Surge to electric over hydraulic low cost conversion

[bruceb58]

Your current actuator will be fine assuming it's already a 7000# disc actuator.

Not going to a second axle because the fines aren't high doesn't seem like a good reason to not get brakes on the second axle if that is the prudent thing to do.

 

[Thalasso]

PA, and they do require brakes on all axles but trailers around here do not usually get checked and if you do the cost of the fine is cheaper than the inspection of the trailer so most people just run what they got.

I live outside of Pgh and have a class7 insp lic. True boat trailers are rarely looked at.Only if there is a accident. I don't even have my triple axle inspected. You will see an improvement with another set of brakes.
The fine will be more then the inspection if your caught. Insp $20.00.

 

[smokeonthewater]

In addition to adding the brakes to the second axle you also may need to change your driving style.... I suspect that you are currently braking constantly from the top of the hill to the bottom... Next time try this.... Determine the maximum safe speed you will attain... say 60 mph for the hill.... downshift out of overdrive and brake to 5 or 10 mph under your safe speed and release the brakes.... when you reach your safe speed brake again..... repeat.

Most surge systems have a spring to prevent the brakes from activating without a fair amount of pressure against the coupler and to help them release when the brakes on the tow vehicle are released..... This braking technique is specifically intended to prevent over heating the brakes....

Last you MAY be able to increase the resistance of the spring if you have one or add one if you don't to keep the trailer brakes from activating under light braking but still be fully functional 'when it counts' .... an extra 200-300 lbs of force on the tow rig won't over tax it's brakes but it might keep the trailer brakes off when you are engine braking

 

[nailem]

Not going to a second axle because the fines aren't high doesn't seem like a good reason to not get brakes on the second axle if that is the prudent thing to do.

The trailer came with the boat and was set up with one set of brakes. Just because a state decided to try to generate revenue and start inspecting trailers doesn't make it any less safe than the day before . With that said I understand having brakes on both axles would be better but when PA started this law most people did not run out to retrofit their old trailers. UFP says there is a different actuator for dual axle brakes but I can't see what would be different.

 

[nailem]

In addition to adding the brakes to the second axle you also may need to change your driving style.... I suspect that you are currently braking constantly from the top of the hill to the bottom... Next time try this.... Determine the maximum safe speed you will attain... say 60 mph for the hill.... downshift out of overdrive and brake to 5 or 10 mph under your safe speed and release the brakes.... when you reach your safe speed brake again..... repeat. Most surge systems have a spring to prevent the brakes from activating without a fair amount of pressure against the coupler and to help them release when the brakes on the tow vehicle are released..... This braking technique is specifically intended to prevent over heating the brakes.... Last you MAY be able to increase the resistance of the spring if you have one or add one if you don't to keep the trailer brakes from activating under light braking but still be fully functional 'when it counts' .... an extra 200-300 lbs of force on the tow rig won't over tax it's brakes but it might keep the trailer brakes off when you are engine braking

The hills that I am talking about are back mountain roads speed are closer to 15-30 very steep tight curves. Most of the time I try to not brake but keep the speed low and use lower gears. These rods are so steep and tight. The lake is Norris lake in TN.

 

[smokeonthewater]

I was born in Knoxville.... Raccoon valley road.... It's been a long time but I still remember/miss those roads .... Just try it... let off the gas just before you top the hill and scrub speed... then use a little higher gear than you usually do and brake before speed gets too high or as you approach the curve... the whole point is to give the brakes a chance to cool... also when you are engine braking heavily you are working the surge brakes constantly just as if you were riding the brake pedal.

 

[bruceb58]

The trailer came with the boat and was set up with one set of brakes.

So was mine but I changed it to both right away once I bought it. I think the way they get away with it here is that it's legal to have one axle with the unladen trailer.

 

[oldjeep]

So was mine but I changed it to both right away once I bought it. I think the way they get away with it here is that it's legal to have one axle with the unladen trailer.

It is also legal to have brakes on only one axle in many states, so it depends on where the boat was originally purchased. I always have to check when we get trailers because in WI it is legal to have brakes on just one axle and MN requires them on all axles.

 

[nailem]

So was mine but I changed it to both right away once I bought it. I think the way they get away with it here is that it's legal to have one axle with the unladen trailer.

No doubt that more brakes would be better, I'm not arguing that. I'm just trying to justify the expense verses how much I use the trailer. Besides the two trips a year the boat is in the water and the trailer is sitting in my driveway. What started this is the purchase of my new truck. It has the built in brake control and everything is intergraded. If I had the H/E brakes as soon as I plugged them in the truck would recognize the trailer and turns on a lot of features that and I know the E/H brakes are better.
I think for now I'm just going to add brakes to the second axle and try to keep my eye out for a used E/H setup. As long as you think my actuator is ok to add a second axle to? I've seen guys pick up used trailers for $2,000. if I could find the whole trailer with a E/H set up I would swap the E/H with my surge brakes and re-sell the trailer for $1,500.
thanks for everyone's help and comments

 

[oldjeep]

If the manufacturer of the brakes is telling you that you should be running a different actuator then I would listen. Might be worth asking them if you can replace just the master cylinder or if the whole actuator actually needs to be replaced. The difference is likely the bore of the master cylinder, which translates to the amount of fluid it moves.

 

[bruceb58]

What is the model of the actuator that you have?
Just read that UFP's base model is for just one axle. That's different than other brands of actuators. Top of page 3
http://www.ufpnet.com/Portals/0/PDFs...aintenance.pdf

I would not buy a used E/H unit. If it's been sitting and there was moisture in the fluid, there could be corrosion in the pump assembly. It's why I flush mine every 2 years.

You do 2000 miles each year including 2 very long trips. You are probably doing more towing than a lot of people. The length of towing is actually irrelevant. You do what you need to do to be safe.

 

[oldjeep]

Apparently there is a difference of some sort. The A60 series is the actuator that BoatMate uses and what I've got on my trailer
#34626 is for single axle
#34627 is for dual axle

http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-A...c-Drum-brakes/
Same price here for both, so whatever the difference is, it must not be a big deal. Interesting thing is that they list the same replacement MC for all of their couplers, so it is not a MC difference.
http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-3...se-w/solenoid/


Found the difference - it is the pushrod, so you could probabally just replace that.
http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-Pushrod-Assembly-35112-Drum--Single-Disc/
http://www.pacifictrailers.com/UFP-Pushrod-Assembly-35114-2-Axle-Brakes/

 

[nailem]

Thank you for looking that up for me. I do have the A-60. So it looks like I'll need two vault hub assemblies two calipers and a push rod.

 

[bruceb58]

Don't the UFP disc brakes use integrated hubs with the rotor? You can't just slip a disc over an idler hub can you?

 

[oldjeep]

Don't the UFP disc brakes use integrated hubs with the rotor? You can't just slip a disc over an idler hub can you?

His list sounds good as long as the existing axle trailing arms have the mounts for the caliper plates.

 

[bruceb58]

His list sounds good as long as the existing axle trailing arms have the mounts for the caliper plates.

Ok..so the vault hub assembly includes the disc?

 

[oldjeep]

Ok..so the vault hub assembly includes the disc?

Pretty sure it does. He has already bought and replaced 2 of them so I would assume that he knows what comes with them.

One more addition, and the biggest pain in the rear is that he needs some brake lines and fittings to plumb the new brakes.

NailEm - if you need a couple pictures to see how they route the lines from the factory, let me know. We have different boats, but I'm assuming that boatmate makes their custom trailers 99% the same and just alters the bunk configuration for the specific boats.

 

[nailem]

Oldjeep, pictures would be great. The Vault hubs I bought before had the discs on them but I do need to see if it has the caliper mounts.

 

[nailem]

Looks like it is still going to be pricey. $250 per hub $85 per caliper comes with pads $15 push rod $25 guessing for other parts

 

[oldjeep]

Looks like it is still going to be pricey. $250 per hub $85 per caliper comes with pads $15 push rod $25 guessing for other parts

These must be non vault hubs? $250 for everything for one axle.
http://www.pacifictrailers.com/trailer-buddy-parts-complete-kits/