The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

If in your policy, that I assume you have read and know by now, it doesn't list those types of records and being "required" to provide, I would advise this as well. Just a quick call to the Insurance Commisioner's office might help you decide if you really need to release that info.
My gut feeling is that you do not have to release them. As I said earlier, you only have to prove your claim, not your innocence. What they are asking for is criminal records. Well, if there is a criminal investigation ongoing, the police would need to show cause and get a warrant for that information. If that has happened, then I think the insurance carrier can make a case that they have a right to it also. But if no such investigation is taking place, and you policy doesn't dictate that you have to provide those records, then don't do it.

Well, I read the policy again and it's pretty vague what it says about this.

One of the paragraphs says:
"Promptly send us any and all legal papers relating to any claim or lawsuit"
and
"cooperate with us in any matter concerning a claim or lawsuit"
and
"authorize us to obtain medical or other records"
and
"provide any written proff of loss we may reasonably require"
and
"allow us to take recorded sworn statements and examinations as we may reasonably require"

That's all it says are my duties. There's nothing specifically about disclosing personal information...
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I just called the State Commissioners office and they said that I need to comply with whatever they ask...
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Well, I read the policy again and it's pretty vague what it says about this.

One of the paragraphs says:
"Promptly send us any and all legal papers relating to any claim or lawsuit"
and
"cooperate with us in any matter concerning a claim or lawsuit"
and
"authorize us to obtain medical or other records"
and
"provide any written proff of loss we may reasonably require"
and
"allow us to take recorded sworn statements and examinations as we may reasonably require"

That's all it says are my duties. There's nothing specifically about disclosing personal information...

Line 1 and two are in relation to you being sued for negligence, so they are not relevant.

I guess technically the "other records" could apply, but that is really in relation to medical bills

Written proof of loss is a form that they have that you fill out and describe and swear to the property that has been lost/damaged. It's not relavant.

The sworn statements are verbal. I guess you could argue that the "examinations" could be examinations of your financials.

But if the Insurance Commision says you have to provide it, I guess you do?
 

Maclin

Admiral
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Just seems to me if they want to investigate for fraud they can get all that legally anyway. Plus, why would they trust your documents, they should get all that themselves. This may be procedure, but what if a person had not filed for a year or two for some reason. I have no expertise in this area, I'm just sayin' it seems odd to me that they asked that of you.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Just so happens that I've seen better days, iow, I've had better bank statements in the past but it doesn't mean I'm a crook. So if their argument is that I planned this because I don't have thousands sitting in my checking account lately then they better take a look at 80% of the population. These days that won't prove a thing.

You can be hurting financially but it doesn't mean you're a criminal so I'm not sure what they can prove regardless of what I give them...
 

jkust

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,942
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Funny, I always believed Progressive took care of their claimants. I have been rear ended at stop lights by two inattentive drivers in the past both had Progressive. In the second instance the bumper damage to my car was light as I was up the chain of rearendees and I had not even called to make a claim but a progressive claims adjuster just showed up. He wrote me a check for the full cost of a replacement bumper and labor and even wrote me another check if I would sign Progressive's Liability away for any possible future injury claims. I actually just switched to Progressive for Auto, Boat and Snowmobile insurance partly because of the positive experience I had and partly because they were the cheapest on the street. I will keep my eyes open now if I ever make a property claim. Their Homeowners insurance had unreasonable provisions so I did not switch there.
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I just don't see how financial records and bank statements have any relavence to the stolen boat claim. A bill of sale, records of boat repairs, ownership papers, that would make sense, but not financial records. Are you sure it was the insurance company and not someone phishing you for info?
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I just don't see how financial records and bank statements have any relavence to the stolen boat claim...


Are you serious joe?????? Having your automobile "stolen" and destroyed when you are upsidedown on your payments/principle is one of the oldest "tricks" in the book. It's a very common insurance fraud, practiced in the U.S. everyday.
I will say that usually those types of fraud involve burning the vehicle to insure that little physical evidence could be recovered and to make sure that the vehicle isn't repairable.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I hear arguments on the internet are so vicious because the stakes are so small.....

personally, I notice the bigger I try to act the smaller I look.
Maybe I'm the only one.
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I guess you guilty until proven innocent in these cases. Never heard of such thing in Canada but then again I don't have much experience in stolen boats.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I will keep you guys posted as to how this story ends...

My only concern at this point is these guys making a case because I'm in a weaker financial situation comparing to years past. And although I pay all my bills on time and I've never had an insurance claim ever in my life, I suppose someone could make a case that I'm not doing as well as other times...so I must've planned this right ?

But...isn't that the situation the majority of Americans find themselves in these days ?

I can't begin to imagine these guys even suggesting that....
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I had a similar experience with a pickup truck. My insurance company was not Progressive.

I was hit by a drunk driver and ended up in the hospital with a brain injury. The investigating police officer said I was not at all at fault. On the night of the accident, my pickup was towed to a parking garage, not a repair facility. This was done because I was taken to a hospital via ambulance, so I was not available to make a decision about the destination of the vehicle.

About a week after I got out of the hospital, I went to see my truck. To me it looked like it was totaled. I called my insurance company to see how they wanted to proceed. They said to tow it to a repair facility of my own choosing. I actually tried to save them some money by suggesting that they have an adjuster look at the truck where it was, and they decided to do so.

About a week later, I received a call informing me that the truck was not totaled and to have it towed to my body shop. I did (it went to the original dealer, who had a body shop) and was soon told by that dealership that the vehicle was totaled. The service manager told me bluntly, that he was capable of fixing it, but it would cost more than the vehicle was worth, and wouldn't "be right."

From that point on, I began to keep a log of every contact that I had with anyone about the matter. I noted dates, times, names, what was discusssed, etc. I also sent all written correspondence from that time certified mail, with return receipt. What I found out during this process, is that the adjuster who went to the parking garage had written a report that stated the truck had about $7,000 in visible, external damage, but that he couldn't do a full inspection in that particular location. He then wrote on the report, which I eventually got a copy of, that he believed there to be significant damage beyond what he could see, and that he recommended that the pickup be totaled.

My insurance company became adamant that the truck was fixable for the $7,000 and sent me a check in that amount. On the front of the check was a statement that said that endorsement of the check would constitute agreement that the amount would be full and final payment. I crossed that out and wrote on the back of the check, right above where I would sign it, "endorsement and/or cashing of this check DOES NOT constitute agreement that this payment represents full and final payment of any claim with "XYZ" insurance company." I then deposited the money.

We argued about the whole thing for awhile, until I finally got tired of screwing around went to the main office for "XYZ" insurance company in my state, and refused to leave their lobby until I saw a senior manager. When I finally did get to talk to someone in authority, I told him that the meeting was his last chance to make good on the situation. I already had an attorney because I had been sued, even though I was not at fault, and the insurance carrier knew that. During the meeting, I told the manager that if I did not walk out of that office on that day, with a check in an amount that represented a fair settlement on the balance due to me, I would simply turn the matter over to my attorney. I also told them that I would instruct my attorney to go for the cash due, court costs, attorney's fees, damages, food for the cat, and any other damn thing he could get.

I walked out of the office with a check for the balance of the truck's value, additional costs for the second tow, and a couple of other small items.

BTW, the previous person, who said that the OP should expect to be dropped by Progressive, is dead right. That is exactly what "XYZ" insurance did to me. As soon as my annual contract expired, they dumped me.
 

MrBossman

Banned
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
42
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

My experience says that when dealing WITH ANY INSURANCE COMPANY. Never do it over the phone. Do everything by certified mail and if they want information or an ok from you to check anything about you make then request it and their reason for it IN WRITING..this lets them know up front that they will held accountable later if they try to ripp you.Also get the full names of every person you deal with. If things go south for you the documented letters will be very helpful to your attorney for his quick reveiw. Dont hire an attorney unless you have to. I have found that most of them dont want to make matters simple but want them to be complicated so they can charge more,be careful and next time I hope you catch and shoot the SOBs that took your boat.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Next Chapter -

I was about to ask for the address to send them the documents they requested and find out how much longer this will take because I'm still paying for a boat that I can't use.

Now they're saying that after they receive my papers it has to go to a "review board" because they consider this a big claim. They don't know how long it will take...

I'm beginning to feel like they're giving me the runaround and I can't get one staright answer from them...
 

lkbum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
445
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I just lost my last post, if it shows up, some of this will be repeated... Send them a written request for their upcoming policy/procedure. Ask for a written repsonse. If they respond in a timely fashion call your insurance commissioner and ask how to file a complaint. Very specific, writen request asking for a writen repsonse. You may want to ask your agent for some help. If you do not have one, I would seek out a knwolegable friend maybe?? Or contact a Nationwide agent, tell him you will be shopping for a new company. Ask him to review your existing policy and ask him what his experience is and how his company would handle the situation.
 

freddyray21

Commander
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
2,460
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

the time to consult an attorney was when they first asked for your bank records. The policy provisions pertain to recorded statements about an accident ect. The records they would seek under the policy are records they would need to subrigate a claim. No where in the United States can you be made to provide the records they are wanting. Even though I firmly believe you did not steal your own boat you still have 5th amendment privledges and are not required to cooperate in an investigation whose purpose it to prove fraud on your part. I am not sure about the law in Florida. In Missouri where I live the rule is if the cost of repairs are more than 75% of the value of the vehicle then it is a total by law.
 

MrBossman

Banned
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
42
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

When you offer personal records into any legal dispute you open the door to ANY AND ALL RECORDS AND THEIR MERIT TO BE USED IN COURT TO HURT YOUR CLAIM. In court if 5 or 6 years ago you did something stupid with money they will try and make you look stupid now even though 5 years ago has 100% nothing to do with your claim. Its to make you appear dishonest.A dirty lawyer trick used often.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I'm starting to get paranoid now...

I have all the documents they asked for in an envelope ready to be mailed tomorrow but I have major doubts about this. I don't want to hurt my claim but on the other hand I wonder if they're trying to set me up...

This thing about a review board sounds ridiculous to me...
 

NoKlu

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
786
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

If you are unsure of the actions you are taking, Consult a lawyer.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I'm starting to get paranoid now...

I would be, were talking about, what,,, 100K+-

I do agree the records they are requesting are totally irrelevant to the settlement of your claim.

If I were in your position I would seek some advice from someone with experience, even paying a attorney for a hour or 2 consultation is peanuts in the big picture.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top