Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

[scipper77]

I've been working through an old johnson 9.5 off and on as time permits for the last couple of weeks. While I was setting the points and checking the spark the other day I noticed what seemed like black water coating the threads on the lower spark plug hole. Water??

I have 70 psi of compression on both cylinders.

What do you guys think I should do?

 

[oldcatamount]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

That's likely unburied fuel/oil. Your new points (and plugs) will probably cure that.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

I had both plugs out and was turning the flywheel with a rope repeatedly as I adjusted the gap on my spark tester. My question is, why only the bottom cylinder with the black fluid at the threads?

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Possibility- Extra fuel may of drained from top crankcase via middle bearing/seal to add to bottom crankcase pool but the bottom seal has stopped it draining further...

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

My sense of pride is fighting with my cheapness on this motor. Head gasket is only $20 weather it needs it or not. The fight comes with where to stop. Every part for this motor is $10-20. Because it's a new to me motor I could easily do points, coils, plugs, wires, head gasket, carb kit and impeller.

When I add all that up I start thinking The other way...
Impeller if tell tale is weak.....
...spark is borderline on gap checker, jumps large gap but not every time. This is checked with motor running on one cylinder while checking spark on other...
...head gasket will show up on the water and I have both oars and a trolling motor.
...carb kit is the one thing I feel like there is no way to troubleshoot because I have no experience with this motor to know if it is lacking power. BUT, because I am cheap I will probably take the carb apart, clean with compressed air and "try" to reassemble before I give in and just buy the right kit.

I guess I'm just ranting about nothing at this point!?!?
Thanks for listening.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

I took the motor on the water for a sea trial and it started with no issues but died after 10-15 seconds. I figured it was my new fuel tank and primer ball/line. after wasting several hours going through things (polish points, fuel pump/filter, carb apart, two tanks and lines tested in every way conceivable, and spark gap test) I still couldn't get the motor to start. Last check was another compression test. I tested the upper cylinder at just a hair under 70#. When I tested the upper I could see spray coming out of the hole for the lower. When I tested the lower I was at 150# which I higher than this motor should have seen even brand new. It also filled my compression tester with water because I let it hang down as I pulled and gravity pulled the water into the gauge

what would cause this scenario?? Head gasket? Warped head? Thermostat ??

Tomorrow I plan on pulling the head unless I get advice here telling to check something else first.

 

[Cap'n Chaos]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

I'm no expert but I'd think the exhaust gaskets...

 

[JDusza]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

+1.
Exhaust cover(s)' gaskets on the power head. Exhaust housing to power head, underneath the power head.
Just did this on an Evinrude 2 hp. Ran on the rack, not in the barrel; the gasket between the power head and the exhaust housing was shot.

 

[BoatingCop]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

I had this issue with my '83 9.9hp. The lower cylinder was getting water in it but not the top. After about 30 seconds of running it would bog down and die. Pulled the head off, and low and behold it was the head gasket. Replaced it and now it's as good as new.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

How hard is the exhaust cover gasket to get to?

 

[JDusza]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Not hard to get to. Usually on the side of the block. What's your model number? We can get you to an exploded view.
Risk is shearing the bolts when removing due to age and corrosion.....then you're into drill and taps-ville.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Mine is a '72 long shaft. I have already looked at the exploded parts diagram but I was not sure if I was going to have to pull the powerhead to get at the gasket.

 

[JDusza]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Check.
Look at an exploded view for Cylinder and Crankcase; gaskets are items #25, #30, #32.
Exhaust housing to power head is shown in view for Exhaust Housing, item #39.
Good luck!
J

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

At this point I will start with the head gasket, if it is bad I will replace it after making sure the head isn't warped. If Good I will continue to tear into the motor until I find the problem. It's looking like $47 plus tax and shipping if I have to replace all of the gaskets. Add the cost of some sand paper of I have to deck the head.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

so why do you guys feel that my issue is with the exhaust side over the head?? I'm just trying to understand what is going on as opposed to just blindly fixing things.

Is it because a bad head gasket would not allow me to get good compression numbers??

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Bump,

I really want to know what about my situation pointed towards exhaust gasket. I am replacing everything, I just want to understand better how that diagnosis was reached?

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

so why do you guys feel that my issue is with the exhaust side over the head?? I'm just trying to understand what is going on as opposed to just blindly fixing things.

Is it because a bad head gasket would not allow me to get good compression numbers??

Yes.
And the exhaust gasket may of gone too explaining the water in bottom cyl yet good compression numbers. The water in there, reduced the compression cavity thus increasing compression

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Thank you for the response.

Today I went to go pull the rope just to keep the rings from rusting due to water in the combustion chamber and the thing tried to start!! I was pulling the rope super slow with the throttle in the wrong position for starting. I guess that the water drained out of the lower while it sat and now it wants to start! I'm pretty sure that this motor will be a strong runner after I get this last issue ironed out.

I was looking at the motor and I am not sure how hard it is going to be to pull the exhaust covers. Do I have to pull the whole power head?? It looks like if I remove the starter I just might be able to get at all of the bolts? If I need to pull the power head someone just tell me now so I won't waste a bunch of time trying to see if I can figure out how to do it another way!

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

Well it seems the power head needs to come off OR if the lower shroud can be split I could also access the bolts.

For powerhead removal it looks to me like the procedure would be
Drop the lower
Remove carb connections and throttle linkage
Remove motor mount bolts
Pull

Is this right for a Johnson 9.5??

I just found this thread. http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/removing-power-head-71-9-5hp-johnson-187761.html
The only problem here is that I need to get the port side shroud off.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Water in my lower cylinder?? Johnson 9.5

I got everything apart. Sure enough you guys were right on the money. Bad exhaust cover gasket. Let me etell you, seperating the halves of the cowl and pulling the power head and lower was fairly involved. Reassembly should be fun.

Time to order the three gaskets for the exhaust covers, a new impellar, maybe a headgasket that I don't need (yet), and maybe a carb kit just because shipping stays the same as I order more things.

I can't thank the guys here enough. I am sure I will be back asking more questions when its time to reassemble.