wheel bearing overheating?

[Edge180]

So as not to further hi-jack somoene else's thread I am posting my own as suggested to flush out my symptoms in hopes of fixing the problem myslef. Below is a quick run down of the equipment and service I know of:

2002 Sport Boat single axle trailer, break-away tongue, stock surge breaks, drum breaks, bearing buddys.
Since I purchased this boat + trailer used in '07 I've had a trailer shop service the brakes and bearings. Once in 09 and 10
In 2009 they repacked the bearings.
In 2010 they changed the brake lines and wheel cylinders due to the brakes sticking, repacked axle bearings, (the following is the list of parts installed) New 10-12" LH uni-servo wheel cyl, line fitting kit single axle, 10x2.25 premier RH surge brk and marine seal kit 2.33x1.68 UFP, BB only10"
(Shop recommended I replace master cylinder, but I declined repair at the time)

Symptoms: Passenger side BB caps have been popping off after relatively short pulls of 1 hour. On a recent long haul BB popped and grease boiling out.

My research:
Lifted passenger side tire to spin. Does not spin freely.
Lifted drivers side, spins a little more than passenger side, but still has mild resistance.
Checked oil level in master cylinder, looks to be okay. Color looks okay too.
Checked for "play" in lateral tire movement by pushing on top and bottom of passenger side tire. Tight.
Adjusted star "nut" inside break drum. No difference clicking up or down. Straightened the break-away toungue and pushed a little thin metal tab just behind where the hitch mounts (there are no places to insert screw drivers and lock-out surge break), went back to the tire; now it spins freely; no resistance whatsoever.

Master cylinder needs replacement, rebuild? I'll re-pack the bearings as I'm sure the passenger side is nearly empty.

 

[rbh]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Were the axle nuts possibly overtightend to much causing the overheating issue??

(are the bearings and races blued/overheated??)

To tighten axle nuts, spin tire and tighten nuts to allow for the bearings to seat, when tight back off 1/4 turn, place cotter pin in the castle nut.


If the brakes are being held on do to hung up master cylinder, check for major pad/drum wear.

 

[oregoncruiser]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Couldn't have said it better, do what RBH said

 

[jetboater]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Definitately check the tightness of the axle nuts to makes sure they are Ok but i'd bet your problem is with your brakes as you said the wheels spin freely when you release them--- that would likely mean its the brakes binding the wheels.

None of your service records indicate the bearings were replaced---just repacked---after you get the brakes fixed, be sure to repack or replace the bearings (i'd probably replace them as they are 10 years old and have been overheated--all 4 bearings and seals should run no more than $30-40)---check the axle nut tightness as rbh recommends after that's done.

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating? added photos

Re: wheel bearing overheating? added photos

Thanks for the replies. You're right, I didn't notice that my bearings had not been replaced. The "caslte nut"was loose; no wrench required to pull off. Bearings and races were not blue and generally looked good. I found a bunch of splinters in the back of the inside cage due to my blowing it out with a pine wood block. Spent most of time carefully pulling all that out with tweezers!!! I'll pry the seal off next time or at least use oak or hickory (oops!).

The rear seal was shot replaced with new. Spindle looked good, felt smooth. Races looked and felt fine. Repacked bearing and hub full with grease. Moved all the parts for the brakes and sprayed down generously with brake-cleaner. Wiped down and vacuumed out excess dust. Tightened nut, backed off 1/4 turn. Gunned a handful of grease into BBs until it moved out, put the caps on and test drove.

Pass side was warm, (not hot) after a short 5 mile drive. Now, my drivers side is hot. Drum brake is almost too hot to touch.

Lifted drivers side wheel and started messing with the star adjuster. I got it to stop and then attempted to back it off a few more clicks but couldn't budge it now. I pumped the surged a few times and can say now that it's released. Still need to test drive.

In hind sight, I should have just replaced the bearings and races as suggested. Good insurance I think. I may still do that because it sounds like I still have some investigating to do.

drum removed bearings, seal (old) removed

 

[bruceb58]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Did you pull the driver's side hub/drum and inspect the brakes? Peel the rubber seal back on the wheel cylinder and inspect for corrosion in there too.

By the way, you may already know this but whenever you remove the rear seal, you always replace it.

 

[lncoop]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Edge, I owe you an apology. I was hammering away at you on the wheel cylinders because I wrongly assumed they were the same age as the trailer (probably because that's how old I let mine get before I replaced them:redface. I'd still start there though since it's only one side, and I don't think it's uncommon for one to become corroded enough in two years to cause this issue. Also, I had an adjuster seize on me last year. I was able to get another one at a local trailer parts shop.

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Edge, I owe you an apology. I was hammering away at you on the wheel cylinders because I wrongly assumed they were the same age as the trailer (probably because that's how old I let mine get before I replaced them:redface. I'd still start there though since it's only one side, and I don't think it's uncommon for one to become corroded enough in two years to cause this issue. Also, I had an adjuster seize on me last year. I was able to get another one at a local trailer parts shop.

No apology necessary. Thanks for the help! I think the drivers side could be the original cause it has the same blue paint (I think the orig owner had the boat and trailer shop serviced so I imagine they would have replaced the sets of brakes entirely). The passenger side, on the other hand is new (galv- no paint).

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Did you pull the driver's side hub/drum and inspect the brakes? Peel the rubber seal back on the wheel cylinder and inspect for corrosion in there too.

By the way, you may already know this but whenever you remove the rear seal, you always replace it.

Not yet. That is my next task. Thanks for the tip on the seal. While I did not know that, It's generally my practice to replace seals when opening stuff up like this.... it's a learning process.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

if your in brackish water or salt water, the wheel cylinders on drum brakes like to corrode really fast. I just replaced mine because the pistons stuck in the bore - the brakes are two years old and only in fresh water. from what I can tell, the brakes are simply warm enough to pull water past the cylinder seal into the bore area between the piston and the end seal. this leads to rust over a short time.

going with aluminum wheel cylinders as soon as they are in stock at e-trailer.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Not yet. That is my next task. Thanks for the tip on the seal. While I did not know that, It's generally my practice to replace seals when opening stuff up like this.... it's a learning process.

Its not really a seal but a dust boot. Water gets in there no matter what which is the problem.

 

[dingbat]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

By the way, you may already know this but whenever you remove the rear seal, you always replace it.

I didn't know that. The seals on my rear axle are going on 6 years old. They don't leak so why replace them?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

I didn't know that. The seals on my rear axle are going on 6 years old. They don't leak so why replace them?

You replace when you remove the seal from the hub. That is of course unless you have found a way to remove them without bending them.

 

[dingbat]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

You replace when you remove the seal from the hub. That is of course unless you have found a way to remove them without bending them.

I gave up on the metal cased seals and went with rubber long ago. They cost a bit more but are easier to install, they accommodate eccentricity of the hub a lot better and nine times out of ten you can remove them w/o destroying the integrity of the housing.
An all around better product.

 

[rbh]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

One thing I don't thing anyone mentioned was the "STAR WHEEL" the adjuster, because of all the moisture and brake dust you really need to clean the threads up or they will not adjust very well.
I have used never seize on them (threads), but it is a chance they will seize up again do to the dust sticking to it, kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

(and don't put them in backwards!!, don't ask!! LOL)

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

I'm only in fresh water... no brackish or salt but interesting to note wheel cyls can go bad after only 2 years. My question is in our 6 years of ownership it seems that the last 2 years have had the brakes sticking and, BB caps popping off more frequently. Maybe its showing the age and lack of maintenance.

When I pull the drivers side drum, I will check the adjuster. The passenger side moved fine once the drim was off and I could access easier.

bruce, there are two seals we are talking about here right? One is the inspection cover and the other is the rear seal for the inside bearing. I replaced the rear seal and hope that this keeps water out. The inspection cover on the back of the brake I wouldn't replace and would expect water to penetrate easily.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

I gave up on the metal cased seals and went with rubber long ago. They cost a bit more but are easier to install, they accommodate eccentricity of the hub a lot better and nine times out of ten you can remove them w/o destroying the integrity of the housing.
An all around better product.

You have a link to those? All the ones I am familiar with have at least a metal ring. Some I have purchased have rubber over metal but their still is metal.

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

One thing I don't thing anyone mentioned was the "STAR WHEEL" the adjuster, because of all the moisture and brake dust you really need to clean the threads up or they will not adjust very well.
I have used never seize on them (threads), but it is a chance they will seize up again do to the dust sticking to it, kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

(and don't put them in backwards!!, don't ask!! LOL)

Okay, pulled the drivers side drum off with a lot of banging and coersion from a rubber mallet and eventually a sledge to get it to budge.
Wheel cylinder is new, but brake is orignal. How does one tell if wheel cylinder is failed?
Brake shoe looks low (about an eighth of an inch)
Star adjuster is frozen and won't budge.
Grease color is in good condition and lots of it in the hub and behind the BB.
Castlenut was tight, but not wrenched down. One little budge on my crescent and it was loose.

Here's the kicker; I went to my trailer shop and found an adjuster to match the old one. Put it in place (completely screwed down) and could not put the drum back on for the life of me. I ended up removing the adjuster altogether in order to put the drum back on. I intend to:
1) replace the brake entirely myself
2) carefully tow it to a shop to have them replace it...
(Ahhhh! I figured out why I couldn't get the drum back on... I was trying to install the adjuster with the tabs horizontal, where I should install it vertically; giving it room to squeeze down the brakes)!!!!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Wheel cylinder is new, but brake is orignal. How does one tell if wheel cylinder is failed?

Easiest way is to jack of the wheel and spin it while someone applies the surge brake manually. If it stops the wheel and then releases properly, the wheel cylinder is probably ok.

 

[Edge180]

Re: wheel bearing overheating?

Easiest way is to jack of the wheel and spin it while someone applies the surge brake manually. If it stops the wheel and then releases properly, the wheel cylinder is probably ok.

Did that. Me at the tongue and my daughter at the wheel spinning it in a forward motion. I pushed the tongue in and brakes stop the wheel. Pull it out and it appears to release.

I'll try it again after putting the adjuster in properly.