Why?

[modernrocketry]

Re: Why?

After readling everyone's posts and opinions, I think the problem is the father for not knowing his daugher
1. Had a boyfriend
2. had a boyfriend for over a year
3. was sexually active.

Had he know these things, he would have known the boy, thus eliminating the swingin of the pipe... or at least thinking it was an intruder Maybe he would have still swung the pipe.

Next step for Dad,
1. find out what your daughter is doing every minute of every day.
2. get your daughter tested for STD's
3. get her on the pill.

 

[captquest]

Re: Why?

We're all missing the relevant point. The relationship to the girl is irrelevant. It's irrelevant that the kid and the daughter had been having sex for a year.

The relevant facts:

1) The homeowner heard noises, thus having justified reason to believe his home had been broken into. He had no reason to suspect someone else had been invited in.
2) He armed himself and went to investigate. He found an unidentified naked man standing in his daughter's bedroom.
3) He had no reason to suspect there was anything consensual; the first and logical assumption is that an intruder had removed his clothes and was about to rape his daughter, so immediate defensive action was warranted.

We do not know if he could determine if the naked man was armed or had any offensive capability.

Thus, I would think the inherent right to defend one's home would preempt any assault charges. However, it does not appear that justice is being served here.

One other consideration: Not sure what the state laws are where this happened, but in Michigan the age of consent is 16. So if the daughter is under 16, she is considered incapable of giving consent, and any sex under that age is considered statutory rape. There are many, many cases of BF-GF having sex, in some cases their ages are only a few months apart. But one is over age, the other underage. So there are many kids convicted of unlawful sexual conduct and permanently required to register as a sex offender just because of loving sex with their BF/GF. Just? Probably not, but that's the law. In this case, if the girl was under age, it doesn't matter if she wanted her BF to have sex with her or not.

There was a situation reported last week in the local Kalamazoo Gazette. In the middle of the night, an upper-middle-age couple heard someone going through their car(s). The car(s) are in their driveway behind their home. The man gets his handgun, for which he is properly licensed (Michigan is a shall-issue state) and confronts the intruder. The wife calls 911.

There was a struggle, and the homeowner shoots the intruder in the leg, temporarily incapacitating him. Unfortunately, as a direct result of the struggle, the homeowner suffers a heart attack and dies.

So what happened?

In some jurisdictions, the homeowner and wife would have been charged with assault. But in this case, it seems justice is being served. The intruder has been charged with manslaughter in the commission of a crime. This just happened, so I'm sure it'll be months before the case is finalized.

You really need to think a bit more about when to use lethal force or you could wind up murdering some one needlessly. I used to study case history of bad shootings. There was a case of a man who heard noise from his daughter's bedroom. He armed himself with a 357 and walked in. He saw a figure of a man in the window and shot him to death. It turned out to be a 17 year old neighbor that had been invited by his daughter. They were friends of his family. I don't think he felt very good about it. Another case of a man that saw thieves in his yard. He called 911, then armed himself with a shotgun and went outside. When he saw a stranger in the shrubs he fired. He killed the police officer that responded to his call. Determine the danger and identify the target!

 

[zach103]

Re: Why?

. When guys avoid the father,,,,that means they only have one intention for your daughter. IF they had meant to be a true BF/GF, then knowing the parents would be in order..

i still agree with this.. its completely true. im 19 and ive even done that. . my gf now her parents love me.. first thing i do when i walk in the door is go and talk to the parents. . some of my friends that have "friends with benefits" have never met the parents and try to keep it that way.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Why?

After readling everyone's posts and opinions, I think the problem is the father for not knowing his daugher

You have a good point, there.

Another thing that occurred to me. The folks saying that they show their daughter's boyfriend their gun collection, or threaten to kill them, or are cleaning a gun when said boyfriend comes to pick up the little princess are not taking a great position there or it never happened.

Teenaged girls are terminally embarrassed by their parents in the first place. If Daddy did any of those things, I'm sure just about any girl would be very certain not to bring her new beau home to meet Daddy. Instead, she'd be more likely to sneak around.

It's a fine line parents have to draw. Of course they don't want their daughters (or sons) to be sexually active. Despite their wishes, an awful lot of kids do it anyhow. Driving a kid away doesn't help the situation.

I suspect that most of that bravado is false, anyhow. But if someone's really contemplating pulling a stunt like that on a daughter's date, they shouldn't be surprised if their daughter never brings another boy home again.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Why?

This is starting to sound a little like those counties where they strip both children, drag them into the city square naked, and stone them to death for shaming the family.

?Honor Murder? they call it.

It is usually the father, or the brothers who feel that their honor can only be restored be killing the young man, or often the couple.

We are seeing quite a bit of this now in Europe, but not from the Europeans, the families are almost entirely from the Middle East, Turkey, India, or Pakistan.

Maybe a little ?Honor Murder? in America would teach these kids a good sex education lesson.

No, I think not. I think you and your new europion residents should stay in Germany. There you can show them the way to your daughters bedroom or to the street and you can be the teacher.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Why?

No, I think not. I think you and your new europion residents should stay in Germany. There you can show them the way to your daughters bedroom or to the street and you can be the teacher.

I'm not German, I am American.

Either you didn't understand the sarcastic, ironic tone of my last line, or those new European neighbors you are afraid of, are more like you, than the Europeans. Sex for these old, not new, neighbors is taboo, it is not discussed with their children, they have to go to the streets to learn.

That was the point of my post up to now, if you read them all. The Europeans have a different method of teaching their children about the changes that come with young adulthood, they communicate with them.

Communicating means talking AND listening.

I think this is a case of this man not knowing how to communicate with his daughter, and swinging a pipe in attempted murder on a young boy later, to make up for his own failure as a father.

Either his daughter is too afraid to come to him to discuss her life, and the changes it is bringing as she becomes an adult, or the daughter is be pretty easy to lead in directions the father doesn't want her to go.

Do these young women not have a mind of their own to make decisions alone, or are all these decisions made by other people for them, releasing them of all self responsibility?

If this is the case they will have problems the rest of their lives being talked into doing things they shouldn't be doing.

Inventing a story after the fact to cover the fathers actions is not going to work if I am on his jury, and I might just be, because I won't be as you suggested, staying in Europe.

I know this sounds stupid and simple, but I would have just tuned the light on asked them what the **** do they think they are doing. Then deposited the young man out the front door, without his clothes. Then called the police, and said, there is a naked young boy running around my yard playing some kind of High School prank.

Then I would have a long talk with my daughter.

I think I'll check out of here for awhile. Maybe when I come back this post will be deleted, it is going nowhere fast.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Why?

of course offering the young lad a ride to his house sans clothes might be fun as well. I'm sure his parents would like to know what he's up to when he claims to be at little johnny's house as well.

 

[witenite0560]

Re: Why?

This last one is the best thought yet!! Good thinking.

As to this: I suspect that most of that bravado is false, anyhow. But if someone's really contemplating pulling a stunt like that on a daughter's date, they shouldn't be surprised if their daughter never brings another boy home again.

I don't consider that "bravado" and I have done it. But, I live in a community where almost everyone hunts, fishes and is very outdoor oriented, so it's not unusual for someone to be doing such things. I didn't do it as a threat, it's more of a joke around here. But, it does get a point across and I know my daughters, so they don't take offense to it.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Why?

In my opinion, if the Dad had subdued the kid with a fist or two and held him till the cops arrived, he'd have been better off. The pipe is considered a "lethal weapon" and the court likely sees it as undue force. Especially, once it is apparent that he was not uninvited, by the daughter.
But, that's why when my daughters had dates pick them up, I made it a point to be sharpening a hunting knife or cleaning a gun.
If you use lethal force, you have to prove that your life or someone else's was at stake.

No, you have to prove that you had a REASONABLE belief that your or someone else's life was at stake.

Reasonable, being, would a reasonable person put in a certain situation be likely to believe that they or another person was in danger of coming to physical harm.

If a reasonable person saw a naked strange man standing in his daughter's room, would he be UNREASONABLE to have a belief that harm was about to come to him or his daughter.

A lot of variables will come into play here. Does his daughter have a history of sneaking guys into her house? Was the daughter sitting naked on the bed? Did the daughter appear to be sleeping? BIG difference in the perception of what might have been going on, don't ya think?

No matter what the other variables though, the fact that his daughter is under the age of consent, means that he could have a very reasonable belief that a rape was about to be committed.

 

[mickjetblue]

Re: Why?

Hear! Hear!

It sounds like this is a hung jury.

The AP story released only a bare minimum of facts, and with such an emotional
story, imaginations have run wild on a variety of tangents.

Maybe some more facts will be released, unless the innocent must be protected,
that is, if anybody is innocent in this story.

 

[CN Spots]

Re: Why?

of course offering the young lad a ride to his house sans clothes might be fun as well. I'm sure his parents would like to know what he's up to when he claims to be at little johnny's house as well.

THAT would be the night that he get's pulled over for a busted tail light... with a naked boy in the car with him!

 

[gonefishie]

Re: Why?

THAT would be the night that he get's pulled over for a busted tail light... with a naked boy in the car with him!

I think I've seen that scene in a movie before The boy lied his arse off and the driver got the beating of a lifetime.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Why?

THAT would be the night that he get's pulled over for a busted tail light... with a naked boy in the car with him!

that would suck now wouldn't it?

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Why?

Ummm, a year of sneaking in?? Come on, how oblivious is this guy. Something doesnt make sense. Then to just haul off an bash the kid in the head without investigating the situation... even a little?? Ya, I'd say an arrest is in order. Defend your family as you will but attempted homicide on a 15 year old kid whom had been having consentual sex in your home for a entire year is a crime.... leave it to the jury.