The United States Of... me?

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
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Nov 19, 2007
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I was floored when I read that the house of representatives passed a bill to authorise the suing of members of OPEC and investigate and prosecute gasoline price gouging within the country. I was shocked partially just because they did it, and partially because they did it by such a large margin that even though the president promised a veto, his veto won't count. :D

They also passed a resolution to temporarily suspend oil shipments to the strategic reserve. :)

I'm also starting to wonder... because these are some things I have advocated right here in the forums before... maybe they are here, listening to me... :p

Now if they raise CAFE standards by a few mpg's over the next 5 years... then I think we'll really get somewhere in the fuel price battle. 1mpg per year would be good and easily achievable by the auto manufacturers.

SgtMaj
 

kenmyfam

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Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: The United States Of... me?

I was floored when I read that the house of representatives passed a bill to authorise the suing of members of OPEC and investigate and prosecute gasoline price gouging within the country. I was shocked partially just because they did it, and partially because they did it by such a large margin that even though the president promised a veto, his veto won't count. :D

They also passed a resolution to temporarily suspend oil shipments to the strategic reserve. :)

I'm also starting to wonder... because these are some things I have advocated right here in the forums before... maybe they are here, listening to me... :p

Now if they raise CAFE standards by a few mpg's over the next 5 years... then I think we'll really get somewhere in the fuel price battle. 1mpg per year would be good and easily achievable by the auto manufacturers.

SgtMaj

Wow, that is good news. If only they would do something like that in Canada as well !!!! but no, the higher the gas price the more taxes our government get !!! so they are in a win win situation.
 

PW2

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Re: The United States Of... me?

T Boone Pickens was on CNBC yesterday saying the world can produce 85 million barrels a day of crude. No more. Current worldwide demand is 87 million barrels a day. He predicted oil to be $150 a barrel by the end of the year, lacking a global recession.

Oil producing countries often subsidise their own internal energy uses from the profits on oil exports, so they are not likely to reduce their consumption.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
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Re: The United States Of... me?

Wow you mentioned the CAFE standards....

Just my opinion but they are skewed. You know that HHR that chevrolet sells? Did you know it is NOT a car! Yup Chevy put it initially in the truck catagory and now it's a SUV. This is to bring the class averages up.

The manufacturers need to stop messing around and the CAFE needs to be tougher.... I agree.

It is amazing that the old VW only had 36 hp and got along fine.... I look at the old HP vs the new and just shake my head.

My car (Toyota Yaris) only has a 1.5L @106 HP and I could probably get along fine with a 1 Liter and less HP.

So do we take up the challege and sue people? This is a joke..... lawsuits take money and our money will absolutely run out before OPEC money.

I was more floored that the house would waste their time on something so dumb.

We need to just stop now and do a national fuel price at a fixed number.
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
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Re: The United States Of... me?

Wow you mentioned the CAFE standards....

Just my opinion but they are skewed. You know that HHR that chevrolet sells? Did you know it is NOT a car! Yup Chevy put it initially in the truck catagory and now it's a SUV. This is to bring the class averages up.

The manufacturers need to stop messing around and the CAFE needs to be tougher.... I agree.

It is amazing that the old VW only had 36 hp and got along fine.... I look at the old HP vs the new and just shake my head.

My car (Toyota Yaris) only has a 1.5L @106 HP and I could probably get along fine with a 1 Liter and less HP.

So do we take up the challege and sue people? This is a joke..... lawsuits take money and our money will absolutely run out before OPEC money.

I was more floored that the house would waste their time on something so dumb.

We need to just stop now and do a national fuel price at a fixed number.

As far as the suing opec thing goes, that just sends a message... although it's a pretty weak message given the situation... the message should be, up production to 100% capacity or we'll send the black bag guys after ya...

Anyway, the bigger thing is the investigations into price gouging by the oil companies... That's the bigger thing... the thing that needed to be done for a long time.
 

JustJason

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Aug 27, 2007
Messages
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Re: The United States Of... me?

I know this sounds insensitive but.......... 50,000+ people just died in china..... to me that's 50'000 less potential fuel users..... yet oil still goes up 4 bucks a barrell overnight.
Anyone else here remember a bushel of wheat for a barrel of oil?
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

Inflation_Adj_Oil_Prices_Chart.jpg



Wall Street's crude ways

Commentary: How traders and hedge funds fuel runaway energy costs
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: The United States Of... me?

I was floored when I read that the house of representatives passed a bill to authorise the suing of members of OPEC and investigate and prosecute gasoline price gouging within the country. I was shocked partially just because they did it, and partially because they did it by such a large margin that even though the president promised a veto, his veto won't count. :D

They also passed a resolution to temporarily suspend oil shipments to the strategic reserve. :)

I'm also starting to wonder... because these are some things I have advocated right here in the forums before... maybe they are here, listening to me... :p

Now if they raise CAFE standards by a few mpg's over the next 5 years... then I think we'll really get somewhere in the fuel price battle. 1mpg per year would be good and easily achievable by the auto manufacturers.

SgtMaj

Hey SgtMaj, don't you think it would be better and simpler if Congress were to allow us to develop our own resources instead of whining that 'the Saudi's need to pump more' or that the worlds speculators are gouging us, huh?

Here is a quote from the CEO of Shell Oil that is directed to the Congressional witch hunt.

HOFMEISTER: In the United States, access to our own oil and gas resources has been limited for the last 30 years, prohibiting companies such as Shell from exploring and developing resources for the benefit of the American people. It is not a free market. According to the Department of the Interior, 62% of all on-shore federal lands are off limits to oil and gas developments, with restrictions applying to 92% of all federal lands. The Argonne National Laboratory did a report in 2004 that identified 40 specific federal policy areas that halt, limit, delay, or restrict natural gas projects. The problem of access can be solved in this country by the same government that has prohibited it. Congress could have chose to lift some or all of the current restrictions on exploration and production of oil and gas. Congress could provide national policy to reverse the persistent decline of domestically secure natural resource development.
 

treedancer

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Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
2,216
Re: The United States Of... me?

I know this sounds insensitive but.......... 50,000+ people just died in china..... to me that's 50'000 less potential fuel users..... yet oil still goes up 4 bucks a barrell overnight.
Anyone else here remember a bushel of wheat for a barrel of oil?

With a population of 1,321,851,888 people, 50,000 in one day is hardly a hiccup.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/wall-street-blame-runaway-energy/story.aspx?guid=%7B789899AB-FD58-4110-9C54-7A42B8D50907%7D&dist=MostReadHome


http://www.star-telegram.com/104/story/651928.html
"There’s a few hedge fund managers out there who are masters at
knowing how to exploit the peak [oil] theories and hot buttons of
supply and demand and by making bold predictions of shocking price
advancements to come, they only add more fuel to the bullish fire in a
sort of self fulfilling prophecy." — National Gas Week, Sept. 5, 2005
as reprinted in the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on
Investigations’ report, "The Role of Market Speculation in Rising Oil
and Gas Prices," June 27, 2006

Enron Loophole: Congress Approves Measure to Close "Enron Loophole"

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/1569538/


Now some people in high places are preventing oil from being drilled in Anwar and in the mean while in 2001 the Enron loophole was created and it should be clear how gas spiked from that time on
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

T Boone Pickens was on CNBC yesterday saying the world can produce 85 million barrels a day of crude. No more. Current worldwide demand is 87 million barrels a day. He predicted oil to be $150 a barrel by the end of the year, lacking a global recession.

Oil producing countries often subsidise their own internal energy uses from the profits on oil exports, so they are not likely to reduce their consumption.


Umm Tree did he take into account the Anwar formation....the Bakken formation and the oil off Florida....:D:D:D:D:D:D god you guys oil running out for the luv of god..
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

Hey SgtMaj, don't you think it would be better and simpler if Congress were to allow us to develop our own resources instead of whining that 'the Saudi's need to pump more' or that the worlds speculators are gouging us, huh?

Here is a quote from the CEO of Shell Oil that is directed to the Congressional witch hunt.

HOFMEISTER: In the United States, access to our own oil and gas resources has been limited for the last 30 years, prohibiting companies such as Shell from exploring and developing resources for the benefit of the American people. It is not a free market. According to the Department of the Interior, 62% of all on-shore federal lands are off limits to oil and gas developments, with restrictions applying to 92% of all federal lands. The Argonne National Laboratory did a report in 2004 that identified 40 specific federal policy areas that halt, limit, delay, or restrict natural gas projects. The problem of access can be solved in this country by the same government that has prohibited it. Congress could have chose to lift some or all of the current restrictions on exploration and production of oil and gas. Congress could provide national policy to reverse the persistent decline of domestically secure natural resource development.

Here's a litte history of just who's holding up development

http://www.anwr.org/Background/Political-History-of-the-Arctic-Refuge.php


Political History of the Arctic Refuge The Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) , finalized in December of 1980, designated the 1.5 million acre Coastal Plain within ANWR a study area, to be evaluated for its oil and gas development potential. The resource evaluation, conducted by the Department of Interior, was released in 1987 and recommended that Congress open the Coastal Plain for oil and gas exploration and development.
Since then, Alaska's Congressional delegation, our Governors and State Legislature's have been working toward that end. In 1995, the U.S. House and Senate approved Coastal Plain Development as part of a balanced budget act, but the entire measure was vetoed by President Clinton. ANWR - IMPORTANT DATES
1988 House Merchant Marine & Fisheries Committee� approves an open ANWR Bill
Early 1989 House Merchant Marine & Fisheries Committee again approves an ANWR Bill
1991 Congress debates National Energy Policy Act, Title 9 of which allowed for development of the Coastal Plain.
Nov. 1991 Senate Roll-call vote on Sen. Wellstone amendment to cut off debate on ANWR, 50 to 44. (60 votes needed to defeat filibuster)
1995 ANWR resurrected as part of the Balanced Budget Bill.
May 24, 1995 Senator Roth amendment to table ANWR from the Budget Resolution defeated 56 to 44 votes
Sept., 1995 President Clinton tried to create a National Monument of ANWR under the Antiquities Act- this was prevented
Sept. 19, 1995 Cong. Vento motion to strike ANWR form the Budget reconciliation bill in the House Resources Committee, defeated 27 to 14
Oct. , 1995 House vote on Budget Reconciliation plan including ANWR passed 227-203 votes.
Oct. 25, 1995 Sen. Bumpers asset sale amendment (which would drop ANWR from the Reconciliation bill), defeated
Oct. 26, 1995 Sen. Baucus anti-ANWR amendment defeated 51 to 48 votes.
Dec. 6, 1995 President Clinton vetoed the Balanced Budget Act which it included a provision to open ANWR.
May 24, 1996 Sen. Bumpers again tried an asset sale amendment on the floor of the Senate as a way of killing ANWR. The first amendment was modified and defeated 98 to 0, but a second attempt aimed directly at ANWT was defeated 52 to 46
June 13, 2001 A motion to limit the funds for activities related to oil and gas exploration in ANWR, brought up by Rep. Obey was rejected in the House Committee on Appropriations by a vote of 38 to 21
July 17, 2001 House Committee on Resources votes 30 to 19 against an Amendment to strike ANWR provision from Energy Security Act.
July 17, 2001 House Committee on Resources passes Energy Security Act with a vote of 26 to 17.
Aug. 1, 2001 Rep. Markey's amendment to strike ANWR from HR 4 is defeated by a vote of 223 to 206
Aug. 2, 2001 HR-4 is passed through the house with a vote 240 to 189
Sept. 11, 2001 America is attacked by terrorists, the worst terrorist attack in history of the United States.
April 2, 2003 House Committee on Resources votes 27-17 against an Amendment to strike the ANWR provision from the Energy Bill.
April 10, 2003 Rep. Markey�s amendment to strike ANWR from HR 6 is defeated by a vote of 228 to 197
April 11, 2003 HR 6 is passed through the house with a vote of 247 to 175
March 15, 2005 United States Senate Sen. Maria Cantwell's (D-WA) amendment to strike the ANWR provision [Section 201(a)(4)] from the Budget Resolution is defeated 51-49
April 13, 2005 House Committee on Resources votes 30 to 13 against an Amendment to strike the ANWR provision from HR 6
April 21, 2005 Rep. Markey�s amendment to strike ANWR from HR 6 on the house floor is defeated by a vote of 231 to 200
04/05


Now here's a nice little tidbit ..for our enviromentally enlightened crew..


http://www.anwr.org/Background/Drilling-in-Refuges.php


The National Audubon Society has earned over $25 million by allowing industry to pump oil and gas from 37 wells in the midst of its sensitive Rainey Wildlife Sanctuary, which serves as winter habitat for snow geese that migrate every year from Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

:rolleyes:................:confused:.................;)


The Audubon society has the power to lease our national wildlfe refuge....Something's amiss here
 

mainexile

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
223
Re: The United States Of... me?

What would happen if we waited until after the closing bell and the mass departure at the Commodities Exchange, then sealed the building for a week or so preventing the traders from artificially inflating oil prices any more than they already have?:mad:
 

Vlad D Impeller

Commander
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
2,644
Re: The United States Of... me?

How about the feds helping to reduce the glut of dollars on the world market.
It seems to me that oil is not priced in dollars, but the dollar is priced in oil.
When and how did this happen ?
 

BamaAlum97

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
173
Re: The United States Of... me?

How about the feds helping to reduce the glut of dollars on the world market.
It seems to me that oil is not priced in dollars, but the dollar is priced in oil.
When and how did this happen ?

That's exactly right...I've said on here before and I will say it again, it is not the supply/demand of oil that is causing the sudden spike in prices. It is the excess supply of the American dollar. Low interest rates plus excessive borrowing has flooded the market with American dollars. The demand for those dollars has remained relatively constant. Therefore the vaule of the American dollar has fallen. Raise interest rates...save your money/pay down your debts and watch the value of the dollar rise. You can then purchase more oil for every dollar spent (= lower oil prices).

On a side note...there was a very similair thread to this one not too long ago...let's be careful and not get this one shut down for being too political...

Gas is currently $3.69 here in Tulsa. I know many places have it worse than we do here.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
1,790
Re: The United States Of... me?

Problem as I see it is if we do start drilling for oil here just who is it that will be in control of it? Surely we cant trust the ones in control of it now can we? The american taxpayers need to be the ones saying who makes this and who makes that before we sell out our natural resorces to any more big oil men...This is part of the reason for our "delima" Its a ploy to give future control to the crooks who may soon lose their "friends in office"
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

How about the feds helping to reduce the glut of dollars on the world market.
It seems to me that oil is not priced in dollars, but the dollar is priced in oil.
When and how did this happen ?
At first glance that could be a very valid argument...but let me give you a clue.....if the US falls into much more of a recession the rest of the world will fall into the dark age's....

The currency valuation is little more than a guise probably orchestrated by no other than Goldman Sachs... Again just a opinon and your milage may vary

And volumes of insight by other's in the market

All signs point to NO ACTUAL SHORTAGE in oil. It is a pure bubble.
Further confirming this:

Quote: "Chakib Khelil, president of Opec, made up of 13 nations that
produce 40 per cent of the world’s crude oil, today denied there were
supply shortages."
May 19, 2008
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natur...

OPEC: Oil market well supplied
Wed, 21 May 2008 10:27:21
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=56664?ionid=3510213

No Need to Raise Oil Output: Kingdom
P.K. Abdul Ghafour, Arab News
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1?ion=0&article=110055&d=20&m=5&y=2...
JEDDAH, 20 May 2008
Quote: "Saudi Arabia announced yesterday that current oil production
was enough to meet market requirements and that producing countries
could increase capacity if there were 'actual additional' energy
needs."

Also, please see the shocking and extremely important facts presented
in this article:

In My Opinion: One law is causing prices to go through the roof
By Ed Wallace
Mon, May. 19, 2008
http://www.star-telegram.com/104/story/651928.html

This oil bubble is deliberate and driven by deceit and manipulation,
made possible by the Enron Loophole (the same loophole, created in
2000, that allowed Enron to jack energy prices sky high!)

If the news agencies won't report on this straight-on, they are
horrifically complicit in this. If Bush won't sign the bill that both
houses of Congress have recently passed, that would abolish the
scandalous Enron Loophole, then that would be a scandal of earth-
shaking proportions, as well.

The alleged oil shortage is the Big Lie behind oil prices, and the
Enron Loophole is the counterpart.

This Big Lie is peddled every day. One example from today:

Oil for 2016 Delivery Passes $141 on Supply Concern
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ao7pUZ.pCTaM&refe...
The news agencies almost never mention the Enron Loophole, either. In
my opinion, it is criminal. It is, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
extremely dishonest and harmful. Fund managers deliberately pumping
oil by touting the Big Lie through the media is DEFINITELY criminal.

Just posting enough info so one can make a somewhat informed decision.....this whole thing goes beyond party's....
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: The United States Of... me?

Problem as I see it is if we do start drilling for oil here just who is it that will be in control of it? Surely we cant trust the ones in control of it now can we? The american taxpayers need to be the ones saying who makes this and who makes that before we sell out our natural resorces to any more big oil men...This is part of the reason for our "delima" Its a ploy to give future control to the crooks who may soon lose their "friends in office"


Actually it is quite oppiste of what you might think.. If America drill it's own oil we have open disclousre laws that will prevent big money big oil or big press from hiding the fact's.....That is the reason for no oil being drilled in this country for 30 years we all will know the cost of oil and the amounts... When Prudoe bay was opened the oil market fell flat on it's face...It's history think not just google the time frames..


Opps just a opinion your milage may vary....:D:D:D:D
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,997
Re: The United States Of... me?

Oh I'm all for drilling for oil in Anwr, or wherever else they think they can get it from. Our current problems with gas/oil won't be fixed by any one single solution. It's a multi-fauceted problem and it will require multiple "solutions".

PS - I disagree that the rest of the world will fall into the dark ages... the middle east, china, and even europe will probably still be just fine... it's us that will be in the dark ages. Oh well, in all honesty, we did outlast the average life expectancy for democracies. It was a good run, while it lasted.
 

WizeOne

Commander
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,097
Re: The United States Of... me?

......it's us that will be in the dark ages. Oh well, in all honesty, we did outlast the average life expectancy for democracies. It was a good run, while it lasted.

This is the only likely reason that we will see the demise of the Great American Experience.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
Alexis de Tocqueville


...and as you all know that condition straight away leads to the S word, which I will not mention due to it's controversial nature.
 
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