Which sonar/gps?

[turfman]

I've narrowed my selection down to three units and I'd like you guys opinions if you have any. Here goes.

Garmin 530s

Eagle 642c

Lowrance 527c

I fish Saltwater under 150ft. I'm not worried by the all in one unit cuz I have a portable gps back up.

Watcha think.

Mark

 

[dingbat]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Why the 530? It's loaded with maps of inland lakes and a freshwater transducer. If your fishing salt I would think the 440 or the 540 would be more up your alley.

 

[BillP]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Yep, do the saltwater version Garmin...same price. Pros: Best in the industry customer service, best charts and larger info data base, G2 chart (3D + other goodies) optional but not necessary, most reliable of the three, most user friendly. Cons: graphics aren't as bright and crisp as Lowrance/Eagle. Smaller screen.

Lowrance and Eagle...Eagle is the economy version of Lowrance at a lower price tag. Pros: best graphics. Larger screens. Cons: Less than stellar customer service, basic (compared to Garmin) charting and data base info, less reliable than Garmin, less user friendly (take your operators manual along).

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

I would not even consider the Eagle 642c as it does not have enough power
(187) for 150 feet of salt water. Yes on good days you could see fish at 150 feet but on the days with plankton or air after and durning a storm just not enough power.

As other suggest for saltwater you want the garmin 540S.
It has a 5 inch screen with 240v by 320H resoultion.
It has enough power (500 watts) for 150 feet of saltwater.
IT has 1500 waypoints but only 20 routes. For me 20 routes would not be enough. For the ocean itself it would be fine but if you also fish inland rivers and lakes then 20 routes would not be enough for me.

Lowrance 527 C would be my choice of the three you selected. It has a 5 inch screen with a resoultion of 480V by 480H. The better resolution means more detail without having to use ZOOM. Lowrance screen usually brighter than Garmin but new garmin screen catching up.
It also has enough power (500 Watts) for the saltwater you will fish. Dual frequency transducer 50/200 KHZ with the narrow cone angles of 37/12 degree.
It has 1000 waypoints and 100 routes. Has a 12 channel Gps with internal antenna.
It has Nmea 0183, 2000, and also has ethernet so has lots of expansion built in.
I has one SD/MMC memory card slot.
This unit has built in detailed inland lakes but standard base maps for the coast and ocean. Lowrance base maps better than garmin base maps but the garmin 540s has more detailed saltwater map. With the lowrance if you want detailed water depth and contours lines you would need to add an NatutcPath Sd Card for about $90 extra.

 

[turfman]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

I don't know why I typed 530, I meant 540. Second; I'm a dummy when it comes to electronics. The only reason I got this far is because I've spent the last year reading this forum and have taken in all of the info from you guys; and for that I can't thank you enough. I have a Lowrance 330 now and need something better.

Can the 540s be upgraded for more routes. I kinda like the xm feature as I already am a subscriber and the weather is a plus. What would the G2 card give me.

Do the Nautic path cards show dteailed info on wrecks/reefs etc for offshore. I'm not looking for sam smiths tire reef, but the basic ones that would be on a chart map. As I understand it, now you don't have to buy regional maps; they are all in one chip right.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

How many routes do you currently use on your 330? If you?re like me 99.9% of the time you?re going to use the way point function for navigation unless you?re outside navigational boundaries on the inshore waterways. I only have 3 saved routes and all three of those are to friend?s docks on the shoreline with unmarked channels if that?s what you want to call them. More like deeper paths thru the mud.

The data from the G2 chip comes already loaded on the 540 so I guess you?re asking about the G2 Vision chip. The vision charts gets you high-resolution satellite imagery, above and below the water 3D perspective, auto guidance technology, and aerial photographs for real world reference. If only having 20 routes and 20 saved tracks on the unit still bother you then the auto guidance feature may be your solution.

The Vision chip is really neat but it does slow down my 4208 noticeably when I turn on all the functions. Not sure it's the same with the 540 but something to think about when considering adding the extra features of the vision card.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

I checked Garmin's site for firmware upgrades and they did make one change to routes. It appears before the routes could only be used one way. Now they added a reverse route. I do not see anything that added routes but they could change sometime.

A couple of thing I forgot to mention before that you should check before you buy. At this years boat show Garmin was there with their top of the line units. Newest units have touch screens, something that I do not care for on a fishing boat. Fishing salt water I am always taking fish off for me and the wife and sometimes the kids. I do have several rags to wipe hands on but by the end of the day not always the cleanest hands and useing a touch sceen does not seam like a good idea.

At the boat show I looked at the units in the 7 inch size range and up. I could not belive how slow the garmins were. I always compare units by looking at areas that I fish. Well they had some set up for LA or somewhere south at the time so had to move the cursor up to San Francisco and Bodega Bay. I could not belive how slow the unit was to re draw the maps. The rep keep saying it because it has a lot to redraw. While I agree it had a lot to redraw when I went to the Lowrance both and did the same thing they re draw at least 4 times faster and have the same information.

I have a Lowrance IFinder H2O C hanheld and a Garmin GPSMAP 76 and the garmin is also very slow to redraw anytime you zoom in or out or go to a different screen. I know the IFinder H2O C has a dual core processor and one is didicated to the screen. Anyway when you go to check it out compare speed to redraw the screen on simple redraw after a zoom in or out.

One other point someone said the Lowrance was much harder to operate and you would have to take the manual. All I will say is the Lowrance and Garmin Handhelds I have they operate almost identical. Both are menu driven and I see very little difference. For example on the Garmin to set a new waypoint you have to hold the enter key for 2 seconds. As long as you remember you must use the enter key and hold for 2 seconds until it beeps twice no big deal. The Lowrance has a waypoint key and you hit it one time. At that point both units will let you change the name and set a symbol and are almost identical. Lowrance does have more symbols to choose from but the operations are the same for both units. I do not belive either is any harder than the other.

Also if you would like you can download a Emulator of the Lowrance 527 C. This allows you to learn how to use the unit at home from your PC before you go to look at the units. Most require a Pc Screen resolution of 1024 by 768 or more to run right.

If you want to do this go to Lowrance.com, go to the bottom of the home page and click on sitemap. Then scroll down the new page until you see emulators and click on that. Last scroll down the page to the 527 C and download the emulator. They also have the manuals to help guide you thru anything you want to try. I keep several on my PC and use them all the time. If someone give a location you can move the cursor to that latitude and longitude and see exactly what they are talking about.

The One I use the most is the Lowrance M68 C. It is the one that has local names that are not on the chart but are on Lowrance units. An example would be at Lat 38.10.807N and long 122.57.953W is a rock very near the shore line that form the sea side looks exactly like and Elephant. Local name is Elephant Rock. The chart does show that rock along with many others and everyone knows where this rock is because if it not foggy when you pass by and you see it you will know that must be Elephant rock.

An example of where you need a good route to get out to sea is
Lat 38.19.372N and Long 123.03.122W. This is Buoy 26 that is where you turn west to the boat ramp. This is where we launch and camp. It is only 1.3 miles to the entrance of the bay but they have placed 26 buoys in that area. It is very foggy every summer morning and the channel is only about 80 feet wide so to be safe and get out You need about 13 waypoints to keep you in the safe channel. We do not launch until we can see at least 2 sets of buoys. Even when you make it out of the jetties you make a hard turn to starboard and need two more waypoints to get safely out between Bodega head and Bodega rock. About 300 feet wide but drops to a water depth of about 26 feet. Many times have pass thru there with out seeing the head or the rock.

When swell are between 8 to 10 foot is not uncommon to get breakers in that water that is 26 feet deep. In this case we use a different route that takes you south east of bodega rock to the center Guide channel buoy BA 38.17.208N by 123 02.360W where the water is 60 to 80 feet deep and much safer with big swells. If you need to get fuel then that is another route you could use but for us if it that foggy we will get gas at the gas station not the marina.

Any just a couple of examples where you need several routes to get in and out safely.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Boatist,
I see you make mention of handhelds all the time. What unit do you use for primary navigation?

 

[BillP]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Might be some confusion between basemaps and navigation charts. Basemaps are less detailed and show minimal or no navigation aids. Lowrance handhelds/chartplotters & Garmin handhelds have preloaded basemaps. Navigation charts are same or similiar as NOAA Marine charts. Garmin Bluecharts are like NOAA with added info and are preloaded into Garmin units.

Next comes aftermarket navigation charts. Some are detailed and others not but they are brand specific as to compatibilty. Example...Lowrance and Garmin chartplotters will not operate the same mapping software.

The Garmin 440/540 etc come with a BlueChart navigation map. It shouldn't be confused with the Lowrance handheld and 527 chartplotter basemap or Garmin's handheld basemap. The preloaded Bluechart shows the entire coastline of the USA. The only way to get somewhat detailed charts in a Lowrance is to buy additional charting...and none that Lowrance operates with are as detailed as Bluecharts. This is well known throughout the industry and one reason Lowrance loses sales. More charting detail comes the price of slower screen regeneration on the Garmin. The Garmin does have settings for different levels of detail shown if you want it that way. Garmin edges out Lowrance by a large margin in navigation charting...no ifs ands or buts.

Same goes for operation...Do not compare Lowrance/Garmin handhelds and think they are the same as comparing chartplotters. Lowrance 527 chartplotters are way less user friendly to everyone who demos them side by side with a Garmin 440/540. The best way to prove it to yourself is find these units displayed at a retail store and spend time pushing buttons, looking at charts, changing settings and searching information databases.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Dingbat
My primary navigation is done with a Furuno LC 90 Loran C 1981 model.

Also have a older Garmin GPSMAP 76 that has a good base map with all the navigation aids and Buoys.

Last year I got a second handheld Lowrance IFinder H2O C and I love it. It is fast bright and very sensitive. Has a great base map with all the navigation aids and buoys.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

I had a a mid-80's Micrologic loran on my last boat. Starting having some problems with it and got a Garmin 162 chart plotter when they first came out. The 162 has served me well but the old eyes just can't see that small screen anymore.

I upgraded to a Garmin 4208 last fall and it was like going from an old 12" B/W TV to a new plasma flat screen. Still have the 162 on board but it's only used as back up anymore.

 

[tommays]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

I have never seen any differance in the quality of the Lowrance and Garmin chips as far as the normal chart info

While the Sat images and other eye candy are nice ONE good storm to move some shoals and everbodys stuff is useless


With the currect lack of updated chart info ,unless Garmin is sending out there own survey ships i fail to see how they can have better basic info


Tommays

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

We will just have to disagree.
Many Garmin units do not have navigation aids and buoys on the base map and their base maps are very poor detail. I Have not found a Lowrance unit that does not have navigation aids and buoys and I have checked a lot of units.

Aftermarket charts for Garmin are not capatibilty with other brands but Navionics charts are compatable with many brands, Lowrance, Eagle, Furuno, Humingbird Raymarine, Northstar and others.


http://www.navionics.com/GoldPlusCompatiblePlotters.asp


For the coast of California where I fish Nauticpath and Navionics are just as good as Garmins Blue charts and they are cheaper.
Nauticpath charts are just like Marine paper charts but they have points where it will tell you the tide Level and weather is a EBB or Flood tide. It also has many points where you the check the current flow and direction. They do not have satellite views or 3D views. They do have depths, conture lines, Wreaks, all the navigation aids, points of interest and much more.

They also have many local names that are not on the Paper charts from NOAA or Garmin charts on the top of the line Garmin slow touch screen models that hey had at this years boat show. An example is Elephant rock is displayed on Garmin as a rock but no name. The same with all the beaches and coves. Lowrance does show the rock with the name. Even after fishing the area since 1981 and learning 70 percent of the names of popular fishing area, I down loaded lowrance's Emulators for the M68 C a very cheap unit. Looking at the base map I found the location of many places I had heard people talk about on the radio but could never figure out where they were. So for the last 2 years when I here someone mention a place I know where it is.

Navionics Gold charts also show the entire USA Coastline. They draw the same data as Garmin but Lowrance is faster. With Lowrance you can turn on or off any data you want or do not want also.
Lowrance HD units have all the maps installed on a Hard Drive, Coastal charts inland roads and lakes with way more detail than I want.

We do agree you should go to a place that has both and compare.

 

[BillP]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

We will just have to disagree.
Many Garmin units do not have navigation aids and buoys on the base map and their base maps are very poor detail. I Have not found a Lowrance unit that does not have navigation aids and buoys and I have checked a lot of units.

Aftermarket charts for Garmin are not capatibilty with other brands but Navionics charts are compatable with many brands, Lowrance, Eagle, Furuno, Humingbird Raymarine, Northstar and others.


http://www.navionics.com/GoldPlusCompatiblePlotters.asp


For the coast of California where I fish Nauticpath and Navionics are just as good as Garmins Blue charts and they are cheaper.
Nauticpath charts are just like Marine paper charts but they have points where it will tell you the tide Level and weather is a EBB or Flood tide. It also has many points where you the check the current flow and direction. They do not have satellite views or 3D views. They do have depths, conture lines, Wreaks, all the navigation aids, points of interest and much more.

They also have many local names that are not on the Paper charts from NOAA or Garmin charts on the top of the line Garmin slow touch screen models that hey had at this years boat show. An example is Elephant rock is displayed on Garmin as a rock but no name. The same with all the beaches and coves. Lowrance does show the rock with the name. Even after fishing the area since 1981 and learning 70 percent of the names of popular fishing area, I down loaded lowrance's Emulators for the M68 C a very cheap unit. Looking at the base map I found the location of many places I had heard people talk about on the radio but could never figure out where they were. So for the last 2 years when I here someone mention a place I know where it is.

Navionics Gold charts also show the entire USA Coastline. They draw the same data as Garmin but Lowrance is faster. With Lowrance you can turn on or off any data you want or do not want also.
Lowrance HD units have all the maps installed on a Hard Drive, Coastal charts inland roads and lakes with way more detail than I want.

We do agree you should go to a place that has both and compare.

I for sure disagree with a lot of what you are posting as fact. I work in the trade and sell marine electronics. I see what brands are more failure prone and which companies give the best customer support...and have highest customer satisfaction. I've spent considerable time operating the Lowrance 527c and Garmin 440s...they sit side by side on our functional display. The Garmin has better preloaded charting, better preloaded data base information, higher quality, more features, more user friendly, better (much better) customer support, higher (much higher) customer satisfaction. We also sell every electronic charting software known to man...see it and talk to numerous users of all brands. Bluecharts/G2Vision are by far the number one choice...and more detailed than any aftermarket nav chart available. That's one of the many reasons people are switching from other brands to Garmin. I used to be a Lowrance guy too but reality has changed that. The only reason I'd do Lowrance is for better graphics...nothing else.

 

[Kymasabe]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

My choice would the Garmin 540S. That's the combo that I wanted to buy but couldn't afford. Instead, I bought a Garmin 498 (last years now-discontinued model) and have been very happy with it. I bought mine online, new, with warranty, with internal antenna and with transducer with water temp, for only $500.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Compare units

Garmin 540 S ---------- Lowrance LMS-527 C DF -----Advantage

240 by 320 resoultion---480 by 480 Resolution ------- Lowrance more details
20 routes Not enough---100 routes-------------------Lowrance
1500 waypoints---------1000 waypoints------------- Garmin very minor
$900------------------- $700 plus $100 Maps $800--- Lowrance very minor
Bluecharts maps-------- Nauticpath or Nacionics ---- Garmin if you want 3D
20 plot trails ---------- 100 plot trails --------------- Lowrance very minor
SD card slot on front---- SD card in sealed area ------ Lowrance very minor

NMEA 0183-------------NMEA 0183 NMEA 2000 ------- Lowrance if used
- - - - -- - - - - - - - - Ethernet 2 RS232 Ports

Easy Operation - - - - - More Powerful Operation - - -Depends if you want
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - More Control
Can add XM Radio - - - Can add XM Radio - - - - - - -Both at extra cost.


Bottom line both very good units for Salt Water. After reading thru both books I would still buy the Lowrance but some may like the Garmin better.
I like to be able to control what the unit shows Me.

As a example if your want to control surface clutter on the Garmin you have two choices turn the sensitivy down which means you will see fewer fish deep. You can also turn on fish ID and see fish symbols and surface clutter will go away.

Lowrance unit you can do the same ways but I would never do either. Lowrance also has a surface clutter setting that has 4 levels of control. What it does is decrease the sensitivity near the surface and increase sensitivy near the bottom. This way you have a better chance of seeing fish near the surface and near the bottom.

From My view the difference in resoultion is the biggest difference. This give your more detail on fish. Gives you a more detailed fish arch and more likely for the color line to tell you it is a bigger fish.

Maps both units give you depth readings and conture lines, also shadeing for shallow water. Lowrance shows all the wreaks and I thing Garmin does also. Both units will show you the hight of the tide and weather it is a flood or ebb tide. Both units give you predicted currents and direction at areas on the chart. Garmin also gives you some 3D type views.
Both units will work in NORTH UP, TRACK UP, COURSE UP.

The Lowrance unit is higher defination and slightly brighter.

So if you do not care about resoultion and you want a unit that is simpler to operate buy the Garmin

If you want the best resoultion to to be able to fine ture all the settings buy the lowrance.

 

[BillP]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

One thing for sure. Lack of product knowledge really skews one's opinion when buying a chartplotter. Best way to get an accurate opinion is to have a pro who knows the units in question demo them for you...or a little knowledge can be dangerous.

bp

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

You can ask 3 pro and get three different answers. Who ever the pro's sponsers is will be the product he recomends. Same with salemen, what ever he makes the most money off of is what he will recomend.

Better to down load the manuals and check it out your self. Make sure your checking it out in an area you know.

 

[BillP]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

You can ask 3 pro and get three different answers. Who ever the pro's sponsers is will be the product he recomends. Same with salemen, what ever he makes the most money off of is what he will recomend.

Better to down load the manuals and check it out your self. Make sure your checking it out in an area you know.

Bluntly said, that's less than stellar advice...that reasoning is exactly why people form inaccurate opinions on charting, operation, features and make inaccurate statements (as seen on this string). A complete demo of the two units and said software side by side will clearly show why reading manuals gives only partial info. Demos get past biased opinion and show details that manuals don't and can't provide.

bp

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which sonar/gps?

Bill Likes to say my information is misleading and inaccurate but it is not.
It all facts from Garmin and Lowrances sites.
I am a honest guy and have no reason to mislead anyone.
I make no money from any of these products. I have not see the 540S in our local stores as west marine is not stocking it. I did see the 535S which is the freshwater verison. It has the same screen size. One thing I did not like about it is in split screen mode, you do not see much of the chart or the fish finder. Each screen is only 1.5 inch wide. It is taller than the lowrance screen but has less resoultion 320V than Lowrance 480V. This probably not a big deal in 150 feet of water but if fish out deeper becomes more important. I have seen all the top of the line units that Garmin had and 2 boat shows I attended.

The most important thing we do agree on is it is very important to go to the Store and see both units before you buy.

I do not normaly buy the upgraded maps. On my boat I have both a Gramin Handheld GPS and a Lowrance Handheld GPS and both units have only the base maps they came with. Both work perfect. Both my units have all the Buoy and navigation aids on the base map. One thing that disapointed me with Garmin is they down graded the base maps on the same model new units. Only reason I can think of that they did that is to force your to buy the upgraded maps. My unit has all the Buoy, ranges and navigation aids. The new units do not.

On the 540S I would not be able to get by with 20 routes. At least in one of the last firmware upgrades they made the routes where you use foward and backwards. Too bad they did not increase to 50 routes. I use routes in every trip to the Pacific Ocean where I have 8 in use. San Francisco bay have 4 in use. San Pablo bay Have 3 in use, Susisun Bay have 4 in use, West Delta Have 5 in use, two inland lakes I have 3 each in use. The insland lakes only use when it foggy. Since my gps units are handhelds also Have many routes in use for the car. Routes to ski areas and boat shows and friends mountain homes. Also use routes to get to duck blinds in the dark.

Anyway both units are high quality units and it you want the 3D displays only Garmin has it. Garmin has the detailed Ocean maps included on the 540S. Lowrance has all the Buoys and navigations aids and Local names of fishing area, rocks, beaches, Points, coves, ect. Lowrance does not have the ocean depth and contour lines or shading for shallow water unless you buy the $99 Nauticpaths or Navionics maps.