Why we're there...

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Why we're there...

ob, I didnt take it personally, just wanted everyone to know where I stand.

I agree with you, many people here on both sides beat the party drum without thinking for themselves.

Ken

 

[badams270]

Re: Why we're there...

We know who the bad guys are, But this is a unconventional war. We can't tell the difference between honest people and people that want to kill us. We will never change these pepole, they have lived like this forever. Who are we to force our democracy on anybody? Not even 10 years will be enough. I have been to kuwait, and yes they had great success, but the people wanted change. Like I said before Bush is just in Idle mode, hoping nothing dramatic happens in the next 18 months. I actually have a few months left on my inactive reserves, and pray they don't decide to reactivate us.

 

[ob]

Re: Why we're there...

That's good Ken because my initial comments were never intended to discredit any particular opinion but rather to point out that what seems clear to many seems either genuinely unclear to others or is so party driven that the ends of human understanding become a cut and paste competition that rarely if ever results in a cohesive agreement.It's politics ,turned bullheadedness,and it seems to reek in todays society.Sometimes I can get into it,and sometimes not.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Why we're there...

Well it seems I must have struck a nerve with my comments.Hey, it don't have to be a bad thing to have an agenda.

You may have taken my usual frankness as a nerve being struck. Not in the least. The nerve was struck on 09/11/01.
I actually agree with you, OB. When one stands so strongly for anything, the oppposition standing diametrically as strong, the debate can quickly decay into flame throwing. On a personal level, this Memorial day was a bit more emotional than usual for some reason too. I haven't figured out why yet. Perhaps it's the opposition's growing acceptance. Maybe it's too much time on one TV channel all weekend (The military channel). I dunno. But Anti-American sentiment has me on edge in addition to all of it.
Everything is kewl tho.
You have a valid point IMHO.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Why we're there...

We will never change these pepole, they have lived like this forever. Who are we to force our democracy on anybody? Not even 10 years will be enough.

That's what we thought about Germany and Japan, and last time I checked they were both democracies. We also stayed in Germany 50 years.

This country simply doesn't have the resolve it did in WW2. We were attacked then, we were attacked on 9-11. We fought to win in WW2, we are fighting the democrats since 9-11.

 

[QC]

Re: Why we're there...

This thread illustrates what is wrong with many DC threads. We collectively leave out facts to make points and win a so-called debate . . .

Why we are there now has nothing to do with why we went. If you insist on connecting the two, then you cannot leave 10 - 15 years of history out of the discussion . . . What decisions we make today on Iraq should be made only with today's info . . . all of it! They are killing each other, and we to at least some degree are responsible for that, leaving doesn't fix it, it makes it worse. The Middle East is one f'ed up place and we need a presence for our security. If you do not believe that our interests are directly affected by the situation in Iraq you have simply been asleep for the last few years.

BTW, if you want to know how stupid I am, the fact is we already won. Yes, when Bush said "Mission Accomplished" (poor choice of words). If the definition of winning now includes the complete control and security of countries after they have been defeated, then we will need to rewrite every history book that I have ever read . . . I simply do not understand why even Bush has started to refer to "when we are victorious" etc. Yes, I know we have a bunch of work to do, I think everyone agrees with that. Some think we can get that work done without being there, but I guess those people know of some new teleporting-imagery-defense-control-policing system that I am not aware of . . .

 

[PW2]

Re: Why we're there...

All I can say is that if the roles were reversed, and this was Bill Clinton's war, and he was using our military to attempt to be peacekeepers while getting 3,000 of them killed and who knows how many wounded in the middle of a civil war, You folks on the right would be apoplectic about the improper use of the military, and the fact that he was weakening our military against the real enemy we face and dramatically reducing our response capability.

And you know what? I would agree with you

 

[QC]

Re: Why we're there...

Well PW2, I disagree with you . . . nya, nya, nyah . . . Conservatives in this country have a much stronger history of supporting the Military. Start a new thread if you want to debate that.

 

[badams270]

Re: Why we're there...

So, lets use the same techniques we did in ww2. We won because we nuked them, remember. Lets turn Iraq into glass and call it good. We are fighting because of 9-11 yes, But what did Iraq have to do with 9-11, nothing. We are in Afganistan because of 9-11. Bush got who he wanted, now its time for us to go. And, why did we not stay in the first gulf war, after we completely destroyed a caravan of saddams' army leaving kuwait.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Why we're there...

Re-read what slick willy, al bore, lil nancy, traitor kerry, the French, The Russians, the Egyptians, the Italians....... all said about Saddam WMD. Bad intel no doubt. But none the less we are there and can't leave until the job is done. If we do, I hope your not where the next attack occurs, because it will. Our gutless leader of the 90's, who ran like a chickenship from Somillia embolded bin laden, and that helped 9/11 become a fact of history. When do you think the plan of 9/11 was hatched? Long before President Bush was elected.

 

[badams270]

Re: Why we're there...

Hopefully there won't be other attacks, but what we all don't want to think about is that these people are already here in the US and are just idle right now. There have been attempts made I'm sure that the government isn't revealing to the public. How long were the hijackers in america? Quite awhile, long enough for us to finance their way through flying school. Did any of these people come from Iraq? So, lets put these people on a watch list and not watch them. We used afganhistan as a platform for Iraq, and now I'm sure we will use Iraq as a platform to attack Iran. Should we go into Iran and try to force democracy on them to? So, we can double the amount of money we're wastig now? We would need more troops for that, where will they come from? Draft?

 

[ArtB]

Re: Why we're there...

Badam270 says "We would need more troops for that, where will they come from? Draft?"

I used to favor universal military training but not any more. I don't propose to give "W" any more human resources to misuse.