Twin battery set-up in pictures

[puddlesplasher]

Hi all,

I experienced 2 flat batteries at sea a few days ago. The auxilliary outboard got us home from 1 mile offshore. As we all agree this should never have happened so what was the cause?

1) A flat/low battery that turned the engine over successfully on the initial first turn.

2) A leak to earth?

Below are pictures of my set up. Is it done correctly? Both batteries are linked by a negative cable and run independantly from the switch. 1 battery for the O/B and the other for the accessories.

On the reverse of the switch, at the bottom are 2 small screws and are marked "field", what are they?

I try to start on battery 1 as thats the one to the engine and then I switch to BOTH when steaming. At the mark I switch to 2 and run the fishfinder, chart plotter and radio. Upon setting off again, I start with battery 2, switch to both and then use 1 in the same fashion at the next mark.

So, am I correct in my set up nad battery switch usage?

http://i52.tinypic.com/2n1xr89.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/296k576.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/16ay06s.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/zit9mr.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/11l04qu.jpg

 

[scooper77515]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

There is a lot of stuff hooked up to that rear battery. That stuff will work and draw power even if you have the switch set to NONE. So use that battery to run radio and all when off shore, and keep the front battery on only when engine is running to charge it, then switch it off and run only on the rear battery.

Use that front battery to start the boat when the rear one dies from all the draw on it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Need to test what your charge is by measuring the voltage while the engine is running. Also, you need to determine if there is anything drawing power with the engine off. Easiest way to do this is to remove the cables/wires and measure with a meter measuring current between the cable/wire and the battery post.


Other observations:

Major hack job on those cables where they connect to the switch. Whoever made those cables didn't know what they were doing. I would have some made with shrink sleeve so they are sealed.

Also, none of the wires to the one battery have any fuses or breakers.

The field terminals are alternator field disconnects that you can run your alternator field inputs to. This would basically disable your alternator in the event you accidentily switched to off while the engine was runnning. Not necessary to have this connected.

 

[puddlesplasher]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Your point on the switch cables is well taken. That was me

I had a look at the wiring to see if anything is running to earth and can't find anything. My presumption is that the batteries were not fully charged in the first instance.

How long should it take for the O/B to charge the battery when running?

Although it looks like a lot of accessories on the battery there is very little usage. Only the radio, chartplotter and fishfinder. The bilge pump is manual as I cannot get the automatic side of it to work.

The other cables are my voltmeter wires and 2 leads + -, taken up to a busbar in the cabin.

I really should reduce the distance of the cables and shorten the wiring onto the busbars.

All the electrics are fused further up the line.

 

[produceguy]

Re: car battery in a boat

Re: car battery in a boat

Hello , can you use car batteries in a boat and what is the diffirence of a boat battery? NEW to me, just bought my first boat dont know anything but Im learning.

 

[puddlesplasher]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Thats what I have, Click the links above in my first post.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

OK just some basics and understand I'm not trying to blast you but you kinda got a fire hazard going here ok? First thing I see wrong is two completely different style batteries and thats not good, solution: go get two new batteries with the same manufacture dates on them, reason being is that you want two batteries as close to the same capacity as possible as well as the same expected lifespan. Also with the switch you have in the both position if a battery goes bad it reverses itself from a storage device to a load and drains the other battery, I think your on the cusp of this now. Like others have said you have a couple issues with your wiring, all connections should be sealed and soldered if possible, the high humidity environment that boats live in is a wonderful environment for corrosion, soldering and sealing connections keeps corrosion out as long as possible(the reason why I say as long as possible is because soldering and sealing will fail eventually also). Fuses: all loads should be fused within 12 inches of the source MAXIMUM, you also should not have any wires other then the battery cables themselves attached to the batteries directly, batteries are the worst source of corrosion in your system better to take all other connections to your switch, one of the things I have done is installed isolated studs to my switch so that I don't have to mess with taking my switch off the wall I just take my connections to the appropriate stud, they cost $5 at checker/orielly. You only need a couple loads that should be "Hot", automatic bilge and stereo memory all others should goto a switched position on your main switch. Not sure about an out board but an alternator on a V8 motor will fully charge a dead battery in less then 15 minutes.

I know its alot to think about but its a couple hours work on your boat and it will pay dividends or your ego. Using one of your batteries for one option and the other for the rest is a Ford versus Chevy argument to me so do what you feel is best I run both or off myself but I am anal about electrical issues as well as my boat. I have about 2000 watts of stereo in my boat and poor connections can cause havoc with stereos so good luck and feel free to PM me if you need.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: car battery in a boat

Re: car battery in a boat

Hello , can you use car batteries in a boat and what is the diffirence of a boat battery? NEW to me, just bought my first boat dont know anything but Im learning.

Yes you can but the prefered method for most boat applications is a marine deep cycle battery, if you have two batteries replace them both at the same time with the same style battery with the same manufacture date.

 

[Bondo]

Re: car battery in a boat

Re: car battery in a boat

How long should it take for the O/B to charge the battery when running?

Ayuh,.... Depending on the outboard,... Days,... Weeks,... Never....

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: car battery in a boat

Re: car battery in a boat

Yes you can but the prefered method for most boat applications is a marine deep cycle battery,

Not true.
For cranking the motor you need a "Cranking Battery",
For running things that need a long discharge rate you need a "Deep Cycle".
Its not advised to use a deep cycle for cranking, just like you dont want to use a cranking batt for running a trolling motor.
I run one of each, seperated by a Perko switch. Normal operation is batt 1 (cranking battery) "on". The factory wiring is the only thing hooked to this side.
Batt 2 is a deep cycle, Any accessories that are added get hooked to this side and can operate with the switch in any position.
Usually on the trip in, or if needed, I run in the "both position" to charge the #2 batt.

if you have two batteries replace them both at the same time with the same style battery with the same manufacture date.

Again, not true.
As long as the battery test out within spec, you dont need to replace it.
Also as stated above, you dont need to run the same kinds of batteries.

 

[skargo]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

I definitely agree with bifflefan, no reason at all to have 2 matched batteries, and no need to have them manufactured at the same date.
The only time you should have your switch on "both" is when you are charging them both.
My boat, switch set to 1 is my start battery, I start and run to my destinations. Switch to 2 when I anchor, raft up, etc. Then when I pull anchor or leave raft up I switch back to 1 to start, then run home set to both to top batteries off
Battery 1=cranking battery.
Battery 2=deep cell "house" battery.

Now my diesel two rig, that needs 2 of the same batteries, I replace them with identical units at the same time as they are both always connected to my truck's system.

I do agree with not having all the stuff wired to the battery like it is, everything except bilge and stereo memory should go through the switch, and be properly fused.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: car battery in a boat

Re: car battery in a boat

Its not advised to use a deep cycle for cranking,

Definitely not true. A deep discharge battery can deliver plenty of cranking amps for an outboard motor starter. I use one on a 7.4L engine.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Well as usual this is turning into a debate so to the OP all I will say is that you should do your own research, what I am stating is industry standard in the field I work in, I do communications sites in the Rocky Mountain Region, I install and maintain battery backup systems from one battery to nearly a hundred batteries, 12v DC to minus 48V DC, automotive batteries to Battery shelves of 600 lbs a shelve 4 batteries per shelve and its always the same standard, I see no reason why it would be different in a boat. Everyone has an opinion but what I am telling you is the practice the industry dictates I follow for large battery systems and then I also follow in my personal life, my camper, boat and both my diesel trucks, all get the same treatment and I have never had an issue, I don't kill my batteries when they get low on float voltage I simply change them both. What I will tell you is that if you choose to follow another practice watch for batteries in your system that swell or change shape, I would change them asap but ultimately its your choice.

 

[skargo]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Like I said, IF you use a switch, and use it properly, you do NOT need to have the same batteries. It's been this way forever in the boating world.

LippCJ7, those batteries you are working with aren't going through a switch, so let's compare apples to apples OK?

 

[zippoo]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

I work with deep cell battery daily we change them out if we find them more then 1 volt differnt from the other two in a string of 3 it seems to work well for us. I like even power I always try to match the volts of the other batterys that are in play.

 

[puddlesplasher]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Well as usual this is turning into a debate so to the OP all I will say is that you should do your own research.

Lipp please do not be offeneded as I listen to all people before making a decision. If I make a wrong choice then it is after listening or reading to all people that have been interested in advising me.

Please post with your appreciated advice.

The only time you should have your switch on "both" is when you are charging them both.
My boat, switch set to 1 is my start battery, I start and run to my destinations. Switch to 2 when I anchor, raft up, etc. Then when I pull anchor or leave raft up I switch back to 1 to start, then run home set to both to top batteries off
Battery 1=cranking battery.
Battery 2=deep cell "house" battery.


I do agree with not having all the stuff wired to the battery like it is, everything except bilge and stereo memory should go through the switch, and be properly fused.

Ok so have I got the switch wired properly? battery 1 for starting,Immediately both when running and use 2 for fishfinder, vhf etc, then turn it back to 1 to start?

Let me get this in my head.

Are you guys advocating that all my accessories with the exception of a stereo and bilge pump be connected to the rear of the switch at the No2 position?

Is this simply a case of taking my Busbar leads + - from the cabin and connecting that to the rear of No2 switch.

This sounds easy in lay-mans terms so please keep this easy.

I understand about fires as that is my profession of 23 years but then again I have the advice of a crew to assist when I visit you!!

Like I said, IF you use a switch, and use it properly, you do NOT need to have the same batteries. It's been this way forever in the boating world.

LippCJ7, those batteries you are working with aren't going through a switch, so let's compare apples to apples OK?

Guys, chill please as this will not resolve my issue.

Please post with advice but if you can refrain from shouting at others then from me at leat it is appreciated. I read everyones advice and thats why i have posted here as my battery set up was suggested at another forum. Obviously the advice may have been corrupted.

Bear in mind that properly passed information will go a long way especially as others in my situation may read the replies.

I know that I want to read advice given directly to me but it needs to remain impartial so as to NOT upset others.

Please carry on Guys, I really do appreciate it.

Is it impolite to suggest a simple single line diagram for me from a positive and negative bus bar in the cabin to the dual battery arrangement combined with the switch and outboard + -

Whilst I understand that I am asking a little much you must all believe that I appreciate the advice.

Puddle.

If the battery has my connections then when I use battery 2 (accessories) does the outboard start?

Surely it will be 1 for starting and 2 can only be used for starting if used in parallel with 1 ie. BOTH!!!!!

To say I am confused is an understatement.

In my defence I am a Plater (to trade) and not a Sparky

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Bud I'm not offended in the least, this debate happens in all of the websites just part of the internet you know? I give my opinion with certain specifications I have to follow in my career and if others think I am wrong thats fine.

So yeah I only connect the battery cables to the batteries, all other connections go to the perko(red battery switch) or my ground stud, the problem with the battery is its just a corrosion magnet and doing this reduces the possibility of corrosion is all.

So I'll will give my answer to your questions but its only my opinion:

Ok so have I got the switch wired properly? battery 1 for starting,Immediately both when running and use 2 for fishfinder, vhf etc, then turn it back to 1 to start?

My opinion is yes and no, I run in both or off with my setup, I use the system as a whole or off, I would attach the fishfinder vhf etc to both although I would probably wire these to the helm electrical in my boat they simply do not draw enough power to overuse the existing wiring in my boat, that being said if your running an amp for the stereo then that would have to go back to the battery switch as it is a large draw 20+ amps in some cases so I would need more background on your setup to give a more accurate answer.

Are you guys advocating that all my accessories with the exception of a stereo and bilge pump be connected to the rear of the switch at the No2 position?

Yes this is pretty much the common feeling, the idea is that if you leave your boat in the water unattended and something happens the bilge will do whatever it can to keep the boat afloat, the stereo on the other hand needs a hot wire to keep its memory so if you wish to keep your presets then it has to have a hot wire. Switch no2 position is just the battery cable to battery no2 and we have already got this solved.

Is this simply a case of taking my Busbar leads + - from the cabin and connecting that to the rear of No2 switch.

Yes and no, the buss bar+ can go to the battery switch no2 but the - has to go to the battery - post, this is another place where I added another isolated stud and 2 gauge wire again so that I don't attach directly to the battery.

My personal belief is that you have a battery system why not use that system to the fullest, with minor maintenance your system can last for 5 to 10 years depending on certain variables, but most importantly is getting familiar with your system and how you wish to use it.

 

[skargo]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

I find it interesting that you took my response as shouting. As it was as pleasant and polite as can be.

I will unsubscribe from this thread. Best of luck to you.

 

[puddlesplasher]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Bud I'm not offended in the least, this debate happens in all of the websites just part of the internet you know? I give my opinion with certain specifications I have to follow in my career and if others think I am wrong thats fine.

So yeah I only connect the battery cables to the batteries, all other connections go to the perko(red battery switch) or my ground stud, the problem with the battery is its just a corrosion magnet and doing this reduces the possibility of corrosion is all.

So I'll will give my answer to your questions but its only my opinion:

Ok so have I got the switch wired properly? battery 1 for starting,Immediately both when running and use 2 for fishfinder, vhf etc, then turn it back to 1 to start?

My opinion is yes and no, I run in both or off with my setup, I use the system as a whole or off, I would attach the fishfinder vhf etc to both although I would probably wire these to the helm electrical in my boat they simply do not draw enough power to overuse the existing wiring in my boat, that being said if your running an amp for the stereo then that would have to go back to the battery switch as it is a large draw 20+ amps in some cases so I would need more background on your setup to give a more accurate answer.

Are you guys advocating that all my accessories with the exception of a stereo and bilge pump be connected to the rear of the switch at the No2 position?

Yes this is pretty much the common feeling, the idea is that if you leave your boat in the water unattended and something happens the bilge will do whatever it can to keep the boat afloat, the stereo on the other hand needs a hot wire to keep its memory so if you wish to keep your presets then it has to have a hot wire. Switch no2 position is just the battery cable to battery no2 and we have already got this solved.

Is this simply a case of taking my Busbar leads + - from the cabin and connecting that to the rear of No2 switch.

Yes and no, the buss bar+ can go to the battery switch no2 but the - has to go to the battery - post, this is another place where I added another isolated stud and 2 gauge wire again so that I don't attach directly to the battery.

My personal belief is that you have a battery system why not use that system to the fullest, with minor maintenance your system can last for 5 to 10 years depending on certain variables, but most importantly is getting familiar with your system and how you wish to use it.

I asked that you keep this in laymans terms.

Yeas/No is confusing. Can you rewrite this possibly? One minute I think YESSSSS I have that then I think NOOOOOOO thats not.. then yes.. no...

You are confusing?

 

[puddlesplasher]

Re: Twin battery set-up in pictures

Is this simply a case of taking my Busbar leads + - from the cabin and connecting that to the rear of No2 switch.[/B]

Yes and no, the buss bar+ can go to the battery switch no2 but the - has to go to the battery - post, this is another place where I added another isolated stud and 2 gauge wire again so that I don't attach directly to the battery.

My personal belief is that you have a battery system why not use that system to the fullest, with minor maintenance your system can last for 5 to 10 years depending on certain variables, but most importantly is getting familiar with your system and how you wish to use it.

My busbars are connected to the batteries but should it be the switch that they are connected to as opposed to the battery?

Im even more confused.

The black wire (from now on is negative) is connected to the black (negative) and looped to the second battery