Upholstery advice

[Joker757]

The vinyl on my seats of my 1999 Maxum 2800SCR are beginning to show thier age and I'm thinking that I'd like to tackle it myself. First step is to get a sewing machine that will be up to the task. I've been looking on Craig's list and Ebay and I've narrowed down to two machines.

1. Singer 111w for $160. Seller says it was recently serviced and is in perfect running condition
2. Consew 206RB-3 for $390. Seller says it was serviced before being put up for sale and all questionable screws/springs, etc have been replaced.

Both are just the head unit only. I've been looking and a table/motor will run about $250. I don't want to go overboard and spend more than necessary and would appreciciate suggestions as to which one to go with. From what I can tell the main differences between the two is that the Singer doesn't have a reverse option and has a 3/8" clearance under the pressure foot whereas the consew has a 5/8" clearance and reverse. Not sure what else is different.

I'm leaning towards the Consew. If I don't use the machine after this project I could most likely sell it and recoupe most of my investment. On the other hand if the Singer will suffice for what I'm looking to do for less of an investment then I'll go that route. But being new to this I'm just not sure which one to get.

Lastly I was looking to use Naugahide's Naugasoft Vinyl. It's heavier than some of their other products and is one of their most abrasion resitant vinyls. I want something that will last and stand up to the abuse they will get. Any recommendations on this will be apreciated as well.

I'll post some before pics this week and during the refurb as well.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery advice

This may or may not be of help. I started with a 35 yr old Sears Kenmore Household machine and created the covers for thre ranger bass boat fishing seats. It was a little light for the job so I recently upgraded to a 25 yr old MORSE industrial. It sews through 8 layers of Marine Vinyl like hot butter. The link below documents my latest endeavor (with videos) on creating a bench seat for my restoration. The machines you mention will work but IMHO are way overkill. I paid $75 for the Morse off of Craigslist and all I did was clean and oil it and it works like a new one. I think any Industrial grade or heavy duty machine that will sew up to 8 layers of Denim will work just fine for your purposes. A walking foot would allow you to create totally professional exposed stitches but you will pay for it. I did not need exposed stitching so my machine works great for me.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=524995

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Upholstery advice

Hello I am no expert on what machine to buy. I bought an old singer 66 for 125 bucks from ebay shipped to my house. You don't need to spend a bunch. Mine is an antique so when I am done I can keep it or sell it as an antique. I bought one from badgerland sewing in ebay. He takes machines on trade and services them and resales them. Maybe I got lucky but I bought mine 2 years ago from him and he still has 100% feedback. My wife uses this one instead of the one I bought her . I was told to try and get one with a 1 amp motor but I could not find one. I was also told that the regular motor was ok for the diy'er. I tackled my seats first thing and on the back of my seats I had pockets. So I had to sew the front with foam and the piping plus the back with foam and another 2 layers of vinyl for the pocket. So I had like6 layers of vinyl and foam and had no problems. It was slow going but for 2 layers of vinyl and piping in between it sews like a piece of cake and does not miss a beat.

 

[wagnerz]

Re: Upholstery advice

I went ahead and used the wife's sewing machine. I read on here about buying the industrial one, but I decided to risk it. I bought a large 20 needle and the rope like thread. I was able to go through 6 layers of vinyl in some section with ease, just had to take it slow. The only hard part was going around corners and making turns on the stupid thing. It was a pain in the butt, but the amount of money I saved really saved by butt.

 

[BillP]

Re: Upholstery advice

I sewed boat canvas on both machines and owned the early version Consew 206-RB1. The Singer is smooth running and a great machine. The Consew is not as smooth but will churn out anything you put on a boat without issues. Durability is not a problem with either machine. If memory is right the Consew additionally had self oiling and a safety clutch on the bobbin. The determining factor for me would be the reverse...no reverse, no buy. Life is much easier with reverse, you don't have to turn the fabric to back stitch. Doing large pieces with thick material makes the task even harder when doing reinforcements. Since you are new to industrial machines, gear them for slow runs. Both machines will run way faster than you can control for boat work. Slowing them down gives more control.

PM me for details on a stand, motor and Singer 95-1 for dirt cheap. It's about 2 hrs north of WPB and will do it all...but no reverse. No, I'm not a dealer or reseller.

Bill P.

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

How important is it to have reverse? Given the advise I'll most likely go with the Singer but will still need a table and motor. The motor has a reverse function so I guess I could use it to lock my stitches but just won't be as convienant as having reverse on the head unit.

Nice video WoG. Very informative. I've been researching like crazy and have run accross a couple of other good ones as well.

Jack. Seeing those before pics of your stringers just gives me the heebee geebees. Whenever I see something like that it makes me wonder what's going on underneath my deck. From the areas that are visible all looks well but it's always in the back of my mind. I bought my boat used in 2004 and so far no real structural issues yet. I did have it surveyed before I purchased it and it got a clean bill of health.

Any suggestions on the vinyl. So much to choose from it's hard for a beginner to make a decision.

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

I sewed boat canvas on both machines and owned the early version Consew 206-RB1. The Singer is smooth running and a great machine. The Consew is not as smooth but will churn out anything you put on a boat without issues. Durability is not a problem with either machine. If memory is right the Consew additionally had self oiling and a safety clutch on the bobbin. The determining factor for me would be the reverse...no reverse, no buy. Life is much easier with reverse, you don't have to turn the fabric to back stitch. Doing large pieces with thick material makes the task even harder when doing reinforcements. Since you are new to industrial machines, gear them for slow runs. Both machines will run way faster than you can control for boat work. Slowing them down gives more control.

PM me for details on a stand, motor and Singer 95-1 for dirt cheap. It's about 2 hrs north of WPB and will do it all...but no reverse. No, I'm not a dealer or reseller.

Bill P.

Thanks Bill. I too was sceptical about not having reverse. The motor I was looking at has a speed control and reverse so thought I might be able to use that in lieu of having a reverse function on the head unit inself. Can I use the max speed setting on the motor (1/2hp servo motor) to limit the top speed or do I need a gear reducer? The Consew is self oiling.

 

[oops!]

Re: Upholstery advice

thanks to bill on this one.....

imho ....we cant actually recommend a machine unless someone here has used both machines, and can say one is better for the other in certain situations.

i run a big commercial singer machine used for drapery. i liked my reverse, due to the fact i did not have to turn the material around to double stitch a seam

 

[BillP]

Re: Upholstery advice

I don't know how convenient a reversing motor would be but this method was used back in the beginning of motorized sewing machines. For some reason they changed to having it on the head. If the motor has a speed control I suppose there is no need to play with pully sizes. I've never run a setup with speed control and reversing motor so my thoughts are just mental. With that in mind you may want to reconsider the Singer because the savings are big and it's a great machine too. When you hear "it runs smooth as a sewing machine" they are talking Singer.

Naugahide brand has always been at the high end of quality (and price) but you won't go wrong with it.

 

[oops!]

Re: Upholstery advice

lol.....

i run a speed control with reverse.

like i mentioned....i love the reverse.

but as far as the speed control. my machine is made for draperys .....many yards of fabric as fast as it can go.....lol....it does some stupid amount of stitiches a minit....
the pedal is really tricky.....even at the slowest adjustment.....just a weee bit too hard on the pedal during start......and zip......you are thru 2 feet of seam before you can stop !

this is my machine

this is the motor....lol

the gas pedal

the black lever at the base is the reverse

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

nice setup you have there oops. I spoke to the owner of one of the local sewing machine service/sales centers and he said that while there are many brands of good machines for what I'm looking to do that I should stick with the more well know brands as parts/service will be easier if the need arises. He mentioned Singer, Consew, Pfaff, Juki. I'm really not to keen to use the reverse on the motor mainly because it's seems to awkward. I would have to reach under the table to put the motor in reverse then again to go back in forward. I'm really leaning more towards the Consew for a couple of reasons.
1. Pickup will be local
2. Includes the table, motor, light and thread holders
3. Many shops locally for parts, repair and service
4. And if I enjoy this (I like working with my hands) and it turns out nice I would definately consider taking on small projects on the side.
5. It appears to be one of the more well known brands/models so selling it shouldn't be that difficult. I could sell it and most likely recoupe most of my investment.

One more question. What size welting cord do you guys usually use?

I'll let you guys know what I finally end up getting and post some pics. Thanks again for all the helpful insight.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Upholstery advice

Well that is some machine Oops. I just bought an old 1940 Singer 66 used for making sails. Come with all accessories and books .I figured when I am done I am probably done Move on to another project on my bucket list. I have been offered 400 for mine because of the condition and collectors love it but I will keep it and use it if needed and pass it on to someone. In reference to the welting I used 5/32 in my seats and I used the foam material and bought a piping foot off of ebay for like 5-7 bucks.

Jack

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

Thanks Jack. There should definately be a section in the forums for this kind of stuff. Maybe not just specific to upholstery but maybe upholstery/interior restoration. Finding info on this in the forums isn't easy. Most of it is buried in a thread that's mainly related to structural/fiberglass restoration with upholstery/interior work sprinkled in. Very few threads indicating this type of work in the title of the thread.

 

[canvasgirl]

Re: Upholstery advice

Go with the Consew with a reverse. I've been doing cushions, canvas, awnings for 30 years. If your not an expert at sewing, practice, the walking foot and the speed of the machine will take a few practice cushions before you become comfortable with controlling the machine. When you choose a vinyl just make sure it is for marine/outdoor use and check the UV rating. Oh, and don't forget to use a welt foot, much easier than a half foot for cushions.

You can see some of my cushions at http://www.pycawnings.com/awnings/yacht-canvas-interiors

I'd be happy to help with your questions if you need anything.

 

[sasto]

Re: Upholstery advice

thanks to bill on this one.....

imho ....we cant actually recommend a machine unless someone here has used both machines, and can say one is better for the other in certain situations.

i run a big commercial singer machine used for drapery. i liked my reverse, due to the fact i did not have to turn the material around to double stitch a seam

Never cease to amaze me....We could use you here.....Bigtime!

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Upholstery advice

Oh, and don't forget to use a welt foot, much easier than a half foot for cushions.


I'd be happy to help with your questions if you need anything.

Hello and Welcome to iboats canvasgirl. The welt foot must be what I am calling a piping foot. You must have figured I am a Newb by now at sewing.

Do you use the welt foot just for making welting ,or do you sew your seams together after you have made the welting ? Then place the welting in the seam you want to sew with the welting foot rather then a half foot .

I bet you are good enough at sewing you do your seam and welting all in one

Example sewing a top of seat cushion to the side with welting then adding the bottom later.

JackCan you understand what I am trying to ask ?

 

[V153]

Re: Upholstery advice

Fwiw I have Consew 206 and 226's in my shop. Both extremely reliable machines. I'm amazed & frightened by what machines sell for these days. Time was you could buy a factory reconditioned 206 for about $500 bucks?! Guess we can kiss those days goodby?

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

Very nice looking work canvasgirl. Thanks for the advice. I'm no expert by a long shot. I've not touched in sewing machine in over 35 years. My grandmother made quilts and clothes and she used to let (ok...make) me help her but that was when I was a young lad. I am very good with my hands though and a stickler for detail so I think with the right instruction and some practice I can do a fairly decent job. My plan was to take the smallest seat and purchase the cheapest vinyl I can find and do a couple of pactice runs before attempting the final product. Thanks for the offer of your assistance. I'll definately be taking you up on it as I do have some questions regarding machine setup and the types of feet I should get. The machine currently has a 1/4" welting foot on it. I was also thinking of getting a edge stitch foot and a zipper foot. I'm picking up the machine tomorrow and will post some pics of it. I'll also get some pics of the seats I'm going to cover. The advice and instructions by other members on this board have been very helpful. Before I ran accross the posts by the other members I was really hesitant about tackling this as I just had no idea where to begin.

 

[Joker757]

Re: Upholstery advice

Hey sasto. I'm down road from you in West Palm Beach. Nice looking boat BTW. Love your sig "Winterization"!

 

[canvasgirl]

Re: Upholstery advice

Hello and Welcome to iboats canvasgirl. The welt foot must be what I am calling a piping foot. You must have figured I am a Newb by now at sewing.

Do you use the welt foot just for making welting ,or do you sew your seams together after you have made the welting ? Then place the welting in the seam you want to sew with the welting foot rather then a half foot .

I bet you are good enough at sewing you do your seam and welting all in one

Example sewing a top of seat cushion to the side with welting then adding the bottom later.

JackCan you understand what I am trying to ask ?

I'm sewing some ultraleather cushions today. I'll take some "in progress" pics and post them later. It's easier to explain with photos. Yes the piping foot is the same thing as a welt foot. You don't need a special foot for the zipper, just buy the right zipper. We use a nylon YKK #5 zipper.