wiring question

[sid the squid]

Hey everyone, I am putting an addition on my house, and because it is visible from the road I pulled a building permit. There is a first time for everything I guess. My question for all of you electrical experts is how many duplex wall outlets can I run on a single circuit. The addition is enlarging two bedrooms and I need 6 outlets in one room and 7 outlets in the other. The rooms are approx 70 feet from the breaker box. I was thinking of running one 15 amp circuit for each room, or could I just run one circuit for both rooms since there will not be anything except maybe a tv and a couple of lamps plugged in. Thanks for your help.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: wiring question

Dr. Squid, no more than 10 outlets per circuit. You need two circuit breakers for your application. Depending on your location, you may need Arc-Fault breakers.

 

[one more cast]

Re: wiring question

Will 15 amp pass code? I always run 20 amp for receptacles and 15 amp for lights. My skill saw can trip a 15 amp breaker.

 

[rattana]

Re: wiring question

15 Amp breaker for 14AWG wire<br />20 Amp breaker for 12AWG wire<br />30 Amp breaker for 10AWG wire<br />You don't want the wire to get overloaded with too much current passing through it.<br />You always have to follow your local electrical codes to pass inspection.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: wiring question

Methinks yer gonna need to install two 20 amp arc-fault circuits in order to pass electrical inspection. But that depends on your inspector and your local code requirements.<br /><br />This is probably a better question for the local electrical inspector who will need to give the final blessing than a boat forum...

 

[crab bait]

Re: wiring question

the natl'elec code say 12 wire ( 20 amp ) in kitchens, dining room, laundry.. <br /><br />15 amp is fine for the rest..<br /><br />that bein' said,, most nowdays wire all recepticales in 12 wire.. lites in 14 wire..

 

[KRS]

Re: wiring question

Do they use UBC, IBC, or another form of BC?

 

[sid the squid]

Re: wiring question

I appreciate all the input, I am going to go with 1 15 amp circuit for each room. I was thinking of feeding the first plug in each circuit with 10 wire and then using 12 from there on.

 

[crab bait]

Re: wiring question

you so don't get it..

 

[surlyjoe]

Re: wiring question

like crabby says, theres no reason to run bigger than 14ga. on a 15 amp circut, the breaker will trip before the wire gets hot. run 2 - 20 amp circuts with 12ga. and then you can do the switch legs in 14ga. thats gonna be the cheapest and most "correct" way to go..

 

[divo]

Re: wiring question

" run 2 - 20 amp circuts with 12ga. and then you can do the switch legs in 14ga. thats gonna be the cheapest and most "correct" way to go.."<br /><br />How is #14 wire on a 20 amp circuit "correcct"?

 

[Ron G]

Re: wiring question

What they said,you can call the electrical inspector and get a pre-wire consulting for $20 i think thats what it is here,ask him the questions and he will tell ya what he wants and how he wants it.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: wiring question

You guys are making this toooooo complicated. Keep the $20 and donate it to your local charity cause here is the answer. The minimun wire size allowed by the NEC is 14 guage copper on a 15amp. breaker. However you may also use a larger size wire 12 guage. With the larger wire you have a choice of using a 15amp or a 20amp. breaker. But if you do use a 20amp breaker, any wire connected to it must be 12 guage or larger.<br /><br />The NEC does not permit more than 10 plugs/recepticles per circuit. Because you have more than 10, you must use at least two circuits. The question now is wether to use ARC-FAULT breaks or not. The NEC does not require the use of ARC-FAULT breakers but insome area the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" may require you to use it. If in doubt, spend the extra cash for the extra protection. DO NOT USE ARC-FAULT CIRCUIT BEAKERS FOR LIGHTING APPLICATION. It will trip the breaker everytime you turn on the light.<br /><br />NOTE: As said above, the minimun wire you can use is 14 guage copper. I would recomend you pull 12 guage wire and use two 15amp. ARC-FAULT breakers. One for each room. And an additional 15 amp.circuit for your lighting loads.<br /><br />Legal Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, but i play one on this forum. <br /><br />Credit: EE USC class of 97

 

[Mark42]

Re: wiring question

I agree with GQ. You also need to get yourself some home wiring books and follow the examples. There are rules about HOW and WHERE the wire can be run. Current book show accepted methods. <br /><br />One thing I question that GQ stated is this: <br /><br />

Because you have more than 10, you must use at least two circuits.

This I have not found explicitly stated in the NEC. But I have found references to up to 15 outlets. If anyone can post the 10 outlet reference, please do. <br /><br />Also note that outlets rated 15 amp (the standard outlet, about $0.75 each) are allowed to be used on 20 amp circuits AS LONG AS THERE IS MORE THAN ONE OUTLET ON THE CIRCUIT. That will save you the $3 - $5 cost of 20 amp outlets. <br /><br />Again, get some books. The library is free. Could save your life, or at least a bunch of problems with the inspector.<br /><br />Edit:<br /><br />Here are some links you should read to get an idea of what is involved:<br /><br /> Home Wiring USA <br /> Code Check

 

[dhammann]

Re: wiring question

NEC states 1-1/2 amp per outlet for residential bedrooms, thats 10 for a 15 amp circuit and 13 for a 20 amp. A 15 amp circuit is generaly safer because it takes less fault current to trip. Most (chinese)lamp and appliance cords will turn cherry red before tripping a 20 amp breaker!!<br />The ARC fault breaker is a Godsend for fire prevention....use it!

 

[crab bait]

Re: wiring question

MARK is right.. the 1 1/2 amp rule is only for tally load calculations.. <br /><br />10 to 12 max is an unwritten rule for most electric workers.. <br /><br />mark is also right on the 15 amp recepticals... but is also wrong.. <br /><br />a standard/regular duplex outlet is considered two outlets .. so one 15 amp duplex receptical on a 20 amp circut is fine..

 

[JustMrWill]

Re: wiring question

Ok...so let me see if I have this straight...<br /><br />I have 1 20 amp breaker...12# wire runs from that to a junction box in my "workshop" area in the basement I am finishing. I should run 12# wire from that to the 5 outlets in this area and I should use 20amp outlets. <br /><br />Some questions:<br /><br />a. I am installing a light switch for overhead shop light...this will be tied into this curcuit..can I use 14# wire and a 15amp outlet for shop light? or does it also have to be 12# and 20amp? <br /><br />b. Next room over will be my "fitness" center...overhead light and maybe a stereo...I am planning on putting 3 outlets in this room and was going to put it on the same circuit as shop area...do these have to be run with 12# and 20amp outlets? or can I "tie into" curcuit with 14# and 15amp outlets?<br /><br />Thanks in advance...sorry for hi-jacking...just working on my project when I read this ..now want clarification before I do anything else. <br /><br />-JMW

 

[crab bait]

Re: wiring question

every question you asked is answered in this thread..

 

[butlp]

Re: wiring question

GQ, I agree with everything you have said except for the statement not to include lighting on the AFCI circuit. There is a problem with your AFCI if it trips every time you turn a light on! <br />In Canada it is code to have AFCI on all plug outlets in a bedroom and it is also common to have a three-way half switched outlet on either side of a bed. These outlets will be used for bedside table lights and must be protected by the AFCI. I personally have this set-up and have never tripped the AFCI switching a light ON or OFF.<br />As long as you are not exceeding the 10 outlets per circuit I think you will find that it is OK to feed lights from the AFCI.<br /><br />One More Cast "My skill saw can trip a 15 amp breaker" I think it might be time to invest in a new skill saw or consider cordless!!!!!!

 

[18rabbit]

Re: wiring question

I went thru the whole arc-fault (AFCI) thing last year. In my area the 2002 NEC, where arc-faults on bedroom receptacles is required, wasn’t implemented yet, it is now, but we still aren’t at the current NEC. Like the Canadian in Mexico said, the current NEC (may or may not be adopted yet in your area) requires AFC are on all outlets in a bedroom. Note: an outlet is a wall receptacle, a light fixture, and/or a smoke detector…anywhere electrical power is brought into the bedroom. The new NEC has all of it arc-fault protected, except wall heaters in a bedroom are exempted from AFCI. <br /><br />(1) Arc-fault circuits don’t work out too well when installed on a circuit with a shared neutral. (2) Arc-fault breakers often result in a lot of nuisance tripping if there is a plasma display (TV) plugged in anywhere on that circuit.<br /><br />Also, if you use 12-gauge wire for the wall plugs as Crab Bait suggests (good suggestion!) AND you install a 20-amp breaker, you will be required to have 20-amp receptacles, not the normal 15-amp receptacles.<br /><br />Edit: worth looking into: what is a bedroom? You probably don’t get to make that decision. In my area, any room with a closet is considered a bedroom…not because it is a bedroom, but because it can be used as one.