Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

[MaineFishin]

In the process of replacing my impella "my first" the place I do my marine business will not touch a motor over 15 years old they did not sell.

My 1989 Yamaha 225 excel is new to me, I sea trialed last year and it ran well but the owner had not changed the impella for the length of time he owned the boat. I have two questions, the manual speaks of an item I can not see.

"Unclip the pivot tube from the swivel bracket?? What and where is this?

I removed the trim tab, drained the lower unit fluid, went to the first of the six bolts holding on the lower unit it turned and released. the second bolt "turned" but felt funny, the same with the remainng bolts. I sprayed with liquid wrench waited a couple of hours and went back and snapped one bolt off. I imagine the remaining 4 will also snap.

Will applying heat help?
Will a hand held torch with Mepps Gas get hot enough to do the trick?
How much heat can be applied before I get into trouble.

Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Hope to fix the boat this week, my son and family are visiting form Hawaii Friday this week and I would like to take them fishing.

Your insights are appreciated!

MaineFishin "not fishin"

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Mapp gas might work. It has to get hot enough to crystallize the aluminum oxide corrosion. I've never found a penetrating oil that would work.

I use acetylene, but you better know that it will make aluminum disappear if you hold the torch in place too long.

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Well, it seems it is worth a try with the Mapp Gas. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[cfauvel]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

I feel your pain

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

How easily will the lower unit drop off if all bolts are snapped? The first one that snapped is flush with the housing edge but I think the lower portion is not threaded which may allow for the unit to be removed, any thoughts?

 

[jeffersondodson561]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

I am not sure what pivot tube means but maybe it said pitot tube, which would be the speedo tube records the water pressure entering the gearcase and sends this pressure to the speedometer. It is a small diameter rubber hose in front of the gearcase running up the midsection. Has a quick disconnect fitting to be removed. As far as the heat, you will have to heat it up enough to blister the paint. You may want to put your box end wrench over the bolt and hit the box end wrench with a heavy hammer. This will shock the bolt a little and assist with removal as well. Just make sure it is not a Snap-On wrench or you are not emotionally attached to the wrench.

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

If they will snap off at the head, it won't be bad to get them out afterwards. The worst one will be the hidden bolt under the trim tab. It's a long bolt with a smooth shaft before the threads. It can corrode and bind in that hole it goes through. No guarantee that they'll snap off at the head.

A wrench in place as you heat is a good idea, but be careful of hitting it with a hammer.
Sometimes I'll heat the head of the bolt and hope the heat will transfer to the corrosion. It sometimes works.

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Thanks for the info, I will try some heat after work today, I am starting to cross my fingers now!

 

[cfauvel]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Would an impact wrench set at lowest setting be better than a rachet with long handle, as the impact wrench is delivering short blows, rather than a handled rachet which would be putting a constant steady force on the bolt head?

It should be easy enough to let the lower unit fall down with all bolts snapped off, but getting the bolts out of he midsection is NOT going to be easy,in fact I think even worse, since you'll have to drill them out....obviously the stainless steele has fused to the aluminum.

Ick

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Don't think I could get the right angle with an impact wrench so I moved forward with the heat and short turns. The result is the bolt under the anode is loose but doesn't drop out, 2 outer bolts are out whole, 1 snapped off at the outer edge, 1 removed 1/2 way then snapped off at the threads(I think there will be enough of a nub to grab) and 2 snapped off flush.
Lots of work left, I have not dropped the lower unit yet since I need to smoothe the bolt that broke on the outer edge it has a bit of a lip.
The lower unit doesn't want to drop off, how much force does it take to have it release.


The bolts all sarted to turn but were bound up, I would turn an 1/8 of a turn off and then a 1/16 of a turn back. it was a fight the whole way. I don't have a good feeling with an easyout on the two that are broke off flush, any suggestions?

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Like the rest of us here, I feel sorry for you. I occasionally turn a wrench on these things, MERCS, OMC, VOLVO outdrive and can say beyond a doubt that YAMAHA is the worst, hands down. I have one still in the box and am certain I could open it up and start breaking bolts. Am afraid to put a wrench on them any more.
Looks like what you thought was going to be a simple job will be a project. Naturally you want to do the job right and remove the broken studs but expect every bolt to snap. By all means try but know your limitations and know when to quit. In doing the job right, you will break drill bits and easyouts. When you get fed up, keep in the back of your mind a PLAN B or GOBI DESERT METHOD. Drill and tap your own holes, no reason you have to use the original ones. Keep in mind that although the bolts are holding the gear box to the strut, their main purpose is to handle the twisting force which is a shearing action on the bolts. If you have doubts add an extra stud or two by cutting the head off a bolt and have them act as dowels.
I know this sound drastic, just keep it in the back of your mind. Same around here, A lot of mechanics will not put a wrench on an older motor. Is this a fresh or salt water motor, not that it seems to make a difference with YAMAHAS? regards FRED

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Appreciate the thoughts and sharing of experiences, drilling my own holes is interesting; is it possible to drill and retap the existing holes to a larger dia.? I will find out tonight if the studs I can grab will come out this leaves 2 which are sheared flush.

Is there a jig available that will help keep me aligned as I drill these out?

Thanks!

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Stay with the heat when trying to remove the studs. Seems like mapp gas wasn't hot enough. I've only used that once and that was on a small bolt. My preference has always been acetylene, but I'm well practiced in heating aluminum with it.

Try to grind or file a flat spot on the two opposite sides of the studs. This'll give your "quality" vise grips a good place to grab. The aluminum oxide is binding in the threads, not hot enough, but now that you'll be closer to the threads, it still might work.

For those that broke off flush, try to grind a flat spot as close to dead center as you can, then center punch the center of the broken shaft to start the drill bit. Start with as small a bit as you can hold steady, maybe 1/8. Then drill bigger by one or two sizes of drill bit at a time until you've almost got to the size of the bolt. Left hand twist bits are useful when doing this. They'll be drilling in the direction of removal, because you'll need to have your drill in reverse for them to cut.

Easy outs are not recommended. They'e extremely hard and brittle and to break one of them off in the hole will really make you hate life. I've had good luck using a tap to get the final bits of thread out, providing that your hole is centered.

Pine Island mentioned that his worst ones were Yamaha. Mine is the Suzuki. The only bolts I ever had to heat, after only two years out of the box.

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Hinesight is always better than foresight, I wish I would have posted a "what if" prior to starting and I may not be as deep in this hole as I am now. Maintenance manager where I work suggested the same thing with drilling out and chasing the threads, offered to make a pilot bushing for me. Same diameter as the hole in the removable section of the lower unit with a hole centered in it, I am not going to pass on that option.

I will work the studs that are gripable tonight and move to the drilling tomorrow. Thanks for the insight.

What type of force does it take to seperate the lower unit?

Thanks again!

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

I just did a 150 Yamaha water pump. All it took was a few taps with a rubber mallet to start it separating.

Look at the forward area of the lower unit and see if you cab spot the small hose/tube coming out and going up the midsection. That's the pitot tube that goes to the speedometer. There should be a splice just outside the lower unit where you can disconnect it before starting to separate the unit.

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

My question to you is; Would it have been worth 85.00 to have someone, who has done this many times before, do it?

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Heck yes but the place I do business will not touch old engines they did not sell. I would pay 185.00 have it accomplished but every place that might do it and take a piece of my wallet has a waiting list. My fault I did not start it earlier and my son is visiting from Hawaii Friday and his visits are once every other year, I'd like to fish with him.

 

[MaineFishin]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

Folks,

Thanks for all the insights; I finially got the lower unit to drop and when it did I had four (4) nubs sticking out of the bolt holes. With heat directly on the nubs and a wrap of the hammer all are now free and this part of my adventure is over many, many thanks for all the ideas! Look to my next thread of replacing the impella, my book is vague and I (or the impella) have issues!

 

[stickerhard]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

center punch them and use a left hand drill a small one and work your way up 7-10 time it will unscrew right out

 

[Bob Gilvary]

Re: Yahama 225 Excel Snapped one bolt and others feel the same.

When you put it back together, grease the threads on every bolt, even the 4 bolts holding holding the water pump. You also might want to run a dry bolt up each hole to clean out the dust, then blow it out. If you don't have air, use anything from an aerosol can, like carb cleaner, starting fluid, or any spray lubricant.

It's those dealers that like the newer engines that make me money.