Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

df909

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
333
So what's the deal with using a single viscosity oil vs a multi? Doesn't 10w-40 protect better than just 30w? Can you school me a bit on the intricacies of oil? Thanks.
 

Brewman61

Ensign
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
996
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

You'll find somewhere around a bazillion and two threads on oil on this forum. Pretty much all of them spiral into a mess.
Anyhoo, single viscosity and multi viscosity oils that have the same service rating offer the same level of protection. What the multi viscosity does (or is supposed to do) is to perform over a potentially wider range of operational temperatures. In cold weather, the oil will flow easier- that's the 10W aspect, and at high temperatures, act more like 40W. If your specs call for straight 30W, you'll be fine. Your specs may also allow for an alternate multi grade oil, if you can't get straight 30W, or use your boat in some conditions that are outside of the norm. The way I figure it, the people who spec'd. my engine know way more about this stuff than I do, so I stick with their recommendation.
 

df909

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
333
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Thanks. I've seen oil & gas threads go crazy with all kinds of information that didn't seem to answer the OP's question.

So that's what I thought about the single vs multi. If the multi offers more protection, then why wouldn't the engine manufacturers recommend it instead of single? I sometimes use my boat when it's like 105 outside, but then again in the winter I might take it out when it's only 50.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

What the multi viscosity does (or is supposed to do) is to perform over a potentially wider range of operational temperatures. In cold weather, the oil will flow easier- that's the 10W aspect, and at high temperatures, act more like 40W. If your specs call for straight 30W, you'll be fine.
BUT you're really NOT telling the whole story. The Non-synthetic multigrade oils such as 10W-40 is REALLY a 10w oil.........then they add VI "improvers" to increase the viscosity when the oil gets HOT.

(works great for automotive engines that sometimes start at freezing temps........(when was the last time you operated your boat in freezing or below freezing temps?)

As the VI improvers "break down"(I.E. the oil doesn't "stay in grade" for the given temp), they become unable to maintain the the higher viscosity at the higher temps where just about ALL marine engines operate anyway.........AND, which is really why a single grade oil is probably "best" for them.................

(excluding synthetics which do not use VI improvers.....and which might explain why Volvo and Merc use certain synthetics or semi synthetics)


You could also use 0W-40 or 0W-30 (synthetic) and basically get the same performance as a straight weight. I don't think you're going to get much of a benefit in a marine engine though....... You STILL need to change it every year (so it sits all winter with fresh clean oil inside)

Synthetics don't thicken at extremely low temps (take a look at the kinematic viscosity test results for Mobil 1, Amsoil and other full synthetic oils.....0W-30 for example has the SAME viscosity at 100*C as straight weight "reg" SAE30 (or it wouldn't be "SAE30") but doesn't thicken at extremely LOW temps.


Doesn't 10w-40 protect better than just 30w?
Not really.

Multigrade oils are made for a couple of reasons.

1. Winter use. If you use a "multi" in sub freezing weather, you get immediate "FLOW" of oil to where it needs to go......... Using a straight-weight you might get immediate pressure but the oil is so THICK that it DOES NOT flow right away to where it needs to be down-line of the pump like the furthest away rod or main bearing..............

(some radial aircraft engines back in the "OLD-days" used a fuel-oil dilution system where the pilot would pull a knob in the cockpit and dump AVGAS into the 50W or 60wt (AV grade-100/120 ) oil a few minutes before engine shut down. This would dilute the oil enough to make it "runny" for the morning start up.

After warmup, the gasoline would simply evaporate out of the oil. (A sort of "poor-mans" multi-grade oil!!)

It worked great except for the lead and other "stuff" that was added to the oil.......(and never mind the fire hazard ADDED to the oil :eek:........radial engines never leak do they?:rolleyes:.......LIKE A SIEVE:p!!!!)


2. The main reason is fleet fuel economy for cars....CAFE ...... (political) The lower weight oils allow for slightly higher fuel economy. It's pretty much accepted that 5W20 for a car produces the best fuel economy.......10W30 (or straight 30, 0W30) will "protect" against wear better......The auto manufacturers want increased CAFE. It's a trade off but most people don't keep their cars long enough to wear out the engine.....and manufacturers don't really care much about the second owner!!


Bottom line..........If you don't want to use the oil that Mercury or Volvo Penta suggests, you can probably use whatever you want and "never have a problem"..............

Marine engines usually fail from freeze cracking (block) and/or LACK of maintenance not what type of oil is in them...


ymmv.........




Rick
 

df909

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
333
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Ok, that makes sense. I appreciate all of the info and time spent putting this together. Also a good point about not really firing the boat up while it's stuck in ice. I think I'll stick to synthetic since it's cheaper to spend a bit more on good oil than it is to put in a new motor.
 

superbenk

Commander
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
2,033
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

I think that's about the best oil-related post I've ever read. Thanks for that!
 

Desertsky

Seaman
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
73
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

And, just a side note, your engine, once its warmed up, really doen't know what the outside air temp is. It also doesn't make a whole lot of difference what the water temp is (within reason, of course). The thermostat is going to regulate its running temp. You can run at 40F outside or 120F outside and the engine will run at whatever the thermostat is set to.

The only difference you may see is slightly less power at higher air temps due to lower air density, but that is not likely.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

And, just a side note, your engine, once its warmed up, really doen't know what the outside air temp is.
Absolutely right! And it's also why multi-grades are probably not necessary for a marine engine..............and why Mercury still recommends straight wt oils (along with their own 25W40) for most all of their engines........

The operating temp ranges for a marine engine is rather narrow compared to a car engine.......


You can read about what other people have tried in their boats.....just do a search here on iboats or ANY other boating site. Literally EVERY type of oil has been tried....... successfully too..........

Use whatever you like. I would stay away from 5W-20/30 and 10W-40 non-synthetic..


You could use what I use in my signature below though .. :rolleyes:



Cheers,


Rick
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

It worked great except for the lead and other "stuff" that was added to the oil.......(and never mind the fire hazard ADDED to the oil :eek:........radial engines never leak do they?:rolleyes:.......LIKE A SIEVE:p!!!!)

Rick

Fuel burn: Avgas @ 20gph = $100
Oil burn/leak: 5 qts/hr = $40
Sound of a 450HP Pratt & Whitney "Wasp Jr." screaming overhead: Priceless.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Fuel burn: Avgas @ 20gph = $100
Oil burn/leak: 5 qts/hr = $40
Sound of a 450HP Pratt & Whitney "Wasp Jr." screaming overhead: Priceless.

Last time I bought AVGAS it was over $6.00 per gallon!!!! .................$6.00-$7.00 per gallon around the local area.

AND a 450 Pratt will suck 25 gallons an hour, easy!!!
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Last time I bought AVGAS it was over $6.00 per gallon!!!! .................$6.00-$7.00 per gallon around the local area.

AND a 450 Pratt will suck 25 gallons an hour, easy!!!

Well, if you've got it to the firewall! I'd still like to go up in a Staggerwing with the 450 PW, that thing should really scoot!
 

df909

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
333
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Will a 450 PW fit in my 21' Bayliner? I can take out the back seat if I really need to.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Oh it could probably squeeze in there, but you'd have a mess from all of the oil those radials leak just sitting there, lol.
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
13,024
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

If you were to try a comparison, you would most likely see that with a 10w-30 or 40 oil, after running on plane for a while, then slowing down to idle speed, your hot idle oil pressure would be lower than it would be with the straight 30, 40 or Merc 25/40 oil. I use either 30 or 40 depending on temp, usually 40 weight and my oil pressure is 20-30 psi at 800 rpm hot, on a 23 year old engine. I use Chevron Delo 400, and even with straight 40, no cold starting issues what so ever, at temps as low as 50 degrees, colder than that I ain't going boating. Muti vis oils, if non synthetic, tend to shear down and thin out a lot quicker than a straight weight oil.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Why a single viscosity oil vs multi?

Well, if you've got it to the firewall!
If you've got it to the firewall, It's gonna use a little more...... The R-985 had a BSFC of about 0.45 lb/hp-hr......At full throttle, (450 hp) it would burn around 34 gal/hr.........operating at 75% power would result in about a 25/hr fuel burn. (Dad's old BT-15 used to "stagger" around at about 18 gal/hr because he REALLY pulled it back and it was a 400hp Wright.........he said the P&W 450 powered BT-13's burned more fuel even pulled back!)

..................
 
Top