Why we're there...

bekosh

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
1,382
Re: Why we're there...

Yes let us refresh our memory a bit.
El Zarqawi was a Jordanian bedouin criminal who fled Jordan because he was wanted for multiple murders that were not religion connected.He fled to Iraq which was right next door to an area that was inhabited by some bedouin from his own tribe.
Shortly after the US invasion he took advantage of the situation and started robbing and murdering for financial gain.
It was only after a while that he claimed to be an El qaida operative. He promoted himself to that title and was not known to have any earlier contacts with El Qaida at any earlier stage.
But why not take some statements of Rumsfeld, Bush and Cheney.
They all stated that there was no presence of El Qaida in Irak.

If you want to discuss history,I will be more than happy to oblige and correct you when needed.

Al Zaquari's ties to Al Queda go back to well before the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi#Biography
Upon his release from prison in 1999, Zarqawi was involved in an attempt to blow up the Radisson SAS Hotel in Amman, where many Israeli and American tourists lodged.[9] He fled Jordan and traveled to Peshawar, Pakistan, near the Afghanistan border. In Afghanistan, Zarqawi established a militant training camp near Herat, near the Iranian border.[10] The training camp specialized in poisons and explosives.[11] According to Jordanian officials and court testimony by jailed followers of Zarqawi in Germany, Zarqawi met in Kandahar and Kabul with Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders after travelling to Afghanistan.[9] He asked them for assistance and money to set up his own training camp in Herat.[12] With al-Qaeda's support, the camp opened and soon served as a magnet for Jordanian militants.[9]
Jordanian and European intelligence agencies claim that Zarqawi formed the group Jund al-Sham in 1999 with $200,000 of start up money from Osama bin Laden.[13] The group originally consisted of 150 members. It was infiltrated by members of Jordanian intelligence, and scattered before Operation Enduring Freedom. However, in March 2005, a group of the same name claimed responsibility for a bombing in Doha, Qatar.[14] Sometime in 2001, Zarqawi was arrested in Jordan but was soon released. He was later convicted in absentia and sentenced to death for plotting the attack on the Radisson SAS Hotel.
If you want to discuss history,I will be more than happy to oblige and correct you when needed. ;)
 

gonefishie

Commander
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
2,624
Re: Why we're there...

Pull them out. Who wants a democratic IRAQ? Not the iraqis'. Why does Bush think he can just roll in there and think he can change a way of life that has been there for practically ever? I served my time in the navy as part of the EOD and I feel for those guys over there now. There is no amount of money I would take to re-enlist. We will never win this type of war. Bush got who he wanted, now we need to get these guys out of there.


I agreed wholeheartedly. Remembered Vietnam? we were "bringing democracy to the Vietnamese people" now almost 40 yrs later Vietnam is still a communist state. You can't force your belief on to others, you can't make them do what they don't want to do. All of this "bringing democracy to the people" stuff is just a cover for gaining a strategic advantage over the region. That way we can have military installation in that region and can deploy troop quickly in the event something happen. I applaused that effort but they need to do it in a less costly and less deadly manner. By the way wif. just as Vlad said, what evidences do you have to convict Clinton of rape? that's serious accusation. Monica L. wasn't forced to do anything so it not qualify as a rape.
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Why we're there...


They just like to whine about Monica 'cuz it's easy & gets most people worked up over what a waste of time that whole sordid episode was....
That said, I think 'Duh'bya should be impeached for a 'blown' job!.....;)
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Why we're there...

What's yer point?....
Invaders are fair game.....
Unfortunately that is us.....
I say pull out & let them get on with the business of killing each other.....
The more the merrier, IMHO

And you are complaining about the price of gas now. You will probably have a heart attack when oil shoots up to 100/bbl after your brilliant plan goes into effect.

Ken
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Why we're there...


I'm sure BIG OIL will find a way to raise prices no matter what......
Oooooh, the Mariners lost to Tampa Bay yesterday, better raise the price of gas......:eek:
 

treedancer

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
2,216
Re: Why we're there...

Here is something that is coming out now, the complete report will be out today but some excerpts have come out early

U.S. Intelligence Community Predicted Trouble in Post-Saddam Iraq

Officials Foresaw Dangerous 'Challenges' After Saddam's Fall



<< Iraq is unlikely to break apart, but it is "a deeply divided society." There is "a significant chance" that groups would "engage in violent conflict ... unless there is an occupying force to prevent them from doing so.>> I?ve highlighted the parts that I feel pertain too this thread.

<<Neighboring states could "jockey for position ... fomenting ethnic strife inside Iraq.>>"that?s sure happing, wonder why bush didn?t notice it?

<<Iraq's political culture does not foster political liberalism or democracy.>>Wow where did that come from ,like bolt out of the sky isn?t it?

<< The second report is titled "Regional Consequences of Regime Change in Iraq." This report warns of potential instability in the region, especially if the war were to be long and violent. It also warns that al Qaeda could exploit U.S. focus on Iraq by re-establishing its presence in Afghanistan.>>

Like I said the rest of the report comes out today, so keep an eye out for it ,should have plenty more to report next week,. of course as all of the bush enablers will point out it came from ABC but news ,new is news, cant deny its existence ABC didn't fabricate it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/IraqCoverage/Story?id=3210351&page=2
 

badams270

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
41
Re: Why we're there...

There is no doubt that Saddam was a threat, but to who? Mainly his own people. He got what he deserved, and now we need to leave. We didn't find any WMD's, that we no of, we haven't gained any ground on forcing democracy on these people, and with Iraq having the 2nd largest pool of oil in the world our gas prices are the highest they have ever been. It doesnt make sense, that we don't own everyone of these wells over there. Bush is in Idle mode right now, just hoping he can skate through the next year and a half and not have any major problems over there. I'm afraid he doesn't want to pull out of there so that people can say "we told you so".
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Why we're there...

There is no doubt that Saddam was a threat, but to who? Mainly his own people. He got what he deserved, and now we need to leave. We didn't find any WMD's, that we no of, we haven't gained any ground on forcing democracy on these people, and with Iraq having the 2nd largest pool of oil in the world our gas prices are the highest they have ever been. It doesnt make sense, that we don't own everyone of these wells over there. Bush is in Idle mode right now, just hoping he can skate through the next year and a half and not have any major problems over there. I'm afraid he doesn't want to pull out of there so that people can say "we told you so".

Let me see if I got this right. We need to leave now, but we also need to own the oil after we leave? And just who do you think would own that oil if we left? The Iraqi's? Not for long they wouldn't. Iran would own it within a year. Then what do we do when they cut the oil off from the US? Go to war?
 

badams270

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
41
Re: Why we're there...

Are we supposed to just sit over there and keep wasting money? Why does the US need to tell these countries what political society they need to have? If they wanted a democracy they would be making an effort to work towards that. If we are going to be in Iraq for the next 10 years like Bush says its going to take why don't we control these oil wells? The oil we take from Iraq could be used to help fund this so-called war. And yes we need to pull these guys out.
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Why we're there...

We can't just "take their oil", use some common sense. And if we have to stay for 10 years, we have to stay. Are we still in Bosnia? How many years has that been? Still in Japan, Korea and Germany? How many years have we been in those places?
If we leave now, it creates a power vacuum that would be filled by folks that don't have the best intentions for the west. Hind site is always 20/20, but we have to stay and finish the job.
NO ONE wants to see are young brave men and women get hurt!!! But THEY understand they have a mission and THEY want to finish the mission. I've been in their situation and it's not nice, but we NEVER would have stopped until the mission was complete. These folks are NOT quitters and I thank the Lord for them and the sacrifices they make.
 

badams270

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
41
Re: Why we're there...

Yeah, lets use common sense. We use the oil to fund the war, and keep our prices at home to a reasonable rate. Why do we as taxpayers have to fund a war that will never have an outcome, as vietnam did. I to have been in their place, as a matter of fact I would have been the guys searching out IED's as I was part of the EOD. I dont' think Iraq came to us and said please force democracy on us. Bush had 1 person in mind when we went in there. He just needed an excuse, and bin laden gave him the excuse. Now, we will use iraq and a platform to attack Iran. Hope everyone is prepared for it to get alot worse before it gets better.
 

badams270

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
41
Re: Why we're there...

No one said anything about the guys over there being quitters. They are their to do a job until told to leave. I feel for the guys over there, I know the heat, and area personally. We rely on our president to steer us in the right direction and he is way off course right now. As for the long haul, are we still in Vietnam? We are in those other places because they are strategic points around the world not because we are helping them rebuild still. Do you honestly think we are helping Cuba rebuild anything?
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Why we're there...

"..We are in those other places because they are strategic points around the world..."

And you don't think Iraq is a strategic point? Ya know, in the mid-east? I wonder how much oil comes out from mid-east?
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Why we're there...

One of the biggest no productive blunders occuring on the planet is right here among the same old righty vs lefty agenda saturated comments that never change the mindset of one another.Have fun,and carry on .:rolleyes:
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Why we're there...

So it's a lefty vs righty agenda that dictates "why we are there"?
I submit that it's much more than that to those who are responding in this thread.
There is so much pent-up anger on both sides, that it's hard to exhibit restraint on this day of grief. But i for one will try.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Why we're there...

One of the biggest no productive blunders occuring on the planet is right here among the same old righty vs lefty agenda saturated comments that never change the mindset of one another.Have fun,and carry on .:rolleyes:

I for one can state I have no agenda. I only want the bad guys to lose and the good guys to win. Right now, the bad guys are islamic extremists. Also right now, Iraq and Afganistan are two areas where we are engaging the enemy. Pulling out of either area makes no sense at all.

Forget all the hype, forget all the political BS, forget why we went there in the first place, forget all the idiot media, forget all that crap and think in terms of today and tommorow. Use your brain and anyone can see that we should definately stay in Iraq.

Ken
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Why we're there...

Well it seems I must have struck a nerve with my comments.Hey, it don't have to be a bad thing to have an agenda.We all have agendas.My remarks were more intended to bring attention to the fact that after years in some cases that the same group of people,many times including myself ,have hashed out their interpretation of political topics to include military involvement,and yet it never seems to unite a common understanding but instead perpetuates disagreement and many times hard feelings.Not unlike politicians in the national scene.Actually it seems the common citizen has more genuine passion about things as their chosen political supportee.Soooo, I thought I'd mention it.:cool:
 
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