Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

[hazwild]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

hey thanks for the starter class being a newbie it is very helpfull.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

Even if Don S doesn't think you could have it all right,

Ayuh,.........

Don Always thinks I don't have it Right,........
Or,.......
Maybe Don just thinks I'm Not Quite Right.................................

 

[Robj]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

Those SAE standards are there for a reason as are the laws requiring their use. A starter must meet all those standards, not "most" of them.

From a pure liability issue, suggesting that someone can use an automotive starter on a boat is CRAZY and IRRESPONSIBLE. You can do whatever you want on your boat, but don't suggest that it is OK or that others do the same. Those rules are there for a reason and a very good reason. There was a post that I did a few months ago about a boat that exploded and the
CG investigation found that it was probably due to automotive parts. Will never know what the exact cause was because it exploded. Will find the link later, have to go to work. But why risk it??? Drives me crazy what people are willing to do for a few $$.

I work for an engineering company and often give advice to clients. I always have to think of the liability issue, and for me this also extends to what I write on this forum. And telling someone to use automotive parts in their boat is something I would never do.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[pontooner]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

I don't want to advertise for ebasicpower.com, but that is where I got my starter... and it was like $109. So, we aren't really even talking about saving $100, you are talking about saving like $50 by going with an auto starter.

CptKid is probably real close on this one. I replaced my started earlier this year (thanks for the advice and help on that) and it was $100.00. It was a real pain to install, but I didn't mind paying a few extra $$ to put a standard part back on my boat.

 

[peejcj8]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

Here in Virginia Beach we have a alternator and starter rebuild shop called Brownings. They rebuild marine starters for about 100 bucks, if you need it that day they will do it in a hour sometimes.

So you do not need to spend 400 bucks every other year, just rebuild the starter. I heard you can take a auto starter and have it rebuilt to make it marine or not, can you do that? I would ask the rebuild shop before I tried. I think a buddy of mine did that, only because he had a weird application for the starter, he has a 500 caddy engine in his boat. He needs to get rid of the 500 Caddy engine.



I got a used marine starter off ebay and had it rebuilt to use as a spare, that made a cheap option. So I think you might have options to save money, but do so with caution.

I use nothing but marine components, some of these lessons are from experiance.

 

[ron7000]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

There was a post that I did a few months ago about a boat that exploded and the CG investigation found that it was probably due to automotive parts. Will never know what the exact cause was because it exploded. Will find the link later, have to go to work. But why risk it??? Drives me crazy what people are willing to do for a few $$.

"we will never knew what the exact cause was because it exploded but probably due to automotive parts"

a blanket statement like that is real fair and honest and really reaffirms my faith in the coast guard
unless the story details what happened and has reasonable and believable proof then that's one thing. But to assume like that is misleading and wrong, but they'll justify it based on safety and risk.

it's not like i'm suggesting go by an automotive starter from an auto parts store and just stick it in your boat, case closed. If that's how you interpret it then get a clue.
Try understand what a starter is, how it works, and what actually is incorporated into it that is supposed to make it safer! Then you might begin to see a lot of less than truthfull information, and misinformation, regarding the whole topic of marine starters and automotive starters. And knowing wtf you're doing is what will make you safer, not blindly following rules and laws set forth by whoever who then can't provide the specific information regarding those rules.
If you work for an engineering company, ponder this: instead of giving advice based on liability issues, give advice based on fact and sound logic. Then the safety issues will naturally fall into place and you won't have to give advice based on liability issues. That is what engineering is, not passing off information based on liability and risk to circumvent responsibility and accountability. glad we don't work together. i'll bet you subscribe to the "if it cost more it must be designed better" rationalization

I will admit that starter prices especially from basic power, overtons, even sierra from west marine are not out of line with starters at the auto store these days, they are all around $100-$200. truth be told though, i don't care what you do, i just like jerking the chain of the ever politically correct iboat brain trust.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

Let's see here, your bottom fishing off the east coast of FLA. OH NO here comes a white squall!!!.. You ain't got time to run them blowers and get moving. So what do you want, to have a starter and alternator that that keeps the fumes away from the brushes or not.

The sea kills TOOPID people and not taking advantage of every safety precaution is TOOPID.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

I hate to sound like a blood-sucking lawyer....but

You know, we can argue all day long whether an automotive starter is "better/same/similar/etc" as one certified under SAEJ1171.

I think I may have said it in a previous post but the real bottom line is if you have a Ka-boom in your boat, and the insurance company comes calling to inspect (and they will) ..........

IF they find a starter, Alternator, distributor etc, that should have an SAE J1171 stamp/sticker/tag on it and it doesn't or the model/serial number is NOT consistent with a SEA J1171 model , THEY WILL TRY TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!

It's a way out for them!

They will always look for an easy, obvious way out (especially one that's SPELLED out in a policy disclaimer) If it can be proven. you may have other liability issues and (if the law is involved) legal issues as well.

Use your own judgment.


Regards,


Rick

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

"we will never knew what the exact cause was because it exploded but probably due to automotive parts"

a blanket statement like that is real fair and honest and really reaffirms my faith in the coast guard
unless the story details what happened and has reasonable and believable proof then that's one thing. But to assume like that is misleading and wrong, but they'll justify it based on safety and risk.

it's not like i'm suggesting go by an automotive starter from an auto parts store and just stick it in your boat, case closed. If that's how you interpret it then get a clue.
Try understand what a starter is, how it works, and what actually is incorporated into it that is supposed to make it safer! Then you might begin to see a lot of less than truthfull information, and misinformation, regarding the whole topic of marine starters and automotive starters. And knowing wtf you're doing is what will make you safer, not blindly following rules and laws set forth by whoever who then can't provide the specific information regarding those rules.
If you work for an engineering company, ponder this: instead of giving advice based on liability issues, give advice based on fact and sound logic. Then the safety issues will naturally fall into place and you won't have to give advice based on liability issues. That is what engineering is, not passing off information based on liability and risk to circumvent responsibility and accountability. glad we don't work together. i'll bet you subscribe to the "if it cost more it must be designed better" rationalization

I will admit that starter prices especially from basic power, overtons, even sierra from west marine are not out of line with starters at the auto store these days, they are all around $100-$200. truth be told though, i don't care what you do, i just like jerking the chain of the ever politically correct iboat brain trust.[/quote]
I like your post, especially this ^ disclaimer part that that made reading the rest of your posts on this thread.....
WORTHLESS!......

 

[Robj]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/TP/TP14477/video.htm

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

From Ron7000:

Try understand what a starter is, how it works, and what actually is incorporated into it that is supposed to make it safer! Then you might begin to see a lot of less than truthfull information, and misinformation, regarding the whole topic of marine starters and automotive starters. And knowing wtf you're doing is what will make you safer, not blindly following rules and laws set forth by whoever who then can't provide the specific information regarding those rules.

By now it is apparent that everyone else here (especially the master marine technician with over 13,000 posts, who graciously provided you with the pictures and info you requested despite your obnoxious posts!) but you understands the differences between an automotive and marine starter, and why those differences are desirable. I must admit though your posts make amusing reading as you try to defend your ignorance instead of taking the opportunity to learn something!

 

[qystan]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

I can agree that the rules are old and may be out of date. If you think about it, most rules are common sense that came out of learnings (accidents). Over the years most appear to become irrelevant/unnecessary when similar industries evolve and unique practices become commonplace.

However, such rules still need to be kept to remind the industry that there are unique factors to be considered. If these were taken away, it creates a situation for the industry to regress and allows manufacturers to cut corners for a few bucks. This is true in all industries.

On the topic of starters and alternators, todays' auto units are sealed, not for reasons of explosion proofing, but for reliability - sealing keeps out dust and moisture.

I've seen the auto version of the Merc Mando alternator, except for the added coat of black paint - its exactly the same. Cost difference is about $60 - for something that lasts years, its not worth the question hanging over your head every time you are out on the water.

Cost aside, liabilities - you pay out good cash for insurance, why save 50 bucks to kill that and add negligence liabilities?

Just my thoughts.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

On the topic of starters and alternators, todays' auto units are sealed, not for reasons of explosion proofing, but for reliability - sealing keeps out dust and moisture.


Just my thoughts.

A few are most are not, plenty of brush sparks visible in them alternators. Plus auto starters are seldom sealed around the commutator shaft behind the bendix gear assy.

 

[ron7000]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

graciously provided me with pictures and info I requested while I defend my ignorance instead of trying to learn something?
those were 3 generic starter pictures,
now if he gave 'http://www.jnelectric.com]printable unit breakdowns[/url] i could understand your response

http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/TP/TP14477/video.htm

11. Old car ignition parts may have been the culprit. They do not have protection from sparks and could ignite lingering gas vapors in a boat.

22. (Armstrong) This is a marine engine. It has provisions built into the alternator to prevent explosions on start up or when it is running. The same for the distributor, it too has explosion protection built in. So does the starter. All three marine components are marine approved. This is a flame arrester unit, not an air filter. It prevents flames from coming out, if there is a backfire in the engine.

i must be the only one looking into the facts, once again an assumption that car parts were used.
...provisions built in to prevent explosions > once again the mentality of how marine parts will save the world. Besides, this happened in canada

oh no here come's a white squall

serves you right for not checking the weather.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Whats the difference between a car and a boat starter?

More wasted words......​