the water, the better the performance is going to be.

If you had a road with pot holes all over it, what car would ride better and gain the most speed, the one with shocks or the one without shocks?
 

QC

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Boat # 1 with no tabs will be riding bow higher and stern lower in the water. The thrust will be directed more to correcting the boats attitude than forward thrust.
This is a good thing for top speed. That's where you are messed up chris.

Boat # 1 at wot will rock back and forth when going over uneven waves, may porpoise, and may chine walk costing speed top end.
This is where you are possibly right, but introduces discussion about hull design.

The car analogies never work . . . ;)
 

Sprky

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

I saw it on the internet, it must be true.

I love the pictographs in the link, Bud did you do those?
 

chriscraft254

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Ok qc, please do explain to me how my boats stern being 6 inches deeper would not cause more drag? I think this is where you are messing up.

We both know tabs increase lift at the stern, this puts the boat in a much better attitude for the thrust to be applied forward instead of thrusting the bow upward. yes, once the boat is at full lift, lifting the bow a little with engine trim will gain you a couple mph, more on very fast boats.

Without tabs,you are using thrust to propell the boat forward in a non-horizontal way in relation to the waters surface, you are not getting the most forward thrust potential from your motor when the boat is possitioned in that way. If instead you lift the boat more with tabs installed and the boat is at a better horizontal position in relation to the water, the thrust is going to be directed closer to where it should be,horizontal with surface of the water.

I don't understand why it is hard for people to understand that a boat is on an axis! The closer and more steady you can keep that axis to be level with the waters surface the better off you will be. That means from stern to bow and starboard to port.

Qc, let me ask you this, when is the boat most efficient? In my veiw it is when the boat is getting the most forward thrust with the very least resistance it can acheive. You don't acheive the most effecientcy by having to use the thrust of the motor to acheive the proper running attitude of the boat. Thats what the tabs are for, they help the boat get in a better running position so that the thrust applied is for forward propulsion instead of angled propulsion. The more the boat is out of the water and the more the boat is pushed forward instead of at a weird angle to the waters surface the better.

Now. comparing a car to a boat does work when you are talking about resistance. The car hitting bumps in the road is just like a boat hitting waves. Its the same thing. It is resistance. Those pot holes will be different depths and different sizes just like every wave out there. Though the process of acheiving the best ride forward is different, the comparison can be used. The tighter a suspension on a car, the more performance based it is. The sloppier the suspension is, the sloppier and less performance you will get out of it.

A boat is basically the same with self adjusting tabs. Remember waves are those pot holes. Without tabs a boat basically has no suspension, which means the boat is left to absorb the roll, tilt, pitch, crunch, drift, ect when it hits a wave. The wave transfers its energy to the boat causing the boat to react violently. Does the bow of the boat help knock down some of the hurt from the waves,sure it does. But the boat is still constantly on an axis so it is constantly being thrown around from starboard to port to bow to stern, etc.

With tabs deployed that self adjust, when the boat hits waves, the boat reacts much faster to the energy that has been transfered to the boat from the waves. The tabs push back,making the ride smoother and adjusting the boat reaction time as to make it more effecient. The boat will not continue to rock back and forth releasing the energy from what was transferred from the wave. Instead, the boat fights back, the tabs steady the boat faster when the boat is hit with resistance/forces from a wave.

This is why you here me say sometimes that smart tabs will indeed do things that regular tabs will not, because the tabs adjust the boat constantly to the changing conditions to absorb energy that is transfered from the waves to the boat. Potholes/waves! Regular tabs will help if the operator has adjusted the tabs to the correct position, but you may lose efficientcy compared to a self adjusting tab.

Here is another way to look at it, say you have a boat in a bath tub. When you push that boat with one finger what would it do? The boat would rock from side to side until the energy from your push of the finger is absorbed. Now, put that same boat in the tub in motion! While in motion, hit the boat on one side or ride over a wave, the boat is going to do the same thing, it is going to rock until the boat has absorbed and displaced all that energy.

The boat with automatic tabs installed has something to fight back against that push/energy/resistance. The tabs become the shock absorber to absorb that energy. When the boat is pushed from one side causing it to rock, the automatic tabs will push back, limiting the effects of the push. When the boat goes over waves, it is solidified alot faster after the boat has hit that wave with a automatic trim tab.

Ok, what does this all relate to, faster response time from the boat to adjust to the changing conditions of waves! What does that translate into, more effecient running which in turn can cause a gain in speed!
 

chriscraft254

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

Amazing sprky, every time I have provided you any type of proof, you just come back trying to bash the product.

You first said I would never see them on a bass boat, then you said I would never see a speed gain, then you said that it wasn't in there Guarantee that you indeed are Guaranteed a speed increase from 2 to 4 mph.

I have simply proved you wrong on every one of those things you stated and provide you with the links to prove it. Until you have actually tested them and run them for yourself, I think your opinions are useless!

You can lead a horse to the water, but......

I saw it on the internet, it must be true.

I love the pictographs in the link, Bud did you do those?
 

QC

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

In my veiw it is when the boat is getting the most forward thrust with the very least resistance it can acheive. You don't acheive the most effecientcy by having to use the thrust of the motor to acheive the proper running attitude of the boat.
This is the only thing you need to think about. If a part of your "thrust" is used putting the bow up in the air, then that can be more efficient (faster) than more boat on the water even if the "thrust" is parallel to the direction of travel. Water is thicker than air.

Potholes and waves, got very little in common. Sometimes chop is faster than glass, for the same reason as above, less boat in the wawa . . . ;)

I don't want to close this thread and make my post final. But this needs to stop. Ask yourself "why are bass boats always trimmed out if "thrust" angle is the only factor?" It isn't . . . In fact, boats are often faster into the wind for this exact reason despite what everybody writes here. If the headwind helps lift the boat out of the water, it can indeed be faster . . . water sucks. Sucks power that is.
 

chriscraft254

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

This is the only thing you need to think about. If a part of your "thrust" is used putting the bow up in the air, then that can be more efficient (faster) than more boat on the water even if the "thrust" is parallel to the direction of travel. Water is thicker than air.

Potholes and waves, got very little in common. Sometimes chop is faster than glass, for the same reason as above, less boat in the wawa . . . ;)

I don't want to close this thread and make my post final. But this needs to stop. Ask yourself "why are bass boats always trimmed out if "thrust" angle is the only factor?" It isn't . . . In fact, boats are often faster into the wind for this exact reason despite what everybody writes here. If the headwind helps lift the boat out of the water, it can indeed be faster . . . water sucks. Sucks power that is.

Why would you close a thread just because people don't agree? I don't understand! This discussion does pertain to the original posters question and I have not seen any violations to the forum rules. I understand I will not probably get an answer except by pm since that is also in the forum rules. You seem to think you are right and have no problem stating your opinion, why is it wrong for others to do the same?

I agree with you completely that you can't base the speed or boat ride on one thing and I never would, It is a combination of many things that have to be considered. And I feel like I consider most of them where others don't. The few times using the motor to improve speed is in the equation though is when you have already maxxed out the hulls performance by lifting and stabilizing the boat. I already said you can gain speed by trimming out the motor. But there is alot more that is in play.

I disagree with you completely , pot holes and waves are exactly the same thing. They provide uneven ride and forces that cuase resistance/rough ride, energy transformation, etc. The boat or car is most definately effected in a negative manner when there is poor handling or more resistance which is what poor handling is.

Waves by the way do not just slow you down by hitting the bow, the stern has to go over those same waves. If the stern is not lifted by tabs, it will be deeper in the stern and be effected more negatively that a boat with tabs.
 

QC

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Re: Suggestions for more speed?

chris,

I have to close threads when one guy can't let it go and effectively hijacks a thread. I know that I have continued the debate, but it is important to me, in technical fora, that inaccuracies are not perpetuated.

I will end it with:
pot holes and waves are exactly the same thing

Dude, please . . .

Closed . . . I tried, and probably hastened it, but done.
 
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