Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

[ginyu6869]

I have been following Don's instruction on how to remove the upper gear box off, and I have the gear box lifted and turned as instructed, but I cannot pull it off. I removed the 2 allen bolts, then the 2 screws that are on the side and I disconnected the pin, then lifted the gear box sideways and pulled and it did not budge. I even put a pipe on the end of it to help with the force, but it still did not budge. Is there something that I am missing or suppose to take off? The U-Joints are pretty rusty, I dont know if this is the reason why they wont come off, I dont know, but I am posting some pics. Can someone help. Thanks.

 

[Don S]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

The problem is called rust. The bearings in the flywheel cover have probably been making a growling noise for a year or so.
Salt water got into the bearings of the flywheel cover due to a bad bellows and rust taking out the seal to those bearings. then the rust holds the splined shaft of the upper gear box to the shaft in the flywheel cover.
I have had to use a chain wrapped around the upper gear box and attached to a fork lift and with slack in the chain pulled it off like it was a big slide hammer.
You WILL be pulling the engine to get the flywheel cover off to replace the bearings, hopefully the shaft and housing aren't damaged.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

The problem is called rust. The bearings in the flywheel cover have probably been making a growling noise for a year or so.
Salt water got into the bearings of the flywheel cover due to a bad bellows and rust taking out the seal to those bearings. then the rust holds the splined shaft of the upper gear box to the shaft in the flywheel cover.
I have had to use a chain wrapped around the upper gear box and attached to a fork lift and with slack in the chain pulled it off like it was a big slide hammer.
You WILL be pulling the engine to get the flywheel cover off to replace the bearings, hopefully the shaft and housing aren't damaged.

What do you suggest that I can do from here? I have sprayed P B blaster on it and it still wont budge. Going to try again with the pipe in a different location. Will post pics when it budges.

 

[Don S]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

There is no way to spray anything on what is froze up with rust. You can't even get close to it. You MUST get the gear box off. I posted how I have done it. You may get lucky and pry it off, or you may use a truck to yank it off. BUT, DO NOT use rope, too much stretch and springback. Wrap some chain around it. After you get it off, find out what got torn up in the process.
Sorry, but your problem does not have an inexpensive fix.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

There is no way to spray anything on what is froze up with rust. You can't even get close to it. You MUST get the gear box off. I posted how I have done it. You may get lucky and pry it off, or you may use a truck to yank it off. BUT, DO NOT use rope, too much stretch and springback. Wrap some chain around it. After you get it off, find out what got torn up in the process.
Sorry, but your problem does not have an inexpensive fix.

Your right, after about 3 hours of struggling, beating it, pulling it, prying it, and even using a come-a-long. We decided to give up. Thinking about cutting the U-Joint, since it has to be replaced anyways and unbolt it from the upper gear box later. Can you or some one tell me why the bellhousing has to be removed to replace the bearings? I was in an arguement all day that the bellhousing had to be removed stating what was told to me, but could not explain why when asked. There idea, was that one was on the end of the shaft and the other can be removed when the shaft is removed.

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Flywheel housing needs to come off as the shaft and forward bearing are removed out the front (engine) side on a V6/V8 housing. Now you know

 

[captmello]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Cutting the ujoint sounds like a good alternative to tying it to the back of a truck. Like you said, the ujoint need replacing anyway. Just don't damage the yoke or the link between the two ujoints.

Once the upper is out of the way, you can pull the engine and flywheel cover assembly. I used a come-along and large oak tree to pull my engine. But that is a couple steps ahead of you right now.

Good luck with the upper.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Cutting the ujoint sounds like a good alternative to tying it to the back of a truck. Like you said, the ujoint need replacing anyway. Just don't damage the yoke or the link between the two ujoints.

Once the upper is out of the way, you can pull the engine and flywheel cover assembly. I used a come-along and large oak tree to pull my engine. But that is a couple steps ahead of you right now.

Good luck with the upper.

I got the Upper off by using a come along, pb blaster, a hammer and rebar stud to tap on the shaft with, and a long pipe for prying. The owner told me the bearings were making some noise when I bought this boat, but I started the boat on muffs and heard no noise at all. On one of the pics, in which you probably cannot see, there seem to be a small amount of grease that is on the outside of the bearing seal, I was told by a local, that if the boat was ran on muffs and had no noise and no noise while turning drive to left and right, that all I may have to do is re-grease the bearing from the opening of the seal where the shaft goes on to and put everything back with new bellows and I should be fine, since the everything looks good. Does this pic of the seal look bad to you, I asked him and he said it looked fine.

 

[captmello]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Can you move the shaft up and down, side to side?

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Wont budge at all. I tried hard, real hard. Its stiff as a bird. I was told while it was being ran on muffs, the shaft would of been spinning, and if the bearing were bad, that I would have been able to hear them. Can someone verify this?

 

[captmello]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Yes the shaft spins when running the motor. It sure looks rusty to me.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

The bellow let water into it, It was screwed. I was told to grease everything back up including the bearing, and remove the rust and everything should be good to go. I also was told that water could have not gotten onto the upper bearing because of the seals, and that with it being a new engine with less than 40hrs, that more than likely. those bearing had been replaced anyways. What do you think about the re-greasing?

 

[captmello]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

I would run it now and see how it sounds. It must be hooked up to water of course. The only way to grease the bearings is through the zerk on top of the flywheel cover inside the boat. Some didn't have the zerk.

You can do it any way you want. If you just put it together and run it, the bearings may last or they may fail and you'll be doing them anyway. If the bearings seize and spin in the flywheel cover, then you'll need a whole new flywheel cover. No play in the bearings is a good sign, but if they are now rusted, they will be making noise soon.

Now that you've got the upper of, it will be easy to do in the future. Grease the ujoint yoke and remove the upper annually for maintenance. Glad to here it finally came off.

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

I would at minumum remove and inspect them, but if your goin to all that work might as well replace 'em

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

I would run it now and see how it sounds. It must be hooked up to water of course. The only way to grease the bearings is through the zerk on top of the flywheel cover inside the boat. Some didn't have the zerk.

You can do it any way you want. If you just put it together and run it, the bearings may last or they may fail and you'll be doing them anyway. If the bearings seize and spin in the flywheel cover, then you'll need a whole new flywheel cover. No play in the bearings is a good sign, but if they are now rusted, they will be making noise soon.

Now that you've got the upper of, it will be easy to do in the future. Grease the ujoint yoke and remove the upper annually for maintenance. Glad to here it finally came off.

Yes, I am very pleased to have it off, as I literally ran around in circles. What kind of lubrication do I need for the bearings, and what will be the best for the ujoint and yoke or can the same lube be used as for the bearings, and will greasing through the zerk lubricate both bearings? Thanks

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Also, are you referring to me running the engine with the upper removed? I am not familiar with doing this. How can this be done, as I am only familiar with running on muffs. Also, is there a drain plug for the bellhousing just in case it got flooded with water. I understand that the zerk is for filling, but what is for draining and how do you check to see if water is inside?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

bearings are toast.
run her till she pukes and grin at what volvo charges for parts
when it pukes it typically takes out the coupler,he shaft and the housing.
that seal your looking at wont seal water out of the housing area, thats not what it was designed for.
thats what the bellows was designed for.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

bearings are toast.
run her till she pukes and grin at what volvo charges for parts
when it pukes it typically takes out the coupler,he shaft and the housing.
that seal your looking at wont seal water out of the housing area, thats not what it was designed for.
thats what the bellows was designed for.

Wouldn't they make a sound if they were toast? No sound at all and shaft is sturdy as a rock. I ran the motor on muffs as stated above and everything was smooth. I thought that the seal was to keep lube in, and if it is designed to keep lube in, then I thought it was to also keep things out, including water. Thats what I was thinking. If it can hold in oil, it can hold out water? I understand that about the bellows. Thanks

 

[captmello]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Also, are you referring to me running the engine with the upper removed? I am not familiar with doing this. How can this be done, as I am only familiar with running on muffs. Also, is there a drain plug for the bellhousing just in case it got flooded with water. I understand that the zerk is for filling, but what is for draining and how do you check to see if water is inside?

Yes, with the upper removed. Hook your hose to the intake hose in the engine compartment. Cover your outdrive so you don't get any water or debris in the internals. I'm really curious to see if the drive shaft is spinning or not. I suppose you could start by just turning over the engine with the starter and making sure the shaft is turning.

It's hard to believe the bearings could still be good...

The bearings are greased not oiled. The seals are to simply keep the grease from pushing into the bellows. There is no drain, if there is water in there, the new grease may push some of it out.

 

[ginyu6869]

Re: Upper Gear Box Lifted, But Wont Come Off

Yes, with the upper removed. Hook your hose to the intake hose in the engine compartment. Cover your outdrive so you don't get any water or debris in the internals. I'm really curious to see if the drive shaft is spinning or not. I suppose you could start by just turning over the engine with the starter and making sure the shaft is turning.

It's hard to believe the bearings could still be good...

The bearings are greased not oiled. The seals are to simply keep the grease from pushing into the bellows. There is no drain, if there is water in there, the new grease may push some of it out.

Im going to need some help with this one Cap. I have looked before and i cannot tell where i can hook up a hose to on the engine. I even search the service manual and could not find this before i ran it on muffs. Im going to take another pic of my engine and ask if you or someone dont mind to point it out. Also, will doing this cause any damage? I will get these pics posted.