Unintentional stringer job

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

As much as I hate non-picture updates, it's time for another.

I've been waiting on a new shipment of epoxy, and it finally came in. I should have enough to finish my deck install, especially if I use PL adhesive for the deck and poly resin to cover the "shelf" under the fuel tank.

I did use close to a gallon of epoxy mixed with white pigment and graphite (separately) to color/cover my bilges. The fuel tank area will be black, and the under deck storage will be white. The graphite mix covers like nobody's business... I'll put some pics up of that soon.

I'm also using spare resin from this to coat my cleats - the 2x2 boards I'm going to attach on the edges of the stringers and the deck/hull joint to provide a stronger join.

I've used hole saws to drill the holes in my stringers for the fuel filler line into the tank compartment, and two smaller ones forward for the electrical conduit between my console and the port side.. that'll make wiring over there much easier. Plus the conduit runs through my new battery compartment, which I still need to ventilate.. I'm thinking I'll run a bilge pump type hose from the compartment to the portside air vent.

I'm out of town this weekend until sunday, but I'm going to work on a templating tutorial when I start measuring for the deck sections.

I made a list of everything I want to do to this boat before summer... I don't think I'll get it all done before July even

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

awesome job bud

I made a list of everything I want to do to this boat before summer... I don't think I'll get it all done before July even

Erik

my mental list of things i want done......and the list of things i NEED

to get done are quite different.......a lot of the structural is done....a lot of the rest can wait.....stupid stuff,,... like mounting the wizzbang just right..(above deck)..and fabricating the automatic docking line shooters.....are now second to getting the craft seaworthy....

once its on the water and running true...ill have lots of time to make the..... "beer keg regridgerator/pouring station"

just a thought....and again....yer doing a great job...really clean.

cheers
oops

ps.....loved the dragon skin comment....

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Well, I've been so lazy about getting some pictures, so I thought I'd do another update without 'em.

I've been spending a lot of time getting the cleats and tank supports ready. The cleats are just 1 1/2 inch square lumber that I've coated with epoxy and glued to the sides of the top edges of my stringers. Basically they form a larger surface to glue the deck to and reinforce the deck/stringer joint.

I've also cut wood for the battery compartment shelf, and cut two pieces slightly too small for the fuel tank shelf. Grrr. At least it wasn't great wood. I'm going to have the home depot cut me a piece of exterior ply to the right size at the store, and I'll bring it home and try glassing it with poly resin to save a little epoxy.

I realized my battery compartment hatch isn't going to fit, so I have to make one instead of using the camlock hatch I bought - I'll just use it elsewhere. There are plenty of old school ways to make a deck hatch.

I've also been putting in PVC pipe for conduit through the battery compartment to the console on one side and up along the hull on the other side. Once the deck is on it'll make it easier to run additional wiring to the port side of the boat.

I'm almost there.. I'm going to buy some sawhorses today and cut some deck sections. Once they're fitted I'll coat the underside with poly before gluing them in with PL.

This will include the deck section that covers the fuel tank well and I have to put its supporting hardware in, too.

After the deck sections are on, I'll be fairing the joints, glassing with 8 oz cloth, filleting the deck/hull joint with peanut butter and finishing it with biaxial (1 layer). Then I'll cut holes for the hatches and inspection plates. Then I'll probably fair the edges with PL sealant a bit and apply the vinyl and seal and screw in the inspection plates.

Then it'll be time to work on the wiring

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Well, I've been so lazy about getting some pictures, so I thought I'd do another update without 'em.

I'm almost there.. I'm going to buy some sawhorses today and cut some deck sections. Once they're fitted I'll coat the underside with poly before gluing them in with PL.

then ittl be time to work on the wiring

Erik

wheres the pics?.... ...lol

if i may suggest. that during your undercoating you throw a very light csm.... .05 oz in the resin...poly is sooooo weak by it self. and might have a tendancy to crack.....then all work is in vain.......

i just love it when you can see daylight.....we spend so many hours with our heads up our stringers we think well never get done. !

keep atter erik !

cheers oops

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Erik, Thanks for the Input on my Stringers, I have learned alot from you and all the others an this site.

Where are the updates on your boat?????

I have a fundamentally stupid question for you experienced fiber glasser's.
When laying up more than one layer Wet-on-Wet, would it be wrong to put lets say a 10" piece first, followed by a slightly smaller piece, maybe 8".?
VS
Smaller overlapped by larger?

The reason I ask is; I have tried both ways smaller first then larger overlapping, when using the thicker cloth the second larger piece has had a tendacy to not want to lay quite right at the point that it overlaps, and it is no doubt a spot to trap some air too.

I was just curious what is the correct way and why?

Lund

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

yup overlap and 2 at a time....


smaller first....i read your using a wet out table....

place the small strip on the table...wet it...then the larger ....even a third if you can...

the reason is less resin for the whole lay up and faster progress....the reason for the overlap is to make each new layer contact the area just a bit more. this will make the bond stronger....wet on wet is a chemical bond and is stronger than a mechanical bond...(mechanical bonds...if the surface is prepped correctly is still very strong)

wet out the area you are glassing first..before you wet out the glass..this will let the area get sticky.....

place the glass perfectialy...so the smallest layer is excatally where you want it to be....then press it lightly in to place....then roll in and remove all air bubbles.....if you do 24 inch sections...(aprox 1/2 of your 50 inch roll) this process is easy...and fast...youll whip thru your stringers and be at beer-o-clock before you know it....and your doin a fine job lund.....

ill post pics tonight of this process...(i hope)


btw...erik...love your work

cheers
oops

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Okay, I got guilty about doing so much with no pictures, so here's a couple. I've made a fair bit of progress since the last update.

I cut four sections of 3/4" ply for decking, glassed the underside with epoxy and 8 oz cloth, and PL glued them down to the stringers and cleats.

I had been going to use poly for the underside, but I just didn't have the weather to do it outside, and I didn't want to stink up my garage for a whole day.

So the glass will add some stiffness and strength, which is good. Here's what it looks like now with the deck sections in place:

As you can see the tank compartment and the forward battery compartment (pic below) are going to be painted (epoxy + graphite) black. That stuff covers like nobody's business. I have the shelving in the tank compartment done, but I think I'll seal it up some more yet, just for overkill.

Here's the shelf and fuel tank outside the boat:

I still have to find a useable type of plastic sheeting for making the "ribs" that'll hold the tank off the shelf. I also need to put some drain holes in the shelf and fully glass it. That's the floor to the fuel tank compartment ahead of it on the sawhorses... it's a 3/4" piece of PT that I'm going to epoxy heavily, then watch to see if it corrodes anything.

Here's one more pic from a bit different angle showing the forward battery box, right at the step down. I'm going to have to work out a hatch for it since the two hatches I have are going to go a bit ahead of the engine bulkhead to the left and right of the tank compartment. They will access the underdeck storage I set up in there.

I also have four inspection plates that will go in.

One other thing - you can't see it behind the batteries, but I put in some PVC as conduit from the console to the battery box to the portside. I'll be running the charging cables to the battery box from the engine area along the port side, and via that conduit to the box. I'll also use it for speaker wires, instrument networking, etc.

Next step is to fillet and glass the deck, which will fully join it to the hull and existing deck stubs. Then comes the fuel tank compartment hatch, and a bit of work on the battery box shelf, then the hatch for that.

Then comes the nautolex and new carpet (for the sides of the hull), new side boards, fixing of wiring, install of a new bilge pump (another one), install of bench seat and captain's chair, build and install tank racks, weld a dive ladder, maybe install a kicker motor, and service the transom. If I have time I'll rebuild my spare sterndrive leg with new seals.

Oh, and also new axles for the trailer.

I love working on this stuff, but I'm beginning to feel a bit of time crunch... I want to be on the water with this thing by mid may... so some stuff may happen after that.

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

awesome progress erik

Then comes the nautolex and new carpet (for the sides of the hull), new side boards, fixing of wiring, install of a new bilge pump (another one), install of bench seat and captain's chair, build and install tank racks, weld a dive ladder, maybe install a kicker motor, and service the transom. If I have time I'll rebuild my spare sterndrive leg with new seals.

Oh, and also new axles for the trailer.

I love working on this stuff, but I'm beginning to feel a bit of time crunch... I want to be on the water with this thing by mid may... so some stuff may happen after that.

Erik

im beginning to think that the project is never done....there is allways somthing "more" to add

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Okay, even though I'm working on the boat almost every day, there's not a lot of major progress items... I'm just trying up loose ends, basically.

However, at this point the deck is glassed in, and I'm finishing the fuel and forward battery compartments. I've been working on getting conduit sealed and ready to go in prep for electrical work. I also finished coating the fuel tank compartment with black epoxy - epoxy mixed with graphite:

Once that hardens I just have a couple holes to drill/seal in the shelf the tank will sit on and then I can install the shelf + tank. That's after the tank gets its "feet" under it though - I didn't have any surplus plastic sheeting, so I ended up using sections of an old piece of plexiglass to get the tank off the shelf. I'm attaching them with 5200, which won't adhere really well to plexi, so I sanded it to help some.

Mostly it's the tank's weight that will hold it in place anyway:

Once the 5200 that's there hardens I'll seal completely around the edges of each piece with more of it, so there's nowhere for water to hide. Then I'll put the tank on the shelf, which is a section of 1/2" ply sealed with epoxy, and both inside the tank compartment on the aluminum angle shelves shown above. The last screw holes I need to drill yet are the four or so screws to hold the tank shelf to the angle bracket, so the shelf doesn't move around yet is still easily removeable.

I'll probably glue the tank itself to the shelf with a couple lines of 5200, just so it stays put.

Then I have to finish the center deck section, which forms hatches for the fuel tank and battery compartments. I'll be mounting them on aluminum angle "shelves" too, positioned at the top of the stringers. I'll be screwing the fuel tank hatch down to the angle as well with about 6 screws, and I'm going to come up with some sort of latch for the battery compartment.

Finally, I've started working on the transom service. I had a hole in my bellows last summer that ruined my gimbal bearing, so I replaced that, and I'm working on installing a new bellows, water hose, and a trim sender.

I'm doing a bit of paint touch-up too, just to prevent corrosion.

Whew.

I still need to get my seating arrangements worked out plus install the nautolex, carpet, and some side boards, but progress is happening.

It's getting warmer here, and almost all the ice is gone, so I'm getting antsy

Erik

 

[Coors]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Excellent job.
I think Mods need to make a sticky.

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Your Project Looks great!
Tell me about that Graphite mixed with epoxy, what is your purpose for doing this and how do you mix it?
Mid May is coming fast.
Lund

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

It's basically a very durable, black colored coating that resists just about everything better than paint.

I purchased powdered graphite from bateau.com (any powdered graphite would work) and mixed in about 1 ounce of it with 16 ounces of epoxy. That's enough to give a pitch black color to the epoxy, which you then paint on with a roller.

According to other users of the stuff, you can paint boat bottoms with it, and it lasts a long time. The graphite gives UV resistance to the epoxy, the epoxy self levels very well, providing a smooth, shiny surface.

So far I like it for the tank bilge, and I may end up using it for the engine bilge eventually too, when I redo that next year.

Erik

 

[lundnisswa]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

That stuff looks awesome, I just may try a bit here and there,!.

Got a question for you, I am calling them Bulkheads, but basically those cross members that support the upper deck/livewell and form storage areas-when I am glassing them to the hull with 1708, would you use one layer or two-on the very forward bulkhead which is quite small I only used one layer, now I am ready to glass the second and third in that span over 5-6ft - running lowish on the 1708, my gut tells me two layers, but I have a tendacy to over do things.
Any thoughts?
Lund

Oh, on the PL cure with water-
I did the experiment, I layed two size beads, one I wet with water, and one without- the wet one did skim over faster, but on the inside of the bead there was no noticable difference.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Darn, I was hoping it would help out the cure significantly. I guess there's no substitute for time.

On the 1708 I'd probably just go with 1 layer... cross members are subjected to significantly less force than the lengthwise stringers in most boat designs, and I would guess yours is no exception...

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Well, I did not have a lot of fun tonight.

Yesterday I had glassed the bottom of my fuel tank hatch (the central third of my deck) and located and mounted the aluminum angle it sits on so the hatch would be level with the rest of the deck. I also did the final fitting on the shelf the fuel tank would sit on and sealed it - it's meant to sit on a pair of aluminum angle brackets that are through bolted to the stringers (see pics above).

Today I put the shelf in place, lugged the fuel tank into the boat and.... the tank on the shelf sits about an inch too high for the fittings on the fuel tank to clear the deck hatch. @(**$#(&%(@&$(&#@(@&($#&$(#&@#(&#.


So after cussing for a while at my lack of foresight, I assessed the situation. I could remove the lower aluminum angle, and set the shelf directly on the fillets for the stringers. That would let it sit lower down.

The problem is, I had attached the aluminum angle to the stringers with stainless steel through bolts, 5 per side, and sealed it with PL masonry + concrete sealer.

I decided that undoing the bolts with a pair of wrenches through hatch holes (which I hadn't cut yet anyway) wasn't an option. So out came the grinder with metal cutting disk, and I snipped off the heads of the bolts.

Then I tried to pull the angle out. It wouldn't budge. I hit it with a hammer... a 7 pound sledge. No dice. I put a chisel behind it and cut through the PL, then grabbed the end with a pliers and pulled for all I was worth... finally it came out... I had to bend each piece into a circle as I was pulling it out.

The PL crack and masonry sealer is tough stuff... as good as 5200, I say. The remnants of it on the stringers were smooth rubber... impossible to tear until I used a razor blade on it, cutting my finger in the process.

Once I had the PL trimmed, I used the hammer and a punch to drive the bolts back into their holes, and seal the holes with some more PL. I'll have to try to remove/seal the bolts from the other side once I get the hatches cut out.

Then I dropped the fuel tank shelf into the hole. It sat nicely on the fillets, and didn't rock or anything. So I used even more PL in two spots on the leading edge to glue it down some... just enough to keep it from shifting, but little enough so I could cut the PL with a knife if I needed to remove the tank to get to the bilge.

Then I test fit the tank onto the shelf again.... it sat about an inch lower!! With the extra clearance I would barely be able to fit the hatch into place.

But, then I noticed the filler hose hole was completely blocked by the side of the tank... I'd cut it too low, so the hose couldn't snake by the tank to reach the filler fitting. I used a hole saw to enlarge the hole... my stringers are plenty strong to allow that. I'll clean up the hole and line it with anti-abrasive material to keep it from rubbing the hose later.

Finally, I put the hatch into place. Or tried to. It's too short, and a little too wide :\

I can fix the width, but I need to cut a longer piece to make the length right.... I must have been drunk while measuring or something.

Anyway, tomorrow I'll pick up another sheet of plywood, and custom fit the hatch... then I can glass it again.

Progress, I guess.

Erik

 

[fixb52s]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Wow, sorry to hear about the fuel tank issue. I also has a tank issue, but mine was leaking. I found it before I put the deck piece back on, so it was not that bad. I also had to remove the deck support brackets I glued/sealed in, but they came out with a little work.

Got to love Murphy. He loves to reach out and touch.​

 

[redfury]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

It's amazing ones ability to make the proper measurements, but then somehow still find a way to cut something wrong. I managed to do that with a piece of sheetrock. I had all the measurements down right, cut the hole for the light, and put it up....the hole was in the wrong place! Then I flipped the piece over...perfectly lined up! d-oh!

I guess the idea behind test fitting stuff before you mount it or make something permanent is always the best course of action.

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

if i ever see that ba&^%$#trd murphy.....hes gonna die ! (ill give him a shot for you too !)

that pl's some serious stuff eh?......i also liked the way you hit it with a persueder and it didnt move........thats a real testamant to your work erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Just a quick update for those of you that may have an interest in how this job ended.

I've been trying to get the boat ready for a spring shakedown cruise, and it looks like that'll be happening next weekend.

So, in prep for that, this weekend I put the boat back on the trailer, took it out of the garage, cleaned out most of the remaining dust, washed the outside, put the windshield back on (heavy) and patched two through-hull holes I no longer needed. Oh, and I finished the transom service and got the new bellows and intake hose put on.

This week if I can I'll be getting at least 1-2 seats put in, putting the carpet on the sides, getting the blower replaced, battery tray put in, putting in some temporary side boards (the old sides were rotten), and doing a test of the engine.

I'll post a few pics here to close this thread out once I get the carpet in, and then I'll probably post some in my doghouse thread when I work on that, plus maybe eventual threads for the cuddy renewal and the bodywork and paint job that the hull needs at this point.

But, I'll also be starting the diving season soon, so I may just take her out a bunch of times before any more serious work happens

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Unintentional stringer job

Just a quick update for those of you that may have an interest in how this job ended.


Erik

the whole site has intrest in this one erik......

ive watched you do fantastic work.

on a side note, i dont know if any of the boats here will ever be finished. it allways seems there is just one more thing to add.

but. im gonna pop a beer open and cheers to your work.

oops