Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I think you're both nuts. These are Children!!! Happens to be where I draw the line. I see this as a logical position, not an emotional one

How far does this logic go QC? Would you give your life or my life or the lives of your loved ones for the life of a poor missunderstood Arab baby who just wanted to grow up to be a good little suicide bomber? Respectfully JR ps. Was Lenin right, will we give them the rope to hang us?

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Big leap there Murk. Simple answer? NO!

My logic stops at willfully abusing children . . .

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

I think you're both nuts. These are Children!!! Happens to be where I draw the line. I see this as a logical position, not an emotional one

You can draw the line wherever you want....
So can I.......

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

To further clarify this from my perspective. Children born in Mexico that live in poverty, know nothing else. That is very different than kids who have grown to say 8 years old here, have friends, have assimilated, go to our public schools, know our culture, lived our culture and know nothing of the poverty that they are going to be thrust into. That IMHO would be abusive.

QC, the current law makes babbies born here citizens. That must stop, that does not turn back the clock to make the scenario you pose realistic. That said: it really must stop. Respectfully, JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Big leap there Murk. Simple answer? NO!

My logic stops at willfully abusing children . . .

No yer logic twists to allow a fatal flaw in our laws to corntinue. My leap is no more of a big leap then yours. The law must be simple and easy to understand and enforce. If you make any touchy feely exception the house of cards falls. Respectfully, JR

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You guys are either dense, stupid or you simply don't get it. This one gives me visions of trains heading to Auschwitz. Are you prepared to load children that have been in the US their entire lives onto trains? Oh, and let's imagine they are citizens which Murk has noted (so did I in one of my first posts today), you gonna load their parents on the train and keep them here? Get a flippin' clue.

Oh, oh, and if you guys are prepared to man the check out stations, do you think the American people will stand for this? Again, I see this as a logical depiction of the issue you guys are trying to say is a simple deal. Pack 'em all up and ship 'em out; citizens stay, and now they are up for adoption. One upside is that you just lowered the wait time for healthy adoptees . . .

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

My leap

Noooooo. Your leap was from deporting children who were raised here, to supporting a child trained as a terrorist. Which IMHO isn't even analogous, so hence the word leap . . .

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You guys are either dense, stupid or you simply don't get it. This one gives me visions of trains heading to Auschwitz. Are you prepared to load children that have been in the US their entire lives onto trains? Oh, and let's imagine they are citizens which Murk has noted (so did I in one of my first posts today), you gonna load their parents on the train and keep them here? Get a flippin' clue.

Oh, oh, and if you guys are prepared to man the check out stations, do you think the American people will stand for this? Again, I see this as a logical depiction of the issue you guys are trying to say is a simple deal. Pack 'em all up and ship 'em out; citizens stay, and now they are up for adoption. One upside is that you just lowered the wait time for healthy adoptees . . .

Hitler pulled it off quite well........
Man the check stations, pull the switch, whatever I can do to help.....
The loophole needs to end so the cycle can be broken....
IE, Enter illegally, get knocked up, get to stay for 'humanitarian' reasons.....
Now, who was it that was using the spawn as pawns?.....

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Never mind, hopeless crowd.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You guys are either dense, stupid or you simply don't get it. This one gives me visions of trains heading to Auschwitz. Are you prepared to load children that have been in the US their entire lives onto trains? Oh, and let's imagine they are citizens which Murk has noted (so did I in one of my first posts today), you gonna load their parents on the train and keep them here? Get a flippin' clue.

Oh, oh, and if you guys are prepared to man the check out stations, do you think the American people will stand for this? Again, I see this as a logical depiction of the issue you guys are trying to say is a simple deal. Pack 'em all up and ship 'em out; citizens stay, and now they are up for adoption. One upside is that you just lowered the wait time for healthy adoptees . . .

I don't disagree with your arguement.
However, the main arguement is action in enforcing current law. Both at the border and at illegal employers.
Some type of "goodwill" need to be demonstrated by our government that they are prepared to do what's best for the country and honour it's laws, current and future.

The "anchor child" aspect is a minor portion of this situation. This and other minor aspects can be better dealt with, even compromised on once current law is enforced. There is a lot of minor details that will take care of themselves or can be dealt evenly as dynamics play out.

We have absolutely no guarenty that the government wil honour this new law any better then current law. Since the shift from government is towards arrogance, deception and overstepping, I really need some type of goodwill.
The law and money is in place and has been for decades, the will and reponsibility rests entirely on the government.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

You guys are either dense, stupid or you simply don't get it. This one gives me visions of trains heading to Auschwitz. Are you prepared to load children that have been in the US their entire lives onto trains? Oh, and let's imagine they are citizens which Murk has noted (so did I in one of my first posts today), you gonna load their parents on the train and keep them here? Get a flippin' clue.

QC: you don't need to imagine it: IT IS A FACT.

Oh, oh, and if you guys are prepared to man the check out stations, do you think the American people will stand for this? Again, I see this as a logical depiction of the issue you guys are trying to say is a simple deal. Pack 'em all up and ship 'em out; citizens stay, and now they are up for adoption. One upside is that you just lowered the wait time for healthy adoptees . . .

Do you think making up an extreme tear jerk case will trump logic? NO!!! LOGIC IS LOGIC, That is why logical goal posts don't move and emotional ones always do. SHUT THE BORDERS and: eliminate the baby anchor feature: PERIOD. I will cry about it privately, but keep the emotions under control!! I made a proposal as to how to deal with those here now illegally that does not fit yer hypothetical hyped up emotional rant. Respectfully JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Noooooo. Your leap was from deporting children who were raised here,

That QC is a "straw man" argument. Please point to the post where I recomended deporting children who were raised here.

to supporting a child trained as a terrorist. Which IMHO isn't even analogous, so hence the word leap . . .

Hmmmmmm, If you read my previous posts in this thread you can surely tell that your hypothetical tear jerk scenario does not fit either reality or any current real world scenario that exists RIGHT NOW.
I guess ya wanna tell me that children are never trained as terrorists in today's world right now to kill people like you and me and our children, eh: QC? Respectfully, (and I mean it), JR

 

[QC]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Murk,

You are fully allowed to "win" this if you need to. All of my examples are real world. Anchor children do exist. What do you do with their parents? I do not see this as tear jerk at all, it is a real issue if you plan on deporting 12 Million people which is what the topic had evolved to when I responded to a post of Pointer's . . . I know that children born here are lawfully citizens (my posts do not make that clear), I also know that there are some children who grew up here, but were not born here. Another example that is not tear jerk, but reality. If you cannot see that their disposition is reality then I guess I underestimated your ability to think through scenarios clearly. Straw Man or otherwise your analogy is carp. I can bring up the concern of deporting lawful citizen's parents without having to give a rats arse about a child raised in a Terror camp. Is that a tragedy? Yes. Part of this discussion? No. Analogous? Maybe I am stupid, but no.

I am gonna make another logical observation. I don't think the American people will stand for train loads, or bus loads of People being shipped back to anywhere. I may be wrong, but that is what I believe. You can dispute that if you'd like, but since it is my opinion, and only an opinion, THAT would in fact be illogical . . . Have you noticed that I have not said that I do not want some deported? That would be yet another discussion, which we can also have if you'd like . . .

I will also reiterate why I brought this up. I, QC, think that sending non-citizen children that have been here for X amount of time is abusive. I also think that sending the parents back of citizen children would be abusive. I prefer that children are not abused period, because they do not have a role in this very complex issue. Yes, even those in terror camps, but the topic was US illegal immigration. Need I make this any clearer?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Umm QC it is my topic, i claim right's here.........This is a no squatter allowed thread..........

The indignation come's from a government represenative totally ignoring a landslide of american oppositon to this proposed bill, then making a public statement implying that such info network's need to be dealt with.

They are not king's and only King's or dictator's make such decision's. There is true merit to your impassioned plea, but for the sake of clarity plz start another thread, it would make for good disscusion. This is not by any mean's hostile toward's you, i find you to be a intelligent and compasionate person.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Murk,

You are fully allowed to "win" this if you need to.

I do like to win, but you and I rarely debate, and I am making valid points, (at least I hope I am).

All of my examples are real world.

No they are not, I never proposed, (see post #37;45;47;50 in this thread) deporting the parents, (unless they are criminals, then: deport 'em)

Anchor children do exist. What do you do with their parents? I do not see this as tear jerk at all, it is a real issue if you plan on deporting 12 Million people which is what the topic had evolved to when I responded to a post of Pointer's

Pointer is much farther right on this issue then I am. That maybe where we got caught up.

. . . I know that children born here are lawfully citizens (my posts do not make that clear), I also know that there are some children who grew up here, but were not born here. Another example that is not tear jerk, but reality.

Possible, then they would fall under the proposal I put forth, I do not speak for Pointer. He is one of the more informed and succinct posters on this board. It explains why we, (you and I) have talked past each other in the current debate.

If you cannot see that their disposition is reality then I guess I underestimated your ability to think through scenarios clearly.

I stated it above.

Straw Man or otherwise your analogy is carp.

No it is not as I was debating my proposal not Pointers'

I can bring up the concern of deporting lawful citizen's parents without having to give a rats arse about a child raised in a Terror camp. Is that a tragedy? Yes. Part of this discussion? No. Analogous? Maybe I am stupid, but no.

Did not follow that one QC, (one brain cell).

I am gonna make another logical observation. I don't think the American people will stand for train loads, or bus loads of People being shipped back to anywhere. I may be wrong, but that is what I believe.

I agree: please read my proposal.

You can dispute that if you'd like, but since it is my opinion, and only an opinion, THAT would in fact be illogical . . .

You are still debating Pointer not me.

Have you noticed that I have not said that I do not want some deported? That would be yet another discussion, which we can also have if you'd like . . .

No need, I am forming and or revising my opinions now as you are: apparently.

I will also reiterate why I brought this up. I, QC, think that sending non-citizen children that have been here for X amount of time is abusive.

I don't like touchy feely catch all terms, I like to stay unemotional if possible. My proposal does cover them. I am not Pointer, although I usually agree and do respect him, that goes for you too: QC.

I also think that sending the parents back of citizen children would be abusive.

Again, I prefer not to use 'loaded' terms, packed with emotion. That said, if the parents are criminals, ( a crime greater then a traffic ticket), and not counting immigration laws, the whole family has to go. The citizen kids could go up for adoption, and learn to obay the law from their new parents, or go back with the family, (the family's decision).

I prefer that children are not abused period, because they do not have a role in this very complex issue.

Ted Kennedy gave them a big roll: QC. I dissagree with you here.

Yes, even those in terror camps, but the topic was US illegal immigration. Need I make this any clearer?

It is crystal clear that you saw both Pointer and I when you were posting. I debate my posts: not others, unless someone chimes in, (as I may have done to you here). I still don't like emotion packed debates which is why Ted Kennedy created the crack in the door in the first place. Liberals are very skilled at doing that very thing. I am not calling you a Liberal: QC. Respectfully, (as you deserve) JR

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Look, I am not looking to displace children. But if we can send back say, 9 million and prevent a continuation of the current invasion, establish realistic guidelines for citizenship going foward, (I would not invite Teddy Oldsmobile to that particular meeting) I would count that as a victory. Someone help me, what advantages are there to being an actual law abiding citizen? FWIW citizens don't get deported. Even if they are part of a liberal program to invent a new dependant class of voters and they get to play santa claus.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Trent Lott Arrogance exposed or reality?

Quote Mayfoat: From another thread)......


the way our government operates is why we tend to follow instead of lead. Texans can build thousands of miles of fence in a month, but after 200+ years,,,,,we still don't have a fence on the border.
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