W & Rummy helped

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

your remarks best illustrate my post regarding my opinion (yes we all have one) of you level of intellectual remarks.

For a "smart" guy, you sure don't learn very fast....8)

 

[JB]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Like statistics, anyone can cherrypick facts to support his point of view. Add a few myths, a bit of exaggeration and name calling and you can sound like a genius.

If misspelling, punctuation errors or grammatical errors make a statement of point of view automatically without merit I guess we are all a bunch of misguided idiots.

 

[QC]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Interesting that txswinner has totally ignored the excellent mathematical points made by Tail_Gunner. This leads me to ask, are you truly concerned about Iraqis txs? Or are you concerned about our soldiers? If you answer soldiers, how about this mathematical fact.

"The fact is that we are not experiencing casualty rates anywhere near past conflicts, nor for that matter as bad as during peacetime. There were weeks in Vietnam when 350-400 Americans died, and in other wars thousands would die in single battles. Nothing like that is happening now.
From 1983 to 1996, more than 18,000 soldiers died. That averages to more than 1,300 a year, far more than have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan each year."

'Wonderful time to be a soldier'


Soooo, with that said, what is it that you are really against txs? Fewer Iraqis dying or fewer American soldiers dying, or maybe it is both . . .

I am gonna qualify all of this because I expect you will simply ignore the information in the link I posted. Yes, what is missing is that many of the peacetime accidents still occur in the US while we have brave men dying to protect our freedoms. But the point is still that the death rates in Iraq are comparably EXTREMELY LOW!!!!! So what is it that Rummy got wrong? The level of resistance? Hindsight means nothing to me. The strength and endurance of the insurgents? Hindsight means nothing to me. Aaaaannnnnnd, the fact that there are so many evil individuals prepared to kill fellow countrymen tells me that that f-ed up place and the world need this purge.

 

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

If misspelling, punctuation errors or grammatical errors make a statement of point of view automatically without merit I guess we are all a bunch of misguided idiots.

If someone (no name, but we all know who) accuses others of only having a third grade education while bragging about his 20 years of education, one shouldn't be surprised if people take offence... just my un-educated 2 cents.

 

[ob]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Well if that statement or point of view is specifically and repetitively intended to allege stupidity or intellectual oversight on a given person,in this case Bush or Rumsfeld,I respectfully disagree.
Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

 

[QC]

Re: W & Rummy helped

LOL at my timing after JB's "Like statistics, anyone can cherrypick facts to support his point of view". I hadn't seen it . . . 8)

 

[Plainsman]

Re: W & Rummy helped

If misspelling, punctuation errors or grammatical errors make a statement of point of view automatically without merit I guess we are all a bunch of misguided idiots.

I resemble that remark d

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Like statistics, anyone can cherrypick facts to support his point of view. Add a few myths, a bit of exaggeration and name calling and you can sound like a genius.

If misspelling, punctuation errors or grammatical errors make a statement of point of view automatically without merit I guess we are all a bunch of misguided idiots.

A point very well made, after a great deal of thought i can only wonder why the media complex could not have gathered such readliy avaible statistic's and articulated them with stunning reasoning and clarity

 

[txswinner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

As always statistics can be misleading. The numbers killed in Iraq do not mean no soldiers die in this country in accidents, training etc.

If what you say is correct then should I presume it is safer to be a soldier in Iraq than back in the ole USA. I am sure someone can show us statistically but I am not buying that arguement.

Who do I hate seeing die. The American soldiers and the innocent people being killed in Iraq. We may not be able to stop the killing in Iraq but we can surely reduce the Americans dying there.

By the way any of you still interested in Osama or have you forgotten about him.

Numbers you ask to be addressed mean little to nothing as we do not know the basis of the input. You know, just like a computer, crap in crap out.

BRING HOME THE TROOPS

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Like statistics, anyone can cherrypick facts to support his point of view. Add a few myths, a bit of exaggeration and name calling and you can sound like a genius.

If misspelling, punctuation errors or grammatical errors make a statement of point of view automatically without merit I guess we are all a bunch of misguided idiots.

A point very well made, after a great deal of thought i can only wonder why the media complex could not have gathered such readliy avaible statistic's and articulated them with stunning reasoning and clarity.

It seem's they choose not to.............

Actually ill refer to back to 911..............3000 American lives were lost, innocent lives, how many children, how many wives, how many brother's, how many sister's, how many mother's,how many father's, how many freind's, It's a almost endless list and the total scope of the ramification's probably defy one person's comprehesion...........it's much eaiser to black out and get on with life But that is the under lying cause.

If you believe that a ideal (that is terrisom) can attack another ideal (Freedom and equality) on it's home ground and there is no price to pay, I for one do not have a answer for you.

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

...
I am gonna qualify all of this because I expect you will simply ignore the information in the link I posted. ...

hold on, QC, the link you posted was an op-ed piece - by definition an opinion - hardly a credible enough source to hang your hat on. An especially irresponsible use of a statistical "fact" (and I use that word loosely).

Arbitrarily picking a 13-year time period that yields an answer supporting your position completely strips it of any statistical significance whatsoever.

Then compare U.S. military mortality worldwide from any cause to a specific conflict in a specific region?

Frankly I'm surprised that a person of your intelligence and education would even attempt to convince anyone that there's a conclusion to be drawn from the "data" presented.

Seems as though you were really counting on people to "ignore the information" (and you used that word lightly) in your link.

 

[CJY]

Re: W & Rummy helped

"By the way any of you still interested in Osama or have you forgotten about him."


"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." GWB—Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." GWB—Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002


Two very, very opposing statements made 6 months apart. I have always said OBL should have been and should continue to be priority #1, until he is dead and we have his head on a platter.

 

[JB]

Re: W & Rummy helped

I will pick a nit, there, TG.

The people killed in the 9/11/01 attacks represented 54 (I think) nationalities.

An example of how a cherry picked fact can make a valid point seem less valid.

 

[QC]

Re: W & Rummy helped

jtex,

I may have been careless with the word fact, but let me clear a few things up for you. I know what an op-ed is. I assumed the "arbitrary" time period was pre-GWB and peacetime. I did a search when I had the thought via Google for peacetime military deaths and came up with a number of similar claims and statistics. I picked that one for some reason, but you your ownslef can find many more:

Another peacetime death rate comparison op-ed piece

Although I understand your challenge and agree I was careless, I stand by the general message that I intended: that was that the ongoing claim that we must leave Iraq due to the deaths of our fine soldiers, although tragic, needs to be understood within the context of peacetime death rates as well. Simply being in the Military is dangerous, and yes using our Military is also dangerous, but the relative death rates in Iraq as compared to other conflicts is extremely low and does not exceed peacetime death rates by much. I cannot define "much" as I used it, because I simply made it up . . . 8)

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

...
I am gonna qualify all of this because I expect you will simply ignore the information in the link I posted. ...

hold on, QC, the link you posted was an op-ed piece - by definition an opinion - hardly a credible enough source to hang your hat on. An especially irresponsible use of a statistical "fact" (and I use that word loosely).

Arbitrarily picking a 13-year time period that yields an answer supporting your position completely strips it of any statistical significance whatsoever.

Then compare U.S. military mortality worldwide from any cause to a specific conflict in a specific region?

Frankly I'm surprised that a person of your intelligence and education would even attempt to convince anyone that there's a conclusion to be drawn from the "data" presented.

Seems as though you were really counting on people to "ignore the information" (and you used that word lightly) in your link.

Whill ill be a Sons of Bit@@ we have a scholar in our midst's.......... Plzz for a clear edification show the way to post such a claim,

I cannot wait my freind, i cannot wait and personally, i for one believe you will not.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

I will pick a nit, there, TG.

The people killed in the 9/11/01 attacks represented 54 (I think) nationalities.

An example of how a cherry picked fact can make a valid point seem less valid.

Elaborate plz. i wish to understandz.........8)

Ask me to............ and i will glady respond........I've been waiting.........o

Ummm i believe i asked first, so in true step of gentlemanship, i will ask you to elaborate on your reasoning, and then if you wish i will expanz on me own......8)

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Are we really debating military mortality rates here? Is there really a "casualty threshold" which some think we've reached, and others believe we haven't?

 

[treedancer]

Re: W & Rummy helped



Hers some cherry picked statistics I thought I would throw into the mix.

Wonderful time to be a American solder, not so wonderful time to be citizen of Iraq.

Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000

The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at (Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health). The findings are being published online today by the (British medical journal the Lancet).

Lets do a little math on this stat, shall we. (655000 divided by 1,347 days =486 per day.)Pretty grim isn’t it.


A few more stats for anyone interested.
Poll conducted by the University of Maryland:

71% of all Iraqis now want the U.S. out of Iraq.

61% of all Iraqis SUPPORT insurgent attacks on U.S. troops.

At first We went into Iraq to get the WMDS didn’t we,"Oops "that turned out to be Bum scoop. Then decided that we went in Iraq to bring democracy to Iraq.Well that almost Qualifies for another "OoPs" Doesn’t it ?

Kinda make you wonder who in that country came and "ask us to liberate them from Saddam". It seems to me that is the way it should be, that the librated would at least try to liberate themselves, are at least ask for some help. Sure didn’t see any reports about anyone asking for any of our help.

Can’t think of a country that had a foreign power come in unasked, and overthrew their tyrant and said here have some Democracy? Maybe I just don’t get it, I don’t know.

Can anybody here think of a suicide bomber that tried to blow up any of Saddams palaces? Can’t say as I’ve heard any reports, but of course he was rather secretive.

Seems that there are plenty trying to blowAmericans, Iraqis, or just any body that looks like they may not agree with their idea of religion. Damn fools just cant get the hang of Democracy can they?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Are we really debating military mortality rates here? Is there really a "casualty threshold" which some think we've reached, and others believe we haven't?

Ohhh come on, you have made a critical observation, perhap's founded, and perhaps not.

Elborate plz on my original question if you will or can. I for one think you cannot.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Hers some cherry picked statistics I thought I would throw into the mix.

Wonderful time to be a American solder, not so wonderful time to be citizen of Iraq.

Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000

The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at (Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health). The findings are being published online today by the (British medical journal the Lancet).

Lets do a little math on this stat, shall we. (655000 divided by 1,347 days =486 per day.)Pretty grim isn’t it.


A few more stats for anyone interested.
Poll conducted by the University of Maryland:

71% of all Iraqis now want the U.S. out of Iraq.

61% of all Iraqis SUPPORT insurgent attacks on U.S. troops.

At first We went into Iraq to get the WMDS didn’t we,"Oops "that turned out to be Bum scoop. Then decided that we went in Iraq to bring democracy to Iraq.Well that almost Qualifies for another "OoPs" Doesn’t it ?

Kinda make you wonder who in that country came and "ask us to liberate them from Saddam". It seems to me that is the way it should be, that the librated would at least try to liberate themselves, are at least ask for some help. Sure didn’t see any reports about anyone asking for any of our help.

Can’t think of a country that had a foreign power come in unasked, and overthrew their tyrant and said here have some Democracy? Maybe I just don’t get it, I don’t know.

Can anybody here think of a suicide bomber that tried to blow up any of Saddams palaces? Can’t say as I’ve heard any reports, but of course he was rather secretive.

Seems that there are plenty trying to blowAmericans, Iraqis, or just any body that looks like they may not agree with their idea of religion. Damn fools just cant get the hang of Democracy can they?

Game's on Tree dancer, the game is on

Ohhh this suck's but i do believe he's a american so i will ask this, Those statement's do include the Kurdish populaton.and i am not even going into the religous sect, i am going to defend america, that is my dog in the fight.......... so you know my Agenda.