The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

[Outsider]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Clearly, that person isn't here.

Let's see. You're from Canada, you heard a rumor that affects Canadian dealers (if true), you came here for clarification, and now your panties are in a wad because you received no joy. Really?

I'd have thought the obvious source of clarification would be the dealer who told you he could no longer sell bangers. But I'm strange like that ... :facepalm:

 

[seahorse5]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I'm not looking to be patronized. I understand my options if this really is the end of light weight carbed two strokes. I was just hoping to get some further info from anyone in the know. .

If you read the Canadian regulations whose link was in post #4, then you would be "in the know"

The ban on high polluting two strokes is no different than the same ban in California enacted back in 2001 against those motors - remember that the regulations and laws restrict the emissions of any type of motor, not necessarily just 2-strokes. The high tech "clean" 2-strokes are allowed.

 

[davidonmars]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

pretty soon in ontario were gonna have to e-test our boats haha

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Clearly, that person isn't here.

Let's see. You're from Canada, you heard a rumor that affects Canadian dealers (if true), you came here for clarification, and now your panties are in a wad because you received no joy. Really?

I'd have thought the obvious source of clarification would be the dealer who told you he could no longer sell bangers. But I'm strange like that ... :facepalm:

My panties aren't in a wad. I just don't think I deserve to be talked to like an idiot. My question is as valid as any other.

I have since spoke with two local dealers and they confirm that there will be no new small two stroke outboard motors as of 2012. Motors in the US and Canada will have to meet the same emissions standards set forth by the US EPA. This suggests that US dealers will no longer be selling small two stroke outboards as of 2012.

I read the regulations before I posted. They don't specifically mention banning two strokes. They basically say anything failing to meet EPA emissions will not be allowed. Honestly, this means nothing to me. I don't know which motors will meet EPA standards next year and I have no idea where to find the emission testing certificates for each outboard I may be interested in purchasing. Without them, how am I to know what will meet the standard next year? Its not rocket science, but its not straight forward either.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

pretty soon in ontario were gonna have to e-test our boats haha

I wouldn't be surpirised!

 

[pecheux]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

.

But I'm strange like that ... :facepalm:

If you say so ... !!!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

This should be called "The End of carbureted Two Stroke Outboards"

For your application, I would buy used 2 strokes- they will be available forever used.

I wouldn't count on being able to use them "forever" though.........

There's MANY lakes in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia for example, that will NOT allow you to even operate a carbureted 2 stroke on the lake. You cannot even get through the gate! (and if you get through the gate and they catch you running it, it's NOT pretty!!)

If anyone thinks that won't happen nationwide at some point in the future, you're going to be in for a surprise when the person at the entrance to the lake tells you that you cannot operate the engine on the back of your boat and they don't let you in until you change it to either 4 stroke or an "Approved" DFI 2 stroke.....

I got rid of my 77 6hp Evinrude while it was still worth something!!


Just saying...........


Cheers,


Rick

 

[pecheux]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

This should be called "The End of carbureted Two Stroke Outboards"



I wouldn't count on being able to use them "forever" though.........

There's MANY lakes in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia for example, that will NOT allow you to even operate a carbureted 2 stroke on the lake. You cannot even get through the gate! (and if you get through the gate and they catch you running it, it's NOT pretty!!)

If anyone thinks that won't happen nationwide at some point in the future, you're going to be in for a surprise when the person at the entrance to the lake tells you that you cannot operate the engine on the back of your boat and they don't let you in until you change it to either 4 stroke or an "Approved" DFI 2 stroke.....

I got rid of my 77 6hp Evinrude while it was still worth something!!


Just saying...........


Cheers,


Rick

You have a point, a few lakes that I know of in the Republik of Kebec LOL (Canada) have the same ban and it does create a problem for those who recently invested in the purchase of a late model 2 strokes OB. I dont know the answer to that. I have a small boat on a semi-private lake where lakefront owners are considering the ban of two strokes OB also. The usage of lean ratio synthetic oils have showned less oil spots on the water and has succeded in delaying the ban, but it's a temporary measure. As you wrote, new owners have to buy four strokes.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I don't know which motors will meet EPA standards next year and I have no idea where to find the emission testing certificates for each outboard I may be interested in purchasing. Without them, how am I to know what will meet the standard next year? .

Every outboard since 1999 has an EPA sticker on it that tells the emissions and gives the engine service specs. Also there are California designed stars that tell how low the emission output is on various motors. Read up on the EPA and CARB regulations - Google is handy. There are practically no 2-stroke carbureted engines available as of today due to present day regulations.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

The usage of lean ratio synthetic oils have showned less oil spots on the water and has succeded in delaying the ban, but it's a temporary measure. As you wrote, new owners have to buy four strokes.

Yes. OR electronically controlled direct fuel injected 2 strokes that meet CARB regulations.

 

[pecheux]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Yes. OR electronically controlled direct fuel injected 2 strokes that meet CARB regulations.

Agreed ... E-tech is here to stay ... and I suspect other may follow. Nevertheless and E-tech is way heavier than a standartd carbed or injection 2 strokes OB and that where it hurts. Whish there was a way for portable OB's to remain simple and light.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Agreed ... E-tech is here to stay ... and I suspect other may follow. Nevertheless and E-tech is way heavier than a standartd carbed or injection 2 strokes OB and that where it hurts. Whish there was a way for portable OB's to remain simple and light.

Well, the little engines aren't really a problem.

My little 9.8hp (4-stroke cycle) Tohatsu only weighs 81 lbs. now I know that's probably a little more than the comparable 10hp 2 stroke but we're not talking about a LOT. I think a Mercury 9.9 2-stroke weighs 77lbs.....

A 15hp (4-stroke) Tohatsu is around 115lbs.

I don't know if I would want a 15hp ETEC. Aside from being pretty expensive, it weighs around 170lbs...... Not something most of us are going to pull out of the trunk and carry down the hill to the beach!!!

http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Engines/ETEC_HO/ETEC_15_HO

But I can easily carry an 80lb engine around....

If I wanted anything bigger than 10hp, it would probably would stay on the boat!

 

[pecheux]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Well, the little engines aren't really a problem.

My little 9.8hp (4-stroke cycle) Tohatsu only weighs 81 lbs. now I know that's probably a little more than the comparable 10hp 2 stroke but we're not talking about a LOT. I think a Mercury 9.9 2-stroke weighs 77lbs.....

A 15hp (4-stroke) Tohatsu is around 115lbs.

I don't know if I would want a 15hp ETEC. Aside from being pretty expensive, it weighs around 170lbs...... Not something most of us are going to pull out of the trunk and carry down the hill to the beach!!!

http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Engines/ETEC_HO/ETEC_15_HO

But I can easily carry an 80lb engine around....

If I wanted anything bigger than 10hp, it would probably would stay on the boat!

Obviously if a 15 hp E tech weights 170 I would not want one either. I am surprised your 9.9 is only 81 pounds, this is exactly as my ol 9.9 Johnson 2 strokes. With bigger motors that are permently attached to the boat then I presume it's another ball game. Cheers.

 

[pootnic]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Wow 170lbs for a 15hp.
Must have something to do with it being a HO because a 30hp etec can weigh as light as 146lbs.
Mercury's 9.9hp 4 strokes are in the 85 lbs range,still wouldn't want to carry them to far but it's doable.
The 6 hp can be as light as 55lbs.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Obviously if a 15 hp E tech weights 170 I would not want one either.

Wow 170lbs for a 15hp.
Must have something to do with it being a HO because a 30hp etec can weigh as light as 146lbs.

The thing to remember is that the 15HO is not designed as a portable motor.

It has hydraulic trim and tilt, a high capacity 15 amp charging system, and electric start and gauge system along with heavy duty mounting brackets. It is for pemanently mounted kicker applications on larger boats such as multi-species boats, West Coast salmon rigs, and offshore fishing boats.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Yeah,

I thought that too....I couldn't find the specs for the "regular" ETEC 15.

I have to assume that it's a LOT lighter.

But most of the over 10hp engines weigh more than 100 lbs making them too heavy for use as a "portable" engine. (even 81lbs is too heavy for some people!!)

There's no denying that a small carb'd 2-stroke can (and does) weigh less than a small 4 stroke engine.

Carb'd 2-strokes are "DONE". Manufacturers will drop them like a hot potatoe. (just about all of them have already)


And as it's already going.......more and more states will ban them on lakes, rivers etc......

Sell'em while you can!! It won't be long before they're only worth scrap value.....

I wouldn't want to be the guy in "middle" America with the Evinrude 300hp V-8 that could only operate it in ocean!!! And the way it's going.......they'll ban them there too eventually!!!

Anyone want to guess when Calif will force CAT convertors on outboards? They're already going on stern drives and motorcycles!!





Rick

 

[v_fourmax]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Basically it is pretty straight forward is that the only new two strokes that currently meet the new carb standards are direct injected motors. As far as what will or will not be available next year well you can be sure that the manufacturers are phasing out production of any motors that do not meet the new accepted standards.

Now if the manufacturers do not already currently have a motor in their production line that meets those specs then you may need to wait until next years line up of available motors is released. Nobody can say what a manufacturer may have on the market until the manufacturer releases that information itself.

If the currently available direct injection outboards do not meet your needs due to weight or whatever reason then it would tend to be that waiting and hoping what you want is actually something a manufacturer has the ability, the technology and feels the demand will make it worthy of being produced will be a gamble on your part. Perhaps you would be better served to buy what you desire now while such a product is actually available for sale that fits what you desire.

I would tend to guess that if the older lighter carbed outboards are being outlawed as far as new sales is concerned that production of such units has long been terminated already and the only one that are available are those in the current pipeline now. And when those are gone they are gone period.

 

[beagleboy]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

My panties aren't in a wad. I just don't think I deserve to be talked to like an idiot. My question is as valid as any other.

I have since spoke with two local dealers and they confirm that there will be no new small two stroke outboard motors as of 2012. Motors in the US and Canada will have to meet the same emissions standards set forth by the US EPA. This suggests that US dealers will no longer be selling small two stroke outboards as of 2012.

I read the regulations before I posted. They don't specifically mention banning two strokes. They basically say anything failing to meet EPA emissions will not be allowed. Honestly, this means nothing to me. I don't know which motors will meet EPA standards next year and I have no idea where to find the emission testing certificates for each outboard I may be interested in purchasing. Without them, how am I to know what will meet the standard next year? Its not rocket science, but its not straight forward either.

Being from Canada it sounds like these two dealers are talking out of their ***'. EPA 2006 made certain standards which are now coming due 2011-12 etc. Engines, 2 or 4 stroke have to meet certain standards and for that matter lawn mowers also. My question is what do these dealers know what engines are going to be sold by yam, merc etc 2 years from now. If the information was had from a salesman he was probably blowing smoke up your *** and probably doesn't know what EPA is.

 

[beagleboy]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I wrote a word starting with an " a" followed by two s'. It showed ***

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

If the information was had from a salesman he was probably blowing smoke up your *** and probably doesn't know what EPA is.

There's the one thing that we all should all keep in mind........

The salesman is there to get you to buy the thing. They will tell you ANYTHING to close the deal.

The dealer DOES NOT want to be left holding the bag..... (or the unsalable 2 stroke outboard as it were!!)