Vindicator will not power up!

[Tolliwacker]

First off, I am new here, but not new to mechanics but I am NO 2 stroke wiz.

I have a 1997 Evinrude Vindicator 200HP
Serial Number GO433907-72
Model Number E200 STLE (If I read this right)
IMP 18-30-59 (I assume the prop?)

Anyways the boat has been flawless over the past 3 years, and I flush it after every salt water excursion, and I winterize it with Sta-bil in the fuel and drain and flush everything, but I took the boat out this Saturday and it Fired off nicely, and I ran it with the Hose in the yard before heading to the bay and all seemed OK. I get to the bay and the boat has NO POWER! Will not go above 3000 rpm's and will not pull a sick ***** out of bed. The engine skips a tad at idle, so I am leaning to the fuel system. I fueled up with fresh fuel in Late October with Sta-bil and ran the fuel through the system like I have done years past, so any ideas?

I have removed the plugs and checked them, the power head is warm to the touch, not hot. Do you think this is a fuel issue or ignition?

Thanks for any help in advance,
John

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

OK, I did the plugs, and the fuel system filters and it seems to run pretty well.
I am taking it to the lake to see how she does under power with a load.

Still open to suggestions......................or is there anything specific about this engine I should know?

 

[daselbee]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

I personally think it is a great engine. Very easy to work on, simple carbs, simple ignition, and I have heard that this 90* V6 Looper is agruably one of the best Evinrude ever made.

I think you have some gunk in the carbs. To check this, on the front of each carb bowl is a slotted brass drain screw. Just for grins, take that screw out, and with a properly sized screwdriver carefully remove the high speed jet which is behind the brass drain screw.
You need a properly sized screwdriver, one that will span completely across the slot in the jet, and still not scrape the threads on the sides of the hole.
You can check all six, or just opt to do a clean/rebuild job from the getgo.
If you have gunk there, you will have it elsewhere. It just gives you a quick indication of whether the carbs are really gunked or not.

To do the job properly, get 6 carb kits, remove carbs one at a time, and clean thoroughly all passages, remove jets and clean with stranded wire, blow thru with air, DO NOT USE a carb cleaner or solvent that will eat plastic, re-assemble and run it. If you are very careful and look closely, you will see where one or more carbs are gunked up. They are really very simple.
There are a bunch of posts on here about carb cleaning. Just remember you have plastic carbs!!! No acetone, no laquer thinner, no commercial carb cleaners....

If you continue to run it with dirty carbs, it will be running lean on the affected cylinders, and it can/will burn the pistons. Been there, done that!

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

After posting this, I see this is the BUSY time of the year for all the questions of when boats come out of hibernation and not running right!

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Daselbee,
I see where you posted, THANKS! I know my way around carbs, I work on them all the time, just not these so thanks for the tip and pointers to go digging. I did not see your post till now, weird since I posted below yours!
I have the tools, and the knowhow, just need alittle guidence and pointers like you stated. I will go looking for the clogged carb, I hope I find it that easy!

OK, Just got back from the lake.

I did not even bother to disconnect the boat from the trailer, just backed it in and fired it up and let it warm and poured the coals to it, STILL NOTHING!!
So I will check the carbs now I have a starting point and will post what I find.

Man this site gets alot of attention, it took me to page 4 to get to my post from yesterday afternoon, this place has some business!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Toli, Normally we would ask you to do a compression test, check to see that all plugs have spark and report on the color of the plugs.

Your issue could be low compression, bad ignition stator or some other component or dirty carbs. We need to eliminate these one by one.

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

OK, Just cleaned the carbs, and MAN were they CLEAN!! And SIMPLE! I know it seems I work fast, well I do and I am trying to find this problem.

Chris, I will do a compression check, but just for info, I have removed the plugs and all seem fine and appear to be uniform and all firing the same. Now that said, it does not rule out the bad stator, but it Idle fine, and runs all RPM's with NO Load, but put it in the water and 2800 RPM's at best, so power is DOWN.

OK, Now to the compression check.....................

 

[daselbee]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Good to hear they were clean from the start. And you are right...SIMPLE.

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

OK, Compression check is done and all cylinders are pretty even across the board. I could not find my Compression gauge, so I improvised with a Pressure gauge and some good OL Rubber tape left over from the Aircraft biz days... anywhoo, the gauge read pretty close across the board, I even left it loose to see if it read lower and it did, but I cannot give a correct number of what I found, since tthis is an improvised test.

I will say that the engine sounds just as it did last year, and Idles just as it did last year, it just will not go to high RPM's. I checkeed the linkage to ensure it is going full travel.

There is not by chance a governor like on an old 8N Ford Tractor is there?
I inherited a 8N and found it was not up to full throttle and found the governor out of Adjustment now it runs like it has another gear!

Just checking.........Awaiting responses......

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Good to hear they were clean from the start. And you are right...SIMPLE.

Those are some Honkin BIG Jets to have six individual carbs and High speed jets! No wonder this thing drinks the fuel!

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

So does anyone think it may be bad FUEL?

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Also does anyone know EXACTLY How many fuel filters there are, and where they are located?

I have one in the oil tank compartment that is a spin on fuel water seperator, and I found the little white on on the engine right side just before the fuwel pump.

Am I missing any?

 

[daselbee]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

The engine came with only the small white fuel filter near the fuel pump.
The water sep. was added by someone else. That's not clogged, and you don't have water in the fuel, right? Try bypassing the water sep. for testing purposes.

What does the primer bulb do while you are trying to run WOT? Can you pump it and cause the engine to pick up and go?
On the same lines, when it boggs, press the key in to activate the primer solenoid. It will get more gas and may pick up from that.

Do you think there are any air leaks in the fuel line from the tank to the engine? Regarding the fuel pump, it is a VRO2, but has it been modified to eliminate the oil injection function? In other words, you have a functional oil tank...???

Regarding the governor question, no governor. But it does have a S.L.O.W. system that kicks in at 2500 rpm if the engine overheats. It is a function of the temp sensors and the powerpack. The engine will not rev above 2500, and it will "shake real bad".

If you get a "Check engine" light on the tach when this bogg happens, that would indicate a higher than allowed vacuum in the fuel inlet side of the pump...

I am trying to list possible fuel related issues here...I am still thinking fuel...

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

I am thinking fuel as well since I have ran through EVERYTHING else. I went through all the wiring connections and found corrosion on the connectors of 3 of the wires that feed the coils the power, but I do not know if it was enough to cause the problem?

I have not tried to squeeze the buld at WOT, and I will do the key primer solinoid next time as well.

This Boat still has the oil injection hooked up, and it was functioning well last season, and I can only assume it is functioning this year as well, none of the check engine, low oil, no oil or the Hot light illuminate, but they all run the check circuit fine at start up! Last season the low oil light came on to remind me to add the oil to the tank after a LONG week of boating, so it was working.

The Boat was filled up with Sta-bil added at the end of the season, and the boat is stored under a carport. Now that is not to say I did not get a batch of bad fuel, but I filled up at my regular place, and NEVER had a bad tank of fuel from them, and I am anal about fuel, I own a diesel truck as well.

I do not see anything that would indicate air getting into the fuel system, but I will btpass the fuel water seperator just to eliminate that item.

Keep the ideas coming!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

did you here about this? http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=291501 if you want to come, just send me PM. with how many.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

i believe you have low, mid and high speed jets, did you remove them all and clean them. diagram, http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bf6ad09c53cead335fcfd8a6471c0f7f you have #12 , 14, 15. #12 is the adjustable, air mixture.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

The Boat was filled up with Sta-bil added at the end of the season, and the boat is stored under a carport. Now that is not to say I did not get a batch of bad fuel, but I filled up at my regular place, and NEVER had a bad tank of fuel from them, and I am anal about fuel, I own a diesel truck as well.

I have a 200HP Ocean Pro. Same years as your motor.

It's been running well. Stopped to top off at the usual place (never had a bad gas either) on the way back from fishing last Saturday. Went back out fishing on Sunday and made it about 5 miles down Bay when the RPM dropped off and it stalled. It fired right back up but died when you hit the throttle.

Luckily have a Racor fuel filter with the drain on the bottom. Drained out 2- 16 oz. Coke bottles of phase separated alcohol and water before I got something that even remotely looked like gasoline. Drained the carbs and the fuel lines between the fuel pump and carbs the best I could and limped the 5 miles back to the dock.

Took it home and drained almost 1 1/2 gallons of phase separated material off the bottom of the tank courtesy of E-10 and my local fuel supplier.

My suggestion to first eliminate the possibility of bad gas. I have a 2- gallon gas can and the hose with a primer bulb that I use to decarb the motor. I remove the fuel line at the intake of the fuel pump and replace it with the hose running into my 2 gallon can.

Mix up some premix and see how the motor runs off a known fresh fuel and oil. If it runs good you have a fuel problem. If not, you have at least removed contaminated fuel from the equation

 

[daselbee]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

Yeah dingbat!!!! Very likely...What does this phase separated alcohol and water look like?
My water sep has a transparent bowl, so I want to know what to look for...

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

I do not have the clear bowl on the bottom of the filter, but I will eliminate the fuel altogether with a remote fuel tank like stated above.

If I just unhook the fuel line from the pump, and hook up there I should be able to run straight fuel and not have to premix correct?
Or is the mixing of the fuel/oil taking place someplace other than the engine?
It appears I have seperate lines running to the pump on the side of the engine.

And yes, in answer to tashasdaddy, I removed the carbs, and Completly dissassembled and cleaned and blwe through everything, I was amazed at just how clean the carbs were! I am a Motorcycle/Tractor/Lawnmower fix it guy around here, I have seen my fair share of bad gas, usually just clean the carb and replace fuel and go for most folks here, but I just have not seen anything indicating trash or bad fuel, but I am eliminating it.

What about the wires to the coils, do you think that might play a part?

This boat sees salt as well as freash water trips.

 

[Tolliwacker]

Re: Vindicator will not power up!

did you here about this? http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=291501 if you want to come, just send me PM. with how many.

PM Sent, sorry will not be able to make it, in-laws on the way