Testing Surge Brakes

[lncoop]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

If you depress the plunger or engage the coupler manually (the method recommended by Titan) you will know immediately whether your brakes are functioning because the wheels will either stop then release following the release of manual pressure or they won't. At that point you can begin to diagnose whether further action is necessary up to and including repair/adjustment. Clearly there are differences of opinion regarding how to test surge brakes. That's because there's more than one way to do it. Just keep in mind, the tangential nature of this post notwithstanding, they are merely opinions.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

tpenfield- post#2 is correct. Any other way for drum or disc brakes is wrong. If you are checked by a D.O.T inspector, he will pull the safty lever and tell you to try and move forward. If you can turn the wheels the brakes are out of adjustment. Jacking the trailer up and checking them doesn't let you know if they are applying all the way

This is incorrect. So is post #2. A safety inspection will involve jacking up the trailer, making sure all wheels spin freely, then pulling the emergency lever and making sure all wheels are locked solid. This is the ONLY acceptable method in Pa. I am a Safety Inspector.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

... A safety inspection will involve jacking up the trailer, making sure all wheels spin freely, then pulling the emergency lever and making sure all wheels are locked solid. This is the ONLY acceptable method in Pa. I am a Safety Inspector.

Before I begin, let me state that this is NOT to be taken personally by anyone.
And the word YOU is meant in the plural sense, as in "You All".

That may be how a Safety Inspection is done, but that does not verify that the brakes will actually work if needed.
A wheel jacked up in the air, with brake pads that are completely shot, metal on metal, will come to an instant screeching stop, if you pull the emergency lever.
But will be nearly worthless if needed to actually stop the loaded trailer.

The operative phrase above is "... and making sure all wheels are locked solid ... "
Just how do you make sure the wheels are locked solid with them in the air?
How many hundreds of lb-ft of torque do you apply to the wheels to verify that?

Again, with no offense intended ... Just because a government agency has specified an acceptable test method, doesn't mean that is the best, or even a valid, way to do it.

Would anyone be willing to state, In Writing, and Guarantee your Safety and Liability, that brakes tested with the state approved method, are fully functional and as safe as designed , for use in traveling through the mountains of any state?

Locked wheels, being dragged in a skid, behind the tow vehicle, is easy to do, Safe, and a Graphic Demonstration of how well the brakes are holding.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

This is incorrect. So is post #2. A safety inspection will involve jacking up the trailer, making sure all wheels spin freely, then pulling the emergency lever and making sure all wheels are locked solid. This is the ONLY acceptable method in Pa. I am a Safety Inspector.

Well, then i guess the inspections i have been so privileged to be invited to, have been done all wrong. If what you say is true, then the State Police (D.O.T ) inspectors need to all get on the same page.Could you tell me where i could find the written acceptable procedure.What kind of Safety Insp.are you?( No criticism meant.)

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

To put the issue in perspective, I pose this scenario, especially for those that have changed the brakes on their personal vehicles in their own driveways.

After replacing the brake pads/shoes, you will customarily give the tires a good spin by hand just to see that nothing is dragging, and then lean in the driver's door and pump the pedal with your hand to move the pads/shoes out to their proper position.
You will certainly have noticed that the wheels came to an abrupt halt, even with the engine off, and just by using your hand.
The brakes appear to be working properly. You have no reason to suspect otherwise.

Now, Do you .... ?

A. Test the brakes by starting the vehicle and driving very slowly and hitting the brakes to make sure they Really stop before you get moving fast enough to do any real damage.
And then take it around the block trying the brakes at progressively higher speed and a bit more aggressively each time to assure yourself that all is truly well.

OR ...

B. Hand the keys to the wife as you load the kids into the back seat because they are going shopping and they will let you know when they get back, if anything was wrong with the brakes?
Remember, they locked up to a complete halt with just hand pressure, so they must be perfectly fine.

Hint: "'B" is the WRONG Answer!

 

[flightdoc]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Don't understand why b is the wrong answer. I know I would not want to be in the car if the brakes were bad. I think talking your wife into testing the brakes is a genius idea. I am going to do that next time.

 

[nigels]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Thanks guys, I have been looking on the web at actuators to try to discover which one I have, but not found mine yet, mine has a lockout lever thing on the starboard side, nothing to do with the breakaway cable,( I don't think). Does any one know the make and model of my actuator?

I am describing this from memory, I have no pictures of it and am in Portugal right now and the boat is in BC in storage. The trailer is an 1999 Escort but the Actuator looks relatively new.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

To put the issue in perspective, I pose this scenario, especially for those that have changed the brakes on their personal vehicles in their own driveways.

After replacing the brake pads/shoes, you will customarily give the tires a good spin by hand just to see that nothing is dragging, and then lean in the driver's door and pump the pedal with your hand to move the pads/shoes out to their proper position.
You will certainly have noticed that the wheels came to an abrupt halt, even with the engine off, and just by using your hand.
The brakes appear to be working properly. You have no reason to suspect otherwise.

Now, Do you .... ?

A. Test the brakes by starting the vehicle and driving very slowly and hitting the brakes to make sure they Really stop before you get moving fast enough to do any real damage.
And then take it around the block trying the brakes at progressively higher speed and a bit more aggressively each time to assure yourself that all is truly well.
[/COLOR]

This is perzactly what I do, Uncle Willie (within the context of trailers of course). Once I've verified that the actuator is depressing the plunger which is in turn pushing fluid out to the brakes and thereby stopping the wheels I begin gradually road testing in the hood, but IMO there's no point in road testing until one verifies the system is working properly. On my rig the emergency breakaway lever merely bypasses the actuating part of the coupler and depresses the plunger into the MC on its own, so a visual inspection of its components satisfies me provided the rest of the system is functioning properly. YMMV.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

This all seems way complicated.. . . .

Surge disc setups are so much easier to test

 

[lncoop]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

This all seems way complicated.. . . .

Surge disc setups are so much easier to test

It's not really complicated. We just make it seem that way by arguing about it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

This all seems way complicated.. . . .

Surge disc setups are so much easier to test

Hate to tell you this but they get tested the same way

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

You always have to do the spin test. Going down the road and doing some stops may let you know that some of the wheels have brakes that are working. The main problem with trailer drum brakes is the wheel cylinders getting corroded and stop working. The spin test at least verifies these.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Before I begin, let me state that this is NOT to be taken personally by anyone.
And the word YOU is meant in the plural sense, as in "You All".

That may be how a Safety Inspection is done, but that does not verify that the brakes will actually work if needed.
A wheel jacked up in the air, with brake pads that are completely shot, metal on metal, will come to an instant screeching stop, if you pull the emergency lever.
But will be nearly worthless if needed to actually stop the loaded trailer.

The operative phrase above is "... and making sure all wheels are locked solid ... "
Just how do you make sure the wheels are locked solid with them in the air?
How many hundreds of lb-ft of torque do you apply to the wheels to verify that?

Again, with no offense intended ... Just because a government agency has specified an acceptable test method, doesn't mean that is the best, or even a valid, way to do it.

Would anyone be willing to state, In Writing, and Guarantee your Safety and Liability, that brakes tested with the state approved method, are fully functional and as safe as designed , for use in traveling through the mountains of any state?

Locked wheels, being dragged in a skid, behind the tow vehicle, is easy to do, Safe, and a Graphic Demonstration of how well the brakes are holding.

Well, then i guess the inspections i have been so privileged to be invited to, have been done all wrong. If what you say is true, then the State Police (D.O.T ) inspectors need to all get on the same page.Could you tell me where i could find the written acceptable procedure.What kind of Safety Insp.are you?( No criticism meant.)

I am a state certified safety inspector for the state of Pa. You are getting confused with what the State Police inspector does. You can't take some small part and assume it applies to all things. We are NOT talking about tractor trailers here, we are talking about <14,000 lb gvwr trailers here. Yes we can tell if a trailer brake is locked solid or not, that's part of the training to be a certified inspector. Along with the locking test, we also pull wheels and check the brake material condition visually, Yes if I did an inspection on a set of trailer brakes, I would guarantee that, at that moment, they were functioning EXACTLY as designed and would work as intended. That's why ones that pass get a sticker saying they are safe to be on the road.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Ok, there is more misunderstanding here than I can grasp.

Is there anyone that agrees with this statement ... ?

-----
A proper way to test the brakes on your trailer is to ...

1. Jack the wheels off the ground.
2. Get the wheels spinning by hand.
3. Apply the brakes by any and all means at your disposal.

If the wheels abruptly stop turning, your Brakes are operating properly, and are safe for the road!
------

Anyone?

 

[lncoop]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Ok, there is more misunderstanding here than I can grasp.

Is there anyone that agrees with this statement ... ?

-----
A proper way to test the brakes on your trailer is to ...

1. Jack the wheels off the ground.
2. Get the wheels spinning by hand.
3. Apply the brakes by any and all means at your disposal.

If the wheels abruptly stop turning, your Brakes are operating properly, and are safe for the road!
------

Anyone?

Probably not, since no one said that in the first place.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

... You are getting confused with what the State Police inspector does. ... Along with the locking test, we also pull wheels and check the brake material condition visually, Yes if I did an inspection on a set of trailer brakes, I would guarantee that, at that moment, they were functioning EXACTLY as designed and would work as intended. That's why ones that pass get a sticker saying they are safe to be on the road.

Supernova;
Your original post sounded like this was a two minute inspection, Kick the tires, step on the brake, if the wheels stoped an the pedal didn't hit the floor, it passed.

It now sound much more reasonable... Pull the Wheels, inspect the pads, and test the holding power.
Not exactly something you do on the roadside.

I feel better, Now I'll let you drive behind me!

I am still interested in the locking test.
How do you measure how well the brakes are holding.
Do you use dedicated test equipment or just a big torque wrench on the hub?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Probably not, since no one said that in the first place.

That is why there is all this confusion.
I do not understand these quotes then ...

... if the wheels are spinning off the ground and depressing the plunger causes them to come to a complete stop the brakes are applying completely. ...

If you depress the plunger or engage the coupler manually ... you will know immediately whether your brakes are functioning because the wheels will either stop, then release following the release of manual pressure, or they won't. ...

... A safety inspection will involve jacking up the trailer, making sure all wheels spin freely, then pulling the emergency lever and making sure all wheels are locked solid ...

I am confused???

 

[lncoop]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

That is why there is all this confusion.
I do not understand these quotes then ...







I am confused???

I sincerely apologize if I'm the source of your confusion. That's not my intent, but I don't know how else to convey my opinion (and clearly not mine alone) of the corrrect way to determine whether surge brakes are functioning properly. I don't see how this method can be in dispute when it's recommended by the manufacturers. As I said earlier I agree that following the spin test one should tow the trailer around for final verification, but if the coupler will stop the wheels when being actuated by hand then release them it will do the same when being actuated by the tow vehicle. Following the spin test one still needs to verify the brakes are properly adjusted, there are no leaks, and the emergency breakaway mechanism is in good condition. That's a little more methodical and substantive than the aforementioned.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

I am confused???

So explain your testing. How do you know for sure all 4 wheel's brakes are functioning? Obviouslly pulling the trailer down the road and stopping won't do it. If 3 of the 4 brakes are working how do you detect the 4th is bad?

I still say its a two step process and the first step is jacking each wheel up and make sure the brakes shoes/pads are at least being applied. You are then testing the part that is getting dunked in water and is the most likely culprit for brakes not working.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Testing Surge Brakes

Ok, there is more misunderstanding here than I can grasp.

Is there anyone that agrees with this statement ... ?

-----
A proper way to test the brakes on your trailer is to ...

1. Jack the wheels off the ground.
2. Get the wheels spinning by hand.
3. Apply the brakes by any and all means at your disposal.

If the wheels abruptly stop turning, your Brakes are operating properly, and are safe for the road!
------

Anyone?

That is why there is all this confusion.
I do not understand these quotes then ...







I am confused???

The main confusion seems to lie in the assumptions some on here have made as to how the brakes are tested with the wheels in the air. It has been stated by those in the wrong that just spinning the wheels and applying the brakes to see if the wheels stop is not an effective test...and on this point they are correct.....that is not the way the test is done....BUT just because they are going about the test incorrectly does not make the test itself an invalid way to test the brake system.

The correct way to perform the test here in PA. is to apply the brakes, THEN try to move the wheels. If they are applied properly, you won't be able to turn them very far using any reasonable method. If you can turn any one of them, then that brake assembly probably needs to be investigated further.

I can't think of a single instance where we would attempt to drag the trailer with the brakes fully applied. Pretty much all the tests we use to verify the brake system is functioning correctly can be done without ever moving the trailer.....or even having it hooked to a tow vehicle.