The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I don't know how accurate or slanted it is, but there is a web site called rip report dot com that has a bunch of posting about Progressive.

I just went and read that...it is depressing to see and hear all the horror stories about this company. I feel for those poor people and I hope this doesn't happen to me. I already have enough problems...
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I guess the games have begun...

I was settling a claim once and the claims rep sent me low ball offers,,, the day before Thanksgiving and the day before Christmas. Wasn't that nice :rolleyes:

Yep,,, let the games begin...
 

Godfirst

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
228
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

My thoughts and regards for you
did you have any anti theft devices?? if so what types and ones

Take care
 

lester

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
92
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I had to file a claim with progressive when my motorcycle was stolen. There is some good advice already on here about how to handle it. First off, I would not try to **** off your first adjuster that is handling the claim...he might be able to help you get to the people who can really pull some strings. Wait and see what they offer. It will probably be low and unacceptable...which was the case in my experience. I understand, they are a business trying to make money. Regardless, as soon as you get that offer just let them know that it is unacceptable...they will probably try to "punk" you and make it "seem" like this is this "the offer"....remember nothing is final until you cash the check. Just let them know you appreciate it, but would like to speak with the shift manager, in my case, this got me a little higher offer, but not where I was happy. I asked to speak with the shift manager's boss who finally got me a reasonable offer and in much shorter time than any of the other offers. I had a check the following week. This business is a tiered system that the higher you work, the more "service" you will receive.. I know it is very hard, but try not to get pissed at anybody and just keep moving up the chain until you get something reasonable. The only problem with it, is just time and patience. Progressive came through for me in the end, but gave me a long battle for it. I'm not saying this is a good system by any means, but it is how it is. I now use locks on most of my stuff. Best of luck to you and try to keep your cool when dealing with them...I found that when I got mad at any agent, it seemed to make everything take longer. Hope you get what you are looking for...also I'm glad that the insurance companies 'test" claims out and ask you to record statements and take polygraph's ect....insurance fraud is huge and if it helps my premiums stay low, I will endorse it. Also my experience is based on a $6000 dollar motorcycle, but I would be willing to bet the system is still the same for more high end boats. Best of luck.

ps-What do you think you would have done if you walked outside while they were hooking your trailer up to their truck?
 

reelfishin

Captain
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I have to agree with not getting a lawyer, at least not at this point. I would only go that route if their final settlement offer is far less than the boats value.

I too have had Progressive Ins. problems but on a different note, I was rear ended by a driver with Progressive and they fought the claim with my insurance company. My insurance company paid my claim in full without hassle in 5 days. Progressive tried to imply that my truck was illegally lifted, (it was bone stock), that I had intentionally rammed the car that rear ended me, (I was moving forward at 35 MPH when hit), and their final ploy was that I didn't have my lights on, (the accident happened at 9:40 AM on a sunny Sat. morning with two local officers as witnesses too boot).

The only wait I had was to recover my $250 deductible, which took two years but I expected that.

As said several times above, document all communication, along with time of calls with dates and names.

Get estimates and know the value of your boat at the time of the theft. NADA is a valid source.

Either way, you need to see what they offer first, then decide your next course of action.

I have in the past also taken cash offer settlements, then turned around and bought the vehicle back myself and repaired it myself. Often what they deem as totaled is only due to a dollar value. Often getting paid for the value, then fixing the boat on your own for cash might just get you a late model boat for far less, but that would off course be up to you and whether or not you even still want the boat at any cost.

I've bought back two totaled trucks and fixed them for pennies with used parts and gotten many good years of service from them. A lot of that has to do with your ability to fix things yourself. I had a 2 year old pickup truck which got hit while parked, the insurance company totaled it out since they were required by law to fix it with oem parts. I bought the truck back for $1500 off of the settlement, then fixed it for an additional $600 in used body parts at a local junk yard. I even got lucky and found matching parts. The truck was valued at over $15,500 at that point and since I retained the title, it never became a salvage title. I drove that truck for 5 more years and it was paid for. All of the damage was minor, no safety issues at all and I worked for the dealer as well. It worked out great for me in the end, I got rid of a car payment, ended up with a late model truck for cheap and still got paid for the balance of the value on the truck by the insurance company.

I offered to buy back the truck before I ever realized that the truck was worth more than I owed by several thousand. The insurance company was more than willing to sell me the truck, it kept them from having to pay storage at the dealership and kept them from having to auction off or dispose of it. I broke even in the end cash wise, I had three vehicles so I didn't need a rental car, and it ended my paying monthly loan payments on that truck. (I've not had a car payment since, I now look for crash damaged vehicles which I can fix cheap).
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I don't know who's wrong or right but my guy sure acted that way...

He gave us grief over an extra day's storage and he was in "company mode" from the get go. I never for a minute felt any empathy from him and he acted like he was the one being harassed instead of me. Not a nice first impression let me tell ya...

He was all about the money from the moment we spoke with him...so you might want to revise your statement about what perks or kickbacks these guys get from making your life more miserable than it already is...

I wouldn't rush to judgement that these guys don't make a buck from saving their company some money...


I know how they act. And it is unfortunate that he got into "company mode" (I like that term, by the way, very good description!) right away. I know it's too late now, but at that point the tact to take is to just ask politely what some other options would have been. Not to "demand" that it go across the state. But that's all water under the hull at this point.
But again, I caution you in thinking that any claims person gets money directly from saving money on claims payments. They do not. It's only serving your irrational thinking that he/she is doing this on purpose to you. They are not. They are following their company directed procedures. And sometimes they are handcuffed by them
As far as them requesting your credit stuff, I am not sure if you have to supply that to them or not. In the policy there is language about cooperating with the investigation. But your real duty is to prove your loss, not how or why it happened.
But be aware, you did raise several red flags, and they do warrant investigation. I'll list them for you:
1) Boat stolen from your driveway
2) Stolen while you were home, yet you didn't know?
3) Boat not secured while parked?

I do realize that there can and probably are perfectly reasonable explanations for these things, but they do exist and warrant interest from an insurer.

And I know this will upset you, but in your very first post, you typed about how "perfect" your boat was. Low hours, all loaded up, yada yada yada. Well, I'll bet you a quarter you said all those things to the claim rep on the phone the first time. Well guess what? Anyone who starts talking about how great their car/boat/4 wheeler, etc is/was and what all options/equipment it had raises another red flag. It has been my experience that the people who start off with that stuff are usually the ones embellishing the condition/equipment. I am not joking. If you boat is/was so great, it will speak for itself when discovered.

I hope you have read your policy by now, and know what all your duties after the loss are.
 

SnappingTurtle

Lieutenant
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,251
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Everyone seems to think getting a attorney is a bad idea.

All I can say is my brothers charged him a total of $50. Informed him of how to act, what not to do or say, and wrote several letters warning Progressive to get off his back.

He also informed my brother of his rights, and what to watch out for. They were pushing the limits of what is legal, and they were warned by the attorney, that their actions were being watched and recorded.

It worked. They doubled the amount being offered for his truck, and settled the claim all within a week of receiving the letters.

My brother never lost his temper or his cool. He spoke calm and reacted as a businessman, who meant business.

I think it was money well spent. Why do the dirty work, when for little money there are professionals that will do it for you.

The little guy doesn't need one, but the corporates have an armies of them. :confused:
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

What we are saying is that in a 1st party coverage/payment dispute the agency that handles the disputes is the State in which the policy is written. Sure if this was a 3rd party dispute of indemnity, then yes an attorney could be a good idea. And seeking the advice of an attorney for a 1st party dispute isn't a bad idea, but most attorneys won't talk to you unless they are going to make some big money.
This is also an area where having a local insurance Agent helps too.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

But be aware, you did raise several red flags, and they do warrant investigation. I'll list them for you:
1) Boat stolen from your driveway
2) Stolen while you were home, yet you didn't know?
3) Boat not secured while parked?

I do realize that there can and probably are perfectly reasonable explanations for these things, but they do exist and warrant interest from an insurer.

I'm sure they'll find everything and anything to strenghten their position and make it a battle. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

As far as the red flags, there are many boats being stolen in FL these days just like mine, from slips, lifts and driveways. I was home in my office which is on the other side of the house but they didn't know it because my garage was close and there were no cars in the driveway. They assumed there was nobody home...

I spoke to the claims guy today nd tried to get some info as to where this is going now but he's being tight-lipped about it...I really don't know what they'll do next.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

ps-What do you think you would have done if you walked outside while they were hooking your trailer up to their truck?

I've often wondered that many times since then. I'm sure my gut reaction would've been to react and chase the bastards.

I was working in my office on the other side of the house and it's detached from the main house and far from the driveway. There could've been a texas chainsaw massacre and I wouldn't have heard it...

I was going to go out of my garage that morning to walk the dogs and I got caught up doing some work in my office. Who knows, maybe I wouldn't be here talking to you guys had I walked out when I was going to...
 

lkbum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
445
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

patience, as hard as it is right now, patience. Sometimes silence is deafening. Too many calls from you may indicate a weak position that they may try and take advantage of. I sincerely hope that Progressive makes a liar of me and that they settle quickly.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

An update on my saga with progressive insurance...

I got a call from somebody else that was involved in the case and they took a recorded questionaire again and asked me to provide cell phone records, tax returns for 2007 and 6 months' worth of bank statements.

The guy said it was standard procedure and I shouldn't feel bad and that it's normal when it's involving a big payoff...

So now I will try to co-operate and wait patiently...hopefully I won't get screwed...
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

What does tax returns and bank statements have to do with an insurance pay off on a boat. Sounds fishy to me. Is this normal in the USA?
 

lkbum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
445
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I wonder if that Bogboneli poster wet his pants again. I can understand Progressives actions, I'm sure most of the posters following this thread are hoping for a fair and non-stressful outcome.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

The request for bank account statments is to see if there is reason to suspect fraud because of suspicous account activity.

I think I would not give that info out unless you have agreed to it by accepting the policy. If there is nothing about financial disclosure to get claim payoff, I would not give it to them. Or maybe request that they put their reasons for needing it in writing so that it can be reviewed by an attorney.
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Just so you guys know, I think they might be leaning towards "total loss" since the estimate that another agent took when he went to the dealer was higher than what they expected.

They thought it was fixable first but then they estimated damages at 70k. With this number and according to their formula which states that if the repair cost plus salvage value of the boat exceeds current value it would be declared a total loss.

I hope that's the case. At this point and since I don't know what they're really going to do I'm going to proceed with what they ask of me. I just wish they would tell me once and for all which way this is going to go...
 

bigfish17

Seaman
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
62
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

The request for bank account statments is to see if there is reason to suspect fraud because of suspicous account activity.

I think I would not give that info out unless you have agreed to it by accepting the policy. If there is nothing about financial disclosure to get claim payoff, I would not give it to them. Or maybe request that they put their reasons for needing it in writing so that it can be reviewed by an attorney.

I think I better check my policy again but I don't want to be evasive and **** them off. I don't want to react prematurely if maybe that's the way they do things...
 

lkbum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
445
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I'm not sure, but since you have an agreed value policy, this is the value they make descisions on. I think this is what they will owe you. You pay more for an agreed value policy and it is offered so that there will be no issues in determining cost if there is a total loss. Regarding the release of information, I did so in my case because I had nothing to hide. Sounds like you are in the Boat, no pun intended. I bet you wish you were in your boat.
 

reelfishin

Captain
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

It sounds to me like they are trying to see if there's any sign of financial hardship in order to maybe try to claim you had it stolen in order to collect. If there's nothing in that area for them to go on, they will most likely have to pay off on the policy. I do agree that they have no right to any such info. The same goes for cell phone records. I would consider that an invasion of privacy.
They are looking for any new contacts or any link to the theft.

The bottom line is that you didn't steal your boat, you didn't strip it and abandon it somewhere. It was taken from you place of residence.
You did pay for a policy with an agreed value.
I don't blame any company from being cautious when paying out $90K or so, but it sounds to me like their actions are bordering on not only an invasion of privacy but they seem to be treating you as the criminal.
I'd be tempted to call someone at your states Insurance Commission and inquire about the release of any such information. It may even be illegal for them to require it without just cause or by legal means.

I would be cautious just in case, anything you do or say now may create a bigger hassle down the road if they decide not to pay. It's up to you to know your rights, so do your homework before saying or doing anything. It may help in the end.
 

TilliamWe

Banned
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
6,579
Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I'd be tempted to call someone at your states Insurance Commission and inquire about the release of any such information. It may even be illegal for them to require it without just cause or by legal means.

If in your policy, that I assume you have read and know by now, it doesn't list those types of records and being "required" to provide, I would advise this as well. Just a quick call to the Insurance Commisioner's office might help you decide if you really need to release that info.
My gut feeling is that you do not have to release them. As I said earlier, you only have to prove your claim, not your innocence. What they are asking for is criminal records. Well, if there is a criminal investigation ongoing, the police would need to show cause and get a warrant for that information. If that has happened, then I think the insurance carrier can make a case that they have a right to it also. But if no such investigation is taking place, and you policy doesn't dictate that you have to provide those records, then don't do it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top