testing solenoid and where to get replacement

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Well, it has been quite a while since I replied to this thread, but I have actually tried several things since then to try to solve this problem, but unfortunately I still have the same problem. :faint2:

I did order the mercury starter rebuild kit and I carefully replaced all the brushes and put everything back together. I did notice the new springs were much "springier" than the old ones. But when i tried to start again I just had the exact same symptoms - starter will turn slowly for a second or two but that is all. So I just figured the starter was bad (it did have a lot of burnt smell when I took it apart) so I ordered a new one. So then the new one came in and I installed it and still had exact same symptom. I am not too upset about having a second starter since I figure now both of them are probably fine and it was only $79 for a new one online to have as a backup. So anyway even though I thought I had ruled out the solenoid being the problem since I had wired the battery before straight to the starter, I went ahead and ordered a new solenoid since it was only $22 online and I still could not get it started. But today I put in the new solenoid and have same exact issue.

I had pretty much ruled out the battery since I the problem began because the battery is only a few months old but I took it into where I bought it and had them test it tonight on two different machines and both machines said my battery was good. The only thing kind of suspicious about the battery is they said it was "overcharged". It is rated for 550 CA and it tested at 803 CA. I do keep the battery on a battery maintainer / trickle charger. Is it possible the trickle charger has malfunctioned and overcharged the battery and would that keep it from starting?

The only other thing I can think of are the battery cables. But I have examined them and they do seem okay - no noticeable cracks or anything. Is there a procedure for testing battery cables?

When I began with this problem I was determined not to just throw new parts at it and I have attempted to troubleshoot, but at this point I am running out of things to replace anyway. :lol:

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

1,Remove the plugs then try to turn it over.
Work?? Do a compression test?
2,check the cables as you try to turn it over, look for hot spots.
3, drop the lower unit and see if it helps.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Thank you for the additional suggestions jerryjerry05. Before I saw your last post I actually did a couple more tests this morning. First I discovered that my car battery is the same size and same CCA as what is in the boat so I removed my car battery and hooked it up to the boat and found exact same symptoms. So I feel I have ruled out the battery at this point.

Also I used my jumper cables from battery to solenoid and engine block basically bypassing my battery cables and still had same symptoms. I was trying to see if my battery cables were bad. And then finally I removed the battery cables and examined them closely and found no noticeable issues. And I tested both of them with an Ohm meter an they read almost zero - very little resistance.

I will try removing all the spark plugs next.

Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Sometimes the compression can be low in one cylinder and it causes a "lock" and it turns over slow.
Also the upper bearing in the drive gets water and it also locks.
Just hope it's none of the above???

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Okay I removed all the spark plugs and now when I turn the key the starter seems to turn at normal speed with no resistance and the engine turns over easily. Does this mean I probably have low compression in one of the cylinders as you were describing?

I guess I need to do a compression test. I do not have a compression test kit so I guess I will get one of those next.

Thanks.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Okay here is another update. I tested the compression today and found the following:

#1 = 110
#2 = 150
#3 = 152
#4 = 149

So it looks like cylinder number one is a little low. This could be why it runs rough at idle? However, I am not convinced that this is why it will not start. Could this much difference in compression in one cylinder cause it to not turn over quick enough to not start?

What I am really wondering about now is that while testing today I noticed that the gears in the bendix get stuck in the flywheel with the bendix in the extended position after the very first start attempt. It does this on both my old and new starter. See pictures below. It seems like there is not enough clearance in the teeth of the flywheel and the bendix so that the bendix would release and so the starter motor never really gets enough momentum after the first starting attempt. It is so tight I can't even knock it down with a hammer - to get it back down I have to loosen the starter mounting bolts and tilt out and down the starter. It seems to me that this might be my main problem? What is strange is I have this same problem on both the existing and new starter. I am wondering if the flywheel is wrong or maybe I need a different brand or OEM starter. Has anyone else seen this type of problem on force flywheels and aftermarket starters? I would definitely be willing to pay full price for an OEM starter if it would take care of this problem.

Thanks

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Yes 1 piston low on comp will do that.
The bendix will disengage when the motor speeds up past the bendixs speed as it starts.
Sent U a PM

 

[Jiggz]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Normally the bendix gear should still come down due to the force of the spring on the top. Although, if the motor coughs or starts, it will be overrun by the flywheel and come down. It is important the bendix gear comes down before starting to enable the starter to develop momentum before engaging the flywheel. As for the slow turning I can see two causes, the bendix not coming down thus the starter unable to develop momentum before being loaded and the 2nd it could be the top piston has heavy rubbing, ring and cylinder, which also causes the loss of compression. Recommend removing head and inspecting the top piston.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Thank you for the replies. I was hoping I would not have to go into taking the engine apart, but I am not terribly surprised because it has been difficult to start since I got it and it has ran rough at low speeds. I will try to remove the head and will post pictures.

Thanks.

 

[boomer2506]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Try this see if it works for you.My 1994 150 dose the same thing you are having trouble with.Put motor in neutral give it about half throttle and crank it .I don't know why it works on mine but it dose.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Thanks boomer for the idea, but this is actually how I have already been trying to start it. Since I got it it has never really ran well in neutral - I have always had to have the throttle about half way up to keep it running.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

So here is an update on follow up on suggestion to remove head so I can look inside. I was able to get all but one of the head bolts off without too much problem. And I have the head cover plate off. However, one of the head bolts broke off. :grumpy: Please see pictures below. Any suggestions on best way to remove this last bolt that is missing the bolt head? Any special tools I should try or should I just drill it out?

Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

Bummer,i have one to replace it.
Just get a propane torch,some PB or WD and spray.Spray and heat and spray and heat.
Since all the other bolts have come out you can spin the head and move it around.
Heat,spray,tap with a hammer or a vice grip.
It's not a bad situation.
Just make sure you don't pry on any mating surfaces.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

From personal experience, I'd rather do the following.
Grind the surface to even the remaining top portion to make center drilling easier. DO NOT GRIND IT DOWN TO THE BLOCK INSTEAD JUST TO EVEN OUT THE TOP PORTION.

Get the proper extracting tool and right size drill bit. Center punch the broken bolt. Start with a small pilot drill bit, i.e. less than 1/8" and drill about 3/4~1" deep. Next re-drill hole using a larger drill bit (about 3/16") but this time go all the way through the bolt. Thereafter, spray and soak with WD-40 for about an hour. With the bolt drilled all the way through, now the WD-40 can start working from the bottom of the bolt to its sides.

Using the extracting tool you should be able to extract this bolt easily. The bolt body is only 5/16" so you do not want to use a large drill bit which can weaken the entire bolt. If not, then start applying heat. Caution, do not heat the extracting tool, it makes it brittle and easily breaks thereafter.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement - broken head bolt

Correct me if I'm wrong but even with that broken bolt, you should now be able to remove that head right? You might need to pry it off with a flat tip screwdriver. Thus exposing more of the broken stud thus making it easier to remove with a vise grip or even a small pipe wrench.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Here is a quick update. First I gave it another shot with the vice grips after having the PB on it overnight. However, I could not get it to budge and I was worried about scratching up the surface so I gave up on that approach.

So next I did grind down the surface smooth as suggested by Jiggz. And then I think I got the drill centered pretty good and I drilled all the way through as suggested. See picture below - not sure the picture shows but the drill hole does go clean through. This was an adventure in itself as I snapped one drill bit in the process even though I thought I was going slow. But fortunately I was able to fish it out with paper clips and resumed with another bit. Then I really soaked it again with PB. I have not used WD yet - is there an advantage to the combination of both of those? Anyway, I got the extractor in the drilled hole and tapped it in lightly and put some torque on it but it still will not budge. I am a little worried about twisting to much because I do not want to snap the extractor off. But so far it is still stuck. :blue:

Anyway, maybe I will have more luck after letting the PB work overnight or even a couple of nights. Also, I was wondering too about just slipping the head off over the broken bolt. I don't know if the head has any threads or not. I did twist the head around a little but I did not use too much force for fear of making things worse.

As far as heat - I think that might be my next thing to try as suggested by Jerry, but I am a little concerned about the gas line right next to this problem bolt. I may have to remove that gas line and put some sort of protection barrier around so I don't start a fire.

Anyway, let me know what you guys think and if you think of any other techniques. Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Like I suggested.
Spray,heat,WD.
Then twist the head.
It will come right off.
No threads on the head,look inside the other holes.
You guys are expending way to much energy on a simple project .
The reason it broke is the corrosion is expanding in the space around the bolt.
The heat and PB/WD and tapping with a hammer will loosen it.
Get that easy out,out.
Push on the top of the head, you will need to break the grip of the head gasket.
The easy out would be good on a bolt broken off at the top of the engine block,not a broken head bolt.
Remove the electronics and pump.
I've never melted ANYTHING while removing a problem bolt.
I was expecting pics of the pistons. Bring it on over. Sebastian's not that far.

 

[jdamron]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Well, I may take you up your offer Jerry before this is over.

Anyway, I did make a little progress this afternoon I think. I had other stuff going on earlier today, but I did pick up one of those propane torches and it is a little looser that before. I removed the fuel pump and lines and moved the electronics out of the way. Then I applied the torch and sprayed and now I can moved the head back about forth about 1/4 inch each way. The problem is it seems one of the pistons is sticking up and so I can't swing the head all the way around or I am sure it would be off by now. The broken bolt seems to just flex really and is not turning in the head hole just yet. But the head itself is a lot more loose than it was before. I did get some flat pry bars under it but I did not use much pressure for fear of damaging the surfaces. I am planning to let the oils work in overnight and try some more tomorrow. It really seems like it should just slip off, but it is not there yet. Here is a pic. Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Try turning the flywheel a bit.
Look in the piston holes and see when they are at the farthest.
If you got it loose a little??
It's almost off.
If you HAVE to use a pry bar?
Between hole2 and 3 on the side of the head is a spot you can pry.
It's up off the mating surface.Last pic,down just a bit from the regulator on the head.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: testing solenoid and where to get replacement

Sent U a PM