What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

[tommays]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

I have replaced all my appliances with engerystar ones as they needed to be replaced which has made a BIG difference

I have done a lot of bicycle commuting of up to 30 miles a day BUT haveing been hit buy two cars over the years its lost its charm

And one BIG problem with it is it cost more in FOOD than it does in gas to ride 30 miles


Tommays

 

[Ron G]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

i got ya'll beat on this one,at work i know have a 48 volt carry all 2 golf cart with a tilt bed ladder rack and tool boxdwe have are changing light bulbs to flurosents in all our units and im in charge of saving at least 15% on energy in the new chapel im sick of green and that cart is going to freeze my arse off this winter.but im saving the world one light bulb at a timedand after doing all this i tell them i run my boat wot burn gas and love it and i also drive a bronco at times so bring on the light bulbs.but in all seriousness if thats a word every little bit does help im not a tree hugger by know means but i am a little more consous now of some the little stuff.

 

[Mr.Ladyfish]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

I'm wearing a green shirt!8)

 

[Boomyal]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

.Now, without being facetious:

I leave the windows open all night to cool the house.

I close the windows before it gets hot during the day.

Keep window shades (r-3) closed against the sun.


dress accordingly.

I haven't run the air or heat for 6 months.

I don't expect to run it much more
over the winter when it gets down to a chilling 60 degrees.... F

What can I say?.... I live in the right part of the world. 8)

Yeah you can brag about that CBC, livin' down in Oregon's Banana Belt.

You must be one of those ex-Californians who just snuck over the border and thought he wouldn't be noticed by the true palefaced, webfooted, left leaning, granola crunching, weed friendly, latte swilling, died-in-the-wool OREGONIANS.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Nuclear energy is the answer to most of the USA's problems.

Hopefully the greenies will figure this FACT out instead of going by their feelings.

Ken

 

[QC]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

KIZ has nailed this one . . .

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Funny how people get all sarcastic and defensive when asked a question like this one.

The nuclear power plant that I visited before it opened when I was in third grade, didn't even make it 25 years before it was so falling apart that the company running it shut it down for good. They just demo'd the cooling tower this spring. This was supposed to be making power that would be "too cheap to meter" and last for decades. Well, the spent fuel, stored right next to the river, will certainly last for many, many decades anyway. So tell me how this technology is supposed to solve all of America's energy problems?

I know that Rush and the Republicans are into nukes of all kinds, but I sure would like to see the math on this one, guys. And don't forget to include the cost of dealing with the spent fuel, and all the ongoing breakdowns and offline time. My local plant spent most of the last two or three years before it's shutdown being taken offline for repairs, which never were able to keep up with the rate that it was falling apart. It wasn't liberals and tree huggers that closed that plant down, it was simple economics. It wasn't worth fixing.

KIZ, if it is a FACT, can you send me some hard data?

The amount of electricity just WASTED for no good reason in this country is staggering, and I'm sure if serious effort was put into serious conservation and elimination of waste, we would find that we don't need nearly as much new generation capacity as we think.

But since nobody is really in a position to make a lot of dough on eliminating wasted electrical demand, and lots of people are in a position to make a lot of dough building new power plants, I doubt it will ever be taken seriously.

 

[treedancer]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

After the mileage turned over one hundred thousand on the 2002 blazer that was bought new, plus the sixty four thousand on the 1999 ford pickup that was also bought new, got me 1999 Geo metro. It gets twice the mileage as the Blazer at about forty miles to the gallon. Good enough for the little running around, like going to the gym three times a week and short runs. Sure cant carry much but it keeps some of the money out of the oil companies pockets, that I like. Plus sob had to cut some of my favorite {tree friends} down to feed my fireplace this winter sob.

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Among many other things, we replaced my wife's wagon which got about 22 mpg, with a 89 geo metro 4 door which gets 45 MPG. And with the back seat folded down, it will still haul two bales of hay!

And when I had to do work to that car, it was very fast and easy. I had the tranny out and the clutch and flywheel removed in a little over an hour.

Can't say i like driving it, but it sure does save $, and sends way fewer of my dollars overseas.

Working on setting up a biodiesel processor this winter to feed my truck. Got through most of last summer on salvaged heating oil, but that was more scarce this year.

 

[QC]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Hey, Mr. Woodrat, inefficient fish-killer that snatches them from their environment while spewing unburnt hydrocarbons into their fresh water, better not use biodiesel as it generally increases NOx emissions . . .

I know how we can conserve more energy. Tax the flippin' snot out of it as we're clearly not responsible enough to monitor it ourselves. Then the poor will not be able to afford electricity. And then we can be just as responsible as our friends in Europe who have done just that and made wasteful use of energy reserved for the truly wealthy. Sounds like a plan to me . . .

I am not affraid of your nuclear challenge, I just don't know the answers . . . I am, however, confident you would vote to spend bazillions on a mythical Hydrogen Super Highway regardless of the safety, efficiency, real world well to wheel carbon emissions, or environmental impact of acres upon acres of solar panels to create the energy to reform the hydrogen. So why wouldn't you do the same for a proven clean technology that already exists?

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Maybe you shouldn't be so confident of things you are wrong about. Hydrogen is not an answer, and I would never vote for anything like that.

Nuclear energy is not "proven" or "clean". Hanford is leaking it's way towards the Columbia as we speak and the now defunct Trojan plant has a pile of spent fuel sitting next to the river as well. There's no safe place to put this stuff! I was living in Northern Cal when they started tearing down the Humboldt Bay plant because it was no longer worth repairing, and they just demolished the cooling tower at the Trojan plant near me.

Solar is expensive to manufacture but then produces free electricity for decades, trouble free. I know because I have used it. And you wouldn't need to wipe out acres of environment to place the panels either. Every house in America has a roof. Solar doesn't work everywhere of course, but in the right place it does work. Wind works too. The problem with all of these technologies is that people need to exercise serious conservation to make it practical, which I think we should be doing anyway, but which most people see as too much of an impostion on their lifestyle and their right to be wasteful.

Everybody likes to talk about the "greatest generation" and how they won WWII. We wouldn't even dream of making the kinds of sacrifices they made back then. We talk about denying due process to our enemies and bombing more countries whose politics and leaders vex us, but you start talking about conserving energy and fuel and you get laughed right out of the room.

Where did you get your data about NOx emissions from biodiesel? I'd like to read it. BTW, I am not dumb enough to think that biodiesel is a permanent solution either, but it is something I can do to keep my own fuel costs down. I see it as only transitional in the long run though.

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Well, a simple google search turned up what I was looking for anway. Yes, in some engines and testing regimes, B100 will produce more NOx, but much less particulate matter. Retarding timing fixes the NOx but increases PM, additives or blending with petrol diesel reduces NOx and keeps the PM benefits. So it's not as simple as you say. And besides, the overall benefits of Biodiesel for my application and goals are not outweighed by a slight increase in NOx anyway. I think you are just looking for little details to nitpick about, rather than meaningfully address the conservaton issues I have raised.

EDIT: here's a quote from one of the sites I found:

"Vehicles that run on biodiesel emit less sulfur dioxide (SO2), particulate matter (soot), carbon-dioxide (CO2), with fewer heavy Hydrocarbons (HC) and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH). Biodiesel does not contain sulfur so it will not contribute to sulfur dioxide emissions that result in acid rain. Tests have shown that the cancer-causing potential of particulate matter from pure biodiesel is about 94% less than that of regular diesel."

taken from: http://www.distributiondrive.com/Article9.html

here's another link: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html

 

[rolmops]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

this country should change to hydro electric and nuclear power.
Big oil and NOT the hippies are the chief reason why the USA is so far behind in nuclear energy compared to Japan and Europe.

 

[QC]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Woodrat,

My point about bio-diesel, solar, wind, hydrogen etc. is that one man's solution is always another man's pollution.

My point about conservation is that the only way to guarantee it is to price it to the point that people are forced to conserve which is unacceptable for a variety of reasons.

Low Emission technology is what I do for a living . . . Almost all data is cherry picked to support the position of those who publish the data. Feel good stuff never works, unless there is an economic benefit or penalty, you won't get significant results (note your personal driver for bio diesel). What I call "Emissions Du Jour" is a joke. I have had numerous projects funded in So Cal simply for NOx reductions hence my Bio-Diesel NOx comment. Diesel particulate emissions are almost totally gone with today's technology, but the enviro whackos don't care because when it gets down to it they hate oil companies, not emissions. Data won't change their minds.

Sooooooo, with all of that said, I am convinced nobody needs to do nuttin' as the sheer economics of energy will lead us to the next solution when it is too painful to live with the existing stuff. In the meantime I'll try and make money with stuff that achieves both lower emissions and lower operating costs despite all of the BS in this flipped up industry . . .

I'm with rolmops, speaking of selfish interests, more Hydroelectric means more and bigger lakes . . . Yeah, baby, yeah!!

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

hydroelectric kills salmon.

see what a killjoy I am?

As far as letting economics solve the problem, well, everytime the cost of killing the salmon starts to get figured into the price of electricity around here, everyone who doesn't care about salmon starts screaming about how unfair it is that their power prices might go up incrementally. And then they waste way more than that leaving the lights and the heat on all the time. And this is in the PNW where we aleady have some of the cheapest power in the nation.

Sure we could wait until we're trying to sqeeze oil out of shale and sand and all the salmon are gone and every river has at least a couple of defunct nuke pants sitting there with a pile of old fuel glowing into the next centruy and THEN we could start conserving. Personally, I think I'd rather hang on to the quality of life we have now, salmon and pollution-wise and see what we can do to improve on that.

I know that you are right, though. We WILL kill all the salmon and pollute every river and be down to scratching for oil in unlikely and expensive places and then everyone will STILL be screaming about how unfair it is that their energy costs so much. And that makes me pretty sad and frustrated, because I for one place a greater value on healthy salmon runs that I do on electricity that is cheap enough to waste. If that makes me an enviro whacko, well, so be it.

 

[QC]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

woodrat,

Your Salmon comment concerning hydroelectric is exactly what I mean by one man's solution . . .

To be clear, I do believe in Environmental legislation and standards. I know first hand what OEMs will do if left alone to police themselves. This is why I am not a Libertarian. Economics won't sort out everything.

Nuclear seems like the best compromise for your personal priorities if you ask me . . . Yes, there are risks there too, but what in life does not carry risk? A teepee? Critters might get ya . . .

 

[woodrat]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Yes, I understand about one man's solution being another man's pollution. That underscores my point about conservation rather precisely. Conservation could go a very long ways towards alleviating the need for new generation of any kind, hydro or nukes. Why does everyone ignore and dismiss this very simple, cheap possibility in favor or expnsive, unreliable and sometimes dangerous nuclear power?

I hesitate to assume everyone gets their news and opinion from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, but this obsession with nuclear (that's nu-cle-ar, not nu-kew-ler, as our prez likes to say) is starting to strike me as coming straight from Rush's playbook. It seem like conservation would be a natural fit for those who call themselves conservatives. Yet our very own **** Cheney famously dismissed conservation as a nice personal virtue, but otherwise worthless.

To my mind, that is arrogant and ignorant folly.

 

[crunch]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Yes, I understand about one man's solution being another man's pollution. That underscores my point about conservation rather precisely. Conservation could go a very long ways towards alleviating the need for new generation of any kind, hydro or nukes. Why does everyone ignore and dismiss this very simple, cheap possibility in favor or expnsive, unreliable and sometimes dangerous nuclear power?

I hesitate to assume everyone gets their news and opinion from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, but this obsession with nuclear (that's nu-cle-ar, not nu-kew-ler, as our prez likes to say) is starting to strike me as coming straight from Rush's playbook. It seem like conservation would be a natural fit for those who call themselves conservatives. Yet our very own **** Cheney famously dismissed conservation as a nice personal virtue, but otherwise worthless.

To my mind, that is arrogant and ignorant folly.

You're

. Don't you think if it were to happen, it would have already?.... real solutions for a real world.

How do you feel about using only renewable resources for power?

 

[Raghauler]

Re: What can we do to be more Green?? (Save money and energy)

Welp, I haven't been here in a long time, but I just gotta say...

First and foremost, conservation is key. It, however, can not solve ALL our problems, only make them easier to manage.

Where I live in PA, nukes generate more power than any other source, and aside from the human interaction that caused Three Mile Island to go south in 1979 (the reactor shut itself down, humans - regretably - turned it back on, hence the failure), we have a pretty good safety record. Hanford in WA was a nuclear arms manufacturing facility and it is VERY unfair to compare that facility to a nuclear commercial generation facility.

The real problem is what to do with the waste? Yucca Mt. is the best solution, but alas, too many risks for the naysayers and so we are in limbo with no real reduction of risk. The waste resides at each facility it is produced. That's a real shame on us.

Keep in mind nuclear powered electrical generation is a matter of scale. ONE nuke unit equates in generation capacity to between 80 and 100 coal/natural gas units. Most plants have more than one nuke unit, so waste is concentrated. Maybe Al Gore's movie wouldn't be so popular if we continued our nuclear program instead of building the hundreds (thousand+?) coal and gas fired units North America relies on for electrical generation. Nuke's emit 0 to the air. Let me let you ponder it this way: How many human's health was affected by the 1979 TMI mishap? How many Americans suffer lung disease and cancers due to air and water polution at the hands of a thousand coal plants? I bet I (and you) know which is worse, even though no one can prove it either way.

And I'm not some trendy republican who listens to Rush... I'm an enginer who has been saying this long before it became "popular", sine the 1980's. There are risks in life. We need to manage them instead of shying away from them, allowing problems to get worse.

 

[crunch]

Re: What can we do to be Green?? (Save money and energy)

Re: What can we do to be Green?? (Save money and energy)

Green, well there is a subject we can fight about for weeks... it's a two edged sword.

We all know nuclear power plants are bad, right?

We all know that coal power plants are bad, right?

We all know oil fired plants are bad, right?

We all know that to save a tree, we should ask for plastic instead of paper at the store, right?

Use man made materials instead of natural, right?

Farm without pesticides, right?

Use natural fertilizers, right?

If you answered yes to more than 5, you aren’t green, you have condemned 90% of the human race to death.

Woodrat, how did you score on that ?