Reread my post rodbolt. I agree torture is wrong, says so in my post. I also did not say my morals were for sale. I said that Freedom is expensive and sometimes our morality and values must be compromised to protect it. I don't like it, but at least I am being honest about my personal conflict with this issue.<br /><br />McCain may be a poor one to use as an example precisely becasue he HAS been in those shoes . . .
.<br /> its no wonder our power and with it credibility has eroded so much. actually I should say credibility then power cause without the first ya aint got the last.<br /> but going back to the torture thing its plain wrong and has never worked. if you know an event is coming in an hour its to late. the intel wont be dissemenated and odds are you will be lied to anyway.<br /> I did some sere training not the full couse and I am telling you its intense. ask anyone who has done the sere school.<br /> plus we trained most the leaders of the larger terror groups in ways and means as well as resistance, ya think they did not pass along the knowledge. we are now finding we were the absolute best teachers of terror methods on the planet. now we have to fight them. we trained osama and the taliban as well as some groups in iran and egypt along with saddam. we also trained a few in argentina,venezuela,nicaraugra the hondura and brazil.<br /> the problem with teaching is if the student strays ya cant take back what ya taught.<br /> good to know our teachers were so good though. at least that was not a waste of training dollars.
No appologies are required for stating your opinion here, Wheley.<br /><br />But perhaps you have a point about using the same tactics and weapons deployed by the scum (thus legitimizing it) And perhaps the "rusty wood saw" was a bit much....<br />Let's provide some lubrication on the blade to make the cut less painful -- something like pig fat for instance?
<br /><br />And if they had the same manpower and weaponry that we have to bear in this "jihaad" (as they call this war), New York City would be a glowing glass parking lot by now. They would have used it long ago, and in a new york minute!<br />We are civilized, and yet -- at times, i wish we COULD give it to them, ***-for-tat!<br /><br />But no, Whaley, we don't need to take innocent lives to make a point. We just need to kill scum that WOULD to make OUR point. Let's start with Sadamn and the other high-level POW's, and work our way down to their families, one at a time, after each IED goes off...Or after each suicide bombing they perpetrate.<br /> <br />I have no problem with using Sadamn's old torture chamber as a pow prison, and stacking their naked arses like so many cord-wood piramids. <br />Why? <br />Because it is torture to them. It is the most degrading thing one can do to them while they still breathe my air.<br />After death, well, that's another matter. I heard some practices that we use here in routine funerals happen to dishoner or humiliate them. But in all honesty, i do not care about them at this point. I have no use for terropists, whether they come from Irland or Arabia. They all draw vacuum IMHO.
Lets not be silly. Where is frequently as important who. Knowing that the attack is to be on LAX would make a huge difference in the deployment of resources and allow for the use of technolgies to hopefully id a known terrorist, but I could see where evacuating people would be of huge assistance especially if it is your family in the airport. You are smarter than this.<br /><br />You may not like the scenario but to say it is unrealistic would be wrong. How many dead would it take before you took the hose to someone? If we were to have adhered to your interpretation of torture in wars past, we would be singing a different national anthem.
...JK
just fyi, I was quoting Louis XIII's prime minister, Cardinal Richelieu, from the 15th century; some historians credit him with inventing the "secret police" - he was no stranger to torture. "for reasons of state" meaning, sort of, national security interests override all other concerns. End justifies the means.<br /><br />You seldom have clergy holding political office anymore; heads of state must do things that heads of church must never do, por les raisons d'etat. Hypocritical? Maybe...luckily, humans are gifted with the ability to maintain a state of "cognitive dissonance" - the ability to simultaneously hold two contradictory beliefs - some are just more gifted than others.<br /><br />hey, it's just a theory...
