Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Skinnywater

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Exactly! Yes there are issues with Guest Workers period, but this is a lot better than what we have today which is Nada!!.....
There is a timing issue in the bill that does hamper the previously illegal business, no? Doesn't a "legal" business have a window of opportunity to provide a service before the illegal one can regroup? I am not sure on this, because unlike you I have not read the bill.....

We have "Nada" enforcement of what is law now. Not that current law is "Nada".

The timing issue is the electronic verification not that current illegal businesses get anything other then amnesty.

BTW, the reason that I am withholding judgement on this bill is I don't know its ins and outs well enough......
OldMercsRule said:
I have not read the bill nor do I intend to until it looks close to passage.

The bill was close to being up for a vote approx. 2 weeks ago.
The political proponents are aggressively charging ahead, it's current and relevant now.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s1348pcs.txt.pdf
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

FWIW, an example of a good thing in this bill: Today employers are subject to a $3000 fine for each illegal employee, under the bill that goes up to $75,000! That right there will make a huge dent in the problem . . .

Still learning.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

FWIW, an example of a good thing in this bill: Today employers are subject to a $3000 fine for each illegal employee, under the bill that goes up to $75,000! That right there will make a huge dent in the problem . . .

Still learning.

If they don't enforce the laws like they do now, it could be a million dollars and it won't do a thing.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

FWIW, an example of a good thing in this bill: Today employers are subject to a $3000 fine for each illegal employee, under the bill that goes up to $75,000! That right there will make a huge dent in the problem . . . Still learning.
Oh the horror!, I agree with QC......
75K is enough to put alot of people out of biz......
They will take note.....
& I'm sure the Gubmint will be more than happy to put it's greedy paw out, rightfully so.....;)
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Quote OldMercsRule


My wish list: #1 A well manned both high and low tech fence: ASAP, #2 I National ID card set up and administered by the Federal government required for any job, or to get any licence used in society, or bank account, with a heavy penalty if ya don't follow the proceedure. #3 Some sort of encouragement to come forward for a temporary legal status, that entails paying a fine or fines, and getting in the back of the line to earn citizenship over a very very long time, as long as the illegal has a clean criminal record, immeadiate revocation of all status and deportation if any crime is commited greater then a speeding ticket. #4 Stop all anchor baby rules. #5 Voting rights only after completing the very long hard slog and going through the line. #6 Denial of all Federal Support to include military or disaster response EVERY SINGLE CENT, to those cities or local governments who offer sactuary to illegals. #7 Zero ability to influance foreign family members to come here.

Damn JR, were on the same side of the fence here ,at least partially. #2 national id card, don’t know what the controversy is on that, the Veterans Administration is in the process of being able to put in a number and come up with your medical record any where the have facilities. Shouldn’t be to big a leap too implement another system ,and not have it branded as big brother.

Hey Mr. Tree. The card would be easy to issue once documents of citizenship had been reviewed and proven, (similar to the present passport process). That would then make it easy to verify the status of all Americans for employment or voting, and not put all the enforcement on private business for the 50 years of EVERYONE letting this mess happen for various reasons.

As an owner of a tax paying business, that pays taxes everytime the terlet flushes: I LUV TO BE TOLD BY LIBERALS, (or wobbly Republicans: for that matter), TO CORRECT ALL THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY OR FACE FINES OR IMPRISONMENT just because many Americans are big victims and hate or envy the businesses that employ them or provide them products and a great living standard, while those grubby Liberals who get those tax dollars provide sanctuary for the very illegals that they want me to fix. VERY IRRITATING, and illogical.

The contraversy is the potential use and abuse of such a card by BIG BROTHER. I don't know about you, but I fear that Hillary Clinton may be our next President, (I bet you would not like that so much either: Mr. Tree). If she knew these cards existed for all citizens why not force ya to pay a special tax before getting the card, or collect child support or IRS obligations. I fear our government, as our Founding Fathers did: Mr Tree. Ms Clinton has an well known affinity for confidential FBI records on her political enemies, that she was never held accountable for, (even though it was a major crime and major breach of security). Democrats can commit crimes today in this Country without any negative cornsequences, in fact it improves their political standing from what I see. She and other Libs really do want corntroll of all of us Mr. Tree, (the Republicans are not trustworthy in any way shape or form: either). There would have to be IRON CLAD restrictions on the use of any card or 1984 would be here in six months: I fear. That's the corntraversy as I see it, but I have one functioning brain cell that really does fear the power the Liberals obviously want from all of us, (at the expense of our hard won freedom: BTW), and I don't plan to go to sleep n' let 'em have it without a fight. It does make ya wonder if ol' Ted Kennedy had this as his adgenda all along. This seems to be one of the only ways out of the mess both Republicans and Democrats have got us into by allowing an open border since the 1986 amnesty.


#7
dont know about this one though, might want to give this one a little more thought .

Immigrant anchor families are responsible for the majority of their relatives following them here Mr. Tree. Ted kennedy's anchor baby policy is one of the biggist problems allowing illegals to trample our borders. My $.02. JR
 

treedancer

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Quote OldMercsRule

<<If she knew these cards existed for all citizens why not force ya to pay a special tax before getting the card, or collect child support or IRS obligations. I fear our government, as our Founding Fathers did: Mr Tree. Ms Clinton has an well known affinity for confidential FBI records on her political enemies, that she was never held accountable for, (even though it was a major crime and major breach of security). Democrats can commit crimes today in this Country without any negative cornsequences, in fact it improves their political standing from what I see. She and other Libs really do want corntroll of all of us Mr. Tree, (the Republicans are not trustworthy in any way shape or form: either).

It does make ya wonder if ol' Ted Kennedy had this as his adgenda all along.>>


Comeon Jr, starting to get a bit clairvoyant, as well as paranoid, on me aren?t you? You are right on my feelings about Senator Clinton though, not to enthused on her Presidential aspirations.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Quote OldMercsRule

<<If she knew these cards existed for all citizens why not force ya to pay a special tax before getting the card, or collect child support or IRS obligations. I fear our government, as our Founding Fathers did: Mr Tree. Ms Clinton has an well known affinity for confidential FBI records on her political enemies, that she was never held accountable for, (even though it was a major crime and major breach of security). Democrats can commit crimes today in this Country without any negative cornsequences, in fact it improves their political standing from what I see. She and other Libs really do want corntroll of all of us Mr. Tree, (the Republicans are not trustworthy in any way shape or form: either).

It does make ya wonder if ol' Ted Kennedy had this as his adgenda all along.>>


Comeon Jr, starting to get a bit clairvoyant, as well as paranoid, on me aren’t you? You are right on my feelings about Senator Clinton though, not to enthused on her Presidential aspirations.

The fears are real: Mr. Tree. Maybe I'm all alone here. Hillary is just a recent scary example of a powerfull person in government who does abuse power and get rewarded with a great political career by her Democrat supporters. I actually fear John Edwards much more. Do you really want the government to have a free hand with a national ID card? Yer pullin' Murky's chain jus' like me Bro does. We would have to be very carefull and heavilly restrict all possibilities to abuse such a card. That is a real serious issue. Please think carefully, and I'm sure you will agree my friend. Respectfully JR
 

treedancer

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Here is my choice as of now, could change, way too early for much deep thought. I was leaning a little towards Edwards, but as of late a little of the new has worn off, if he should get the nomination would most likly vote for him over any Republican that has announced so for.

General Wesley Clark



bio_3.jpg



http://www.clark04.com/about/


Quote OMR

Do you really want the government to have a free hand with a national ID card?



Lets see now I have a Social Security Card, issued by the Government a Commercial Drivers License issued by the State, but can be accessed by any State, federal, or City bureaucrat in of the country. So unlike you I have resigned myself to the fact that nanny government is here now.

Oo I forgot to add I have a Satellite tracking system on my truck, they can see where I am at anytime they want to. Comon JR admit it, your are just using that crap for arguing points.
 

POINTER94

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

It's amazing. Somehow I am able to mow my own lawn. I had a roof put on my house and not one of them was illegal. I worked in fast food during my college years, had a lot of fun doing it. I am having some landscaping done around the house and none of them are illegal. Unless they came from Sweden.

I love it when people use the word "can't". We can't stop terrorists, we can't remove 12 million ILLEGAL aliens from our country. These are the same people who think we can convince the world to change their lifestyles to lower the temperature of the planet. Constitutional rights be damned. The fact is we don't WANT to do anything about it. Cowardise, particularly political cowardise rules the day. Liberals celebrate it as compromise. Conservatives call it compassionate. When it all boils down, its nothing but expediency for those in power. Nothing more. And it makes me physically ill.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Here is my choice as of now, could change, way too early for much deep thought. I was leaning a little towards Edwards, but as of late a little of the new has worn off, if he should get the nomination would most likly vote for him over any Republican that has announced so for.

General Wesley Clark


He is clearly an ackomplished person, very smart, and I could see where any Democrat could like him, (especially a Veteran like you), as he is clearly no John F Kerry. During interviews he comes off as a double talking pandering weasel to me, (but that is likely my Cornservative Right leaning bias), and he has to pander to Democrats. Richardson is the most impressive Dem to me, but both he and Gen. Clark want to surrender (for what I judge to be political points to their supporters), so that is my one issue litmus test that zero Democrats pass. They must put the Country ahead of their political ambitions, which no Democrat does. I understand politics, so I understand all the potential Dem Candidate problems. Ironically: Hillary has the most credibility of all the majors at this point, (which I believe is a shrewd political calculation on her part), as she seems to be the type to sell her soul to gain power, and is still leading the pack.

The problem in my eyes is the current bunch of Anti War/Bush defeat seeking Democrat supporters, (the most vocal ones with the large $), that none of the candidates can ignore if they want to be the Democrat standard bearer for 2008. That bunch remembers the glory days of their party in 1975, (at the lowest point in modern American history), where they gained the second highest concentration of power, (second only to FDR's Great Depression days, that produced the zenith of Democrat power). If ya know a lil' history, it is obviuos why the Democrats want a defeat or poor economy, (which they can get by raising taxes), so they can again gain their rightfull total power over all of us and move the Counrty to a European style Socialist direction that they have been doing since 1932.




bio_3.jpg



http://www.clark04.com/about/


Quote OMR

Do you really want the government to have a free hand with a national ID card?



Lets see now I have a Social Security Card, issued by the Government a Commercial Drivers License issued by the State, but can be accessed by any State, federal, or City bureaucrat in of the country. So unlike you I have resigned myself to the fact that nanny government is here now.

What makes you think I'm not resigned to the existance of an obvious growing and very robust Nanny State Government that is real hard to miss, unless you are asleep 24X7? I have a Merchant Marine "Z card", (that I got at age 16 when I worked as an "ordinary seaman" to pay me way through college), and was a stock broker and insurance agent for 22 years, and worked in Banking industry prior to that. I guess you think I've never been finger printed or had an FBI check a number of times by Big Brother? Securities, Banking and Insurance are the most regulated industries in the Country, (especially Securities).

We all need specialized licences, (or most of us do), to cornduct our lively hoods. If a national ID card was the one an only key to voting employment and access to all licesces, (including the ones listed above), that would be far more powerfull then any Social Security card or any single state issued driver's or any single professional license. I hope you see the substantial increase in the potential for some serious Orwellian 1984 stuff, (if not please ponder this matter). I'm not saying that could not happen now, I'm just saying that one card as a gateway to all other hurdles would be a big deal. What if Queen Hillary, or President Rudi for that matter decided to require firearm registration tied to this card? The potential for abuse does exist right now, a National ID card would make it much more powerful and tempting to power hungry government elites, expecially if it's: 'for the children'.

Guess I'm paranoid Mr. Tree, we can't turn the clock back with over 5% of our existing population illegal, (that looks to me to be intentional over the last 50 years on the part of both Democrats and Republicans), and partially underground in a post 9/11 world, something has to be done. (THOSE WORDS THAT SCARE ANY SELF RESPECTING CORNSERVATIVE). It likely means we all have to loose a little of our collective freedoms to deal with this very serious threat. The clear victory won by the terroists the morning of 9/11/2001. We just need to restrict, (in hardened concrete that is not "living and breathing"), the hard limits on use of any such card, that clearly erodes the gifts of freedom we all have from our Founding Fathers.


Oo I forgot to add I have a Satellite tracking system on my truck, they can see where I am at anytime they want to. Comon JR admit it, your are just using that crap for arguing points.

No Mr. Tree, this is not a debate or arguing point for me. The GPS tracking and video cameras that are nearly everywhere, are also part of the deal I see clearly. I guess ya think no one could monitor yours or my internet usage either, (just joking: [I know you know they can]). Big Brother is here and here to stay. If we are aware of it, and don't fall asleep; we can hopefully slow the loss of our freedoms. Respectfully, JR
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I love it when people use the word "can't". We can't stop terrorists, we can't remove 12 million ILLEGAL aliens from our country. These are the same people who think we can convince the world to change their lifestyles to lower the temperature of the planet.
That there is an interesting observation . . .

BTW, I struggle with the removal of 12M illegals as well. It's not that I believe we can't, we just won't. And considering that there are children who have begun to assimilate, were born here (yes, I know that doesn't really matter) and have no idea of what life is like in the slums of Mexico, I struggle with uprooting them . . . Since I would also struggle with separating them from their parents, well uh . . .

Oh also, that is the compassion part of my deal. Kids don't get abused. Sending children who have grown up in the US to Mexico is abuse. I don't care why it happened. That is wrong.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

That there is an interesting observation . . .

BTW, I struggle with the removal of 12M illegals as well. It's not that I believe we can't, we just won't. And considering that there are children who have begun to assimilate, were born here (yes, I know that doesn't really matter) and have no idea of what life is like in the slums of Mexico, I struggle with uprooting them . . . Since I would also struggle with separating them from their parents, well uh . . .

Oh also, that is the compassion part of my deal. Kids don't get abused. Sending children who have grown up in the US to Mexico is abuse. I don't care why it happened. That is wrong.
Spoken like a true bleeding heart liberal.......;)
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Children are not spawn!! :mad:
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Or pawns!
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Or pawns!
Then tell the illegal immigrants who use them as a foothold to stay here to relinquish their parental rights...........
If they truly wanted them to stay here they would do that.....
If not, get out!.......
& yes they are spawn!.......;)
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Then tell the illegal immigrants who use them as a foothold to stay here to relinquish their parental rights...........
If they truly wanted them to stay here they would do that.....
If not, get out!.......
& yes they are spawn!.......;)

My oh My, I hate to agree with me Bro here, but I do. Not necessarily his language, but his point. QC, Cornservatives actually do have all the emotions of the Liberals, we just learn to let logic n' critical thinkin' trump them. I too luv children, and am VERY sympathetic to them. It is hard for any parent not to be IMHO. That said: the entire 6 Billion inhabitants of this particular planet can potentially create children.

Over 1 Billion of them adhere to a faith at odds with the survival of free people like all of us here on iboats as it is practiced over the last 1500 years. Some of those 1 Billion plan to take us down, and they clearly use children to do it. Since 1979 how many Muslims have been born? Well over half of the 1 Billion now living. Many of those have been fed the poison to make them hate us for our freedoms, n' treatement of women. THEY HATE US BECAUSE WE ARE LIBERAL!! Even if we all imbraced Sharia law and prayed to Mecca five times per day history tells us there would still be lots of beheadin' as we may not be Muslim enough for the most extreme followers. It has been that way for 1500 years.

The most extreme parties in any movement like to hammer their own, (not that King Skinny and I share anything in common), but he sure does not like it when I start political threads, at least that is what he posted when he debated me. It is one of the parts of human nature.

Our enemies are very savvy and will work any opening in any door we leave adjar. The anchor baby loophole must end: ASAP. That does not mean that I am not compasionate or that I am mean spirited. I just want my great Country to survive as is. Respectfully, JR
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I think you're both nuts. These are Children!!! Happens to be where I draw the line. I see this as a logical position, not an emotional one ;)
 

QC

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Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

To further clarify this from my perspective. Children born in Mexico that live in poverty, know nothing else. That is very different than kids who have grown to say 8 years old here, have friends, have assimilated, go to our public schools, know our culture, lived our culture and know nothing of the poverty that they are going to be thrust into. That IMHO would be abusive.
 
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