USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

[Cptkid570]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

This is probably the last newspaper article I found on it. I did go to the Associated Press website and was able to find the 23-page Coast Guard report and I read through it... the newspaper article pretty much tells you everything you'd care to find in the report.


http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article984553.ece

 

[BWR1953]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

This is probably the last newspaper article I found on it. I did go to the Associated Press website and was able to find the 23-page Coast Guard report and I read through it... the newspaper article pretty much tells you everything you'd care to find in the report.


http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article984553.ece

Thank you for your efforts and for the link. A sad story for sure.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

Every time one of these accidents happens, I keep hoping for something positive to come out of it. Today, I think I might have seen just that.

I went out on a "mayday" SAR today. The call was heard on VHF by another boater, who couldn't be sure where it came from. I launched a little after sunrise and aside from a lunch break at a marina, was looking in my search area until about 6 this evening. I plotted the total course on Google Earth and found that I traveled 108 miles. During the course of those miles, I saw quite a few boats and talked to people aboard many of them.

To my surprise, many of the boaters were wearing PFDs. This is unusual in my area. More often than not, I will see PFDs someplace in the boat - not on the person. Today, I would say that at least 50 percent of the boaters that I saw, were actually wearing a PFD.

Now, if only I was as hard nosed with myself about sunblock, as I am about wearing my PFD! I am definately "crispy" at the moment!

 

[bowman316]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

I wonder if the anchor was still tied to the bow, or if they put in on the stern?

The rope may have been on the bow still, and tight from trying to pull the anchor up, and may have just pulled the bow down.

I wonder if they had a winch to pull up the rope, or were doing it by hand?

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

New info on story.
Stuck anchor. Tied anchor to stern cleat. Applied motor power. Sunk boat.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hS6PqL0gP6nqbWGEj4Eniq8hJeygD976FVS86

 

[bowman316]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

here is the thing, how would you know if gassing it out would be pulling it the right way. If the anchor is pulled towards the south , for instance, and catches a reef facing north, you have to pull the anchor north to get it out, pulling south will just get it stuck more. So there was no way to know which way is the right way to gas it out.

you just have to cut the rope, after reasonable trying to get it up

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

The Florida Fish and Wildlife has now released their report on the accident.

It can be read here:

http://www.myfwc.com/docs/Newsroom/FWC_ACISS_ BoatingAccidentInvestigativeReportFWSW_09_OFF.pdf

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

And this:

http://www.myfwc.com/docs/Newsroom/FWC_BoatingAccidentInvestigationFWSW_09_OFF_1335.pdf

 

[Nandy]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

This shows how any stupid little mistake can cost dearly. All of this for trying to save an anchor...

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

There are so many things about this incident that just make you shake your head. We've all seen it so much that I guess we should be used to it, but I feel like I never do.

Most of all, the decision to go so far out still astounds me. A person can certainly have a mishap anywhere on the water, but when you consider the exponential increase in required search area inside of a 50 mile radius versus a 5 mile radius, the real story in this tragedy become apparent. If these guys had stayed a reasonable distance offshore, all of them would have most likely lived, simply because it would have been so much easier to locate them.

 

[BWR1953]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

There are so many things about this incident that just make you shake your head. We've all seen it so much that I guess we should be used to it, but I feel like I never do.

Most of all, the decision to go so far out still astounds me. A person can certainly have a mishap anywhere on the water, but when you consider the exponential increase in required search area inside of a 50 mile radius versus a 5 mile radius, the real story in this tragedy become apparent. If these guys had stayed a reasonable distance offshore, all of them would have most likely lived, simply because it would have been so much easier to locate them.

I don't know what the Gulf is like where you are, but here in west central Florida, it is SHALLOW for many miles out. It's possible to go 20 - 30 miles into the Gulf and still be in 15' of water. If fishing for deepwater fish, it is sometimes necessary to travel that far.

A seasoned skipper with the correct boat and equipment aboard would have no problems venturing that far out. Note - "seasoned" skipper means just that and not some weekend warrior with little experience who got lucky on prior trips.

The sea, like Darwin, never sleeps.

-BWR

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

I am aware of the depth issue and the fact that many people in Florida go out that far. Seasoned or not, however, that is a very long way from shore.

I guess I wouldn't get too excited by folks going out in pairs or groups in some cases, but to go 50+ miles offshore in a single, 21 foot boat is folly. There is just too much that can go wrong. In this case, the accident was the result of a bad decision, but it could have as easily been something else. This boat swamped and turtled, because of the anchor situation. A rouge wave could have done the same thing. An engine failure could have stranded them. Hitting something in the water could have ejected the passengers. The list goes on and on.

Also, the fact that the water in the area is so shallow, is one of the main reasons why going so far offshore is dangerous. Shallow water produces very dangerous wave conditions in even moderate winds. When it does, the further offshore you are, the greater the difficulty in returning to safe harbor. I hear you about Darwin, but I think we need to worry a bit more about Neptune, because Neptune could care less about someone's $50,000 "unsinkable" boat.

Most of all, being so far out reduces the chances of getting help by an huge margin. There isn't likely to be anyone nearby and, as I mentioned before, the task of finding either a small boat or a person in the water, is much harder. Its harder largely, because of the sheer size of the area that must be searched. As was true in this case, by the time you find something as a responding agency or person, it is often either partially or completely "too late."

I have no delusion about the fact that this accident isn't going to keep people from going so far out in small boats. I do hope folks wize up a bit, though. At a mininimum, they should go in pairs of boats or groups of boats. They should also have an EPIRB aboard. While expensive, this one piece of equipment could have made all the difference in the world in this case.

 

[BWR1953]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

A seasoned skipper?

?wouldn?t have gone out at all because of the weather conditions. (One of our own members was wise enough to turn back on that very day because of the rough water.)

?wouldn?t go that far out without an EPIRB

?wouldn?t? go so far with just a single engine.

?wouldn?t have agreed with a passenger that tying off the anchor to the stern cleat was a good idea under those conditions.

?wouldn?t have risked all the souls on board over an anchor that could be replaced for twenty bucks on craigslist.

There are many other such examples already stated in this thread by other members.

This sad tale isn?t about shallow water and long distances being dangerous.

It?s about the folly of being ill-prepared or so egotistical as to think that something bad cannot possibly happen to you.

YMMV

 

[triumphrick]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

A seasoned skipper?

?wouldn?t have gone out at all because of the weather conditions. (One of our own members was wise enough to turn back on that very day because of the rough water.)

?wouldn?t go that far out without an EPIRB

?wouldn?t? go so far with just a single engine.

?wouldn?t have agreed with a passenger that tying off the anchor to the stern cleat was a good idea under those conditions.

?wouldn?t have risked all the souls on board over an anchor that could be replaced for twenty bucks on craigslist.

There are many other such examples already stated in this thread by other members.

This sad tale isn?t about shallow water and long distances being dangerous.

It?s about the folly of being ill-prepared or so egotistical as to think that something bad cannot possibly happen to you.

YMMV

Also, and the most important for me....NO WORKING RADIO....I run my 20' KW 32 miles due west of Bayport, Fl to get to one really good hole. I plan that trip for a couple of days. Everything is checked and double checked. Most importantly I MAINTAIN radio contact with BoatUS, my tow service. It was noted the guys relied upon cell phones..??

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

Just out of curiosity, do you guys ever team up with one or more other boats, when you run so far offshore?

 

[triumphrick]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

Just out of curiosity, do you guys ever team up with one or more other boats, when you run so far offshore?

I usually fish during the week. So far we haven't. I don't always venture that far, but I know this boat inside and out. Fixed radio & portable radio. Fixed gps & portable gps. Just got a ditch bag and epirb. Am looking for an inflatable. I have fished this coast of Florida since 1955. I am cautious, and have a healthy fear and respect for the seas.
I leave co-ordinates behind with a family member. A float plan if you will. Electrically, mechanically my boat gives me much confidence. I keep backup hoses, clamps, fitting and a full mechanics tool bag with test meter and I know how to use it.
I have fished here with others on this forum, aboard my boat and was complimented on my abilities. I truly feel as though I take nothing for granted.
I have a disabled daughter who suffers from a brain injury suffered in a car accident years ago. She loves to fish and does well, however I would never think of taking her with me to those distances. Some of my buddies and my wife, yes.
I also mentioned early on in this post about launching the same day at the same ramp those guys did. We sea trialed a boat my neighbor ended up buying. I am rerigging it for him now. When we turned from the intercoastal into the gulf I knew right away those seas and 20-25 knot winds could cause us trouble and we continued the trial inside protected waters.
I prepare so as to never make the mistakes they did that got them into their predicament...

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

I wonder if the anchor was still tied to the bow, or if they put in on the stern?

The rope may have been on the bow still, and tight from trying to pull the anchor up, and may have just pulled the bow down.

I wonder if they had a winch to pull up the rope, or were doing it by hand?

I was reading today that they had intentionally moved the anchor line to the stern trying to free the anchor. Prop dug in, stern dropped, water rushed in, boat flipped. Inexperience was a large part of the final diagnosis.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

Just out of curiosity, do you guys ever team up with one or more other boats, when you run so far offshore?

Been out many times in the Gulf and Atlantic in small boats, mostly just one boat. Some dual engines, some single. 17 to 28 feet long. Prepared as much as possible; wore life jackets at all times. Watched the weather constantly, portable and fixed VHF. Had a boating family, and much training from "old salts" throughout life. No drinking (alcohol) allowed. Would definitely have an EPIRB now if I went offshore (stuck in N. Texas now). Tried to prepare and minimize the danger, but we can't eliminate it. I wouldn't ever leave home if absolute safety were a criteria, because it doesn't exist. I think we scare easier now than we used to. I mean, really, how many of us modern folks would pack up our stuff in a wagon and go on an (often fatal) trip across the wilderness to settle wild, hostile country as part of a dream? Or who would actually pack up on a leaky boat called the Mayflower to sail to an unknown continent?
Sorry for the Ramble.....the Scotch is kickin' in.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

I'm in agreement on some of the "seasoned boaters would not have" items, and I certainly agree that alot of things that we now take for granted, would not have happened without risk taking.

That said, I have a pretty hard time comparing a quest for a new world or a new life, with catching a few fish. Furthermore, it isn't even necessary in this age to take such chances for those few fish - there are plenty of other ways to fish with more safety. Buddying up with another boat would certainly be one of those ways. Joining friends to split the cost of a better suited charter boat would be another.

I guess I react the way I do to these issues, because I have spent a significant amount of time engaged in SAR operations. To put it bluntly, when you involve yourself in recovering dead people enough times, you really wonder what possesses people to do things like run 50 - 70 miles offshore in a 20 foot, center console boat. To me, a truly seasoned boater just wouldn't do it at all.

To each his own, I guess.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: USCG Searching For Missing Football Players

here is the thing, how would you know if gassing it out would be pulling it the right way. If the anchor is pulled towards the south , for instance, and catches a reef facing north, you have to pull the anchor north to get it out, pulling south will just get it stuck more. So there was no way to know which way is the right way to gas it out.

you just have to cut the rope, after reasonable trying to get it up

I've had the anchor hopelessly stuck several times and powered it out. Tied off to a stern cleat and drove circles until it popped free, just don't apply too much power where you could rip a cleat.

Would I do this in heavy seas, nope, for the reasons on this tragedy. You are tied to the bottom of the ocean/lake/river and pulling the stern lower.