Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

[Bigprairie1]

I've been thinking about this issue for a while so I wanted to put it out to you Iboaters to shed some light and get some perspective on a huge issue currently out there these days and certainly going on up around these parts right now.
Ok: If your teenage daughter or son made a HUGE discretionary mistake and got themselves in serious legal hot water........would you (upon seeing the irrefutable video evidence of the event as well as their very clear participation) force them to take full responsibility, come what may for their mistake, or lawyer up to protect them from harm's way (so called).
The background on this is the Vancouver Riots from last June after the Stanley Cup and the clock ticking on charges now pending on well over 50-60 teens (and more to come).
For many of these kids (adults?) this was their first legal mistake....more or less and the parents do not want their future (or present) impacted. As a result a lot of parents are lawyering up to keep the charges at bay.
Now, most of this riot was all caught on video by about 1000 camera's and then posted on social networking sites. Immediately this was done by a lot of teens for fun and is part of their culture of communication. However, the same images are then submittable as evidence against them...which they may have not considered.
One of the teens was a 17-18 yr old high caliber athlete who lost his scholarship as a result of the media that found him and was suspended from a national sports team for 2 years. His parents were working overtime to get him off the hook so he could continue his schooling/training etc without interuption.
Another teen (19 year old girl) was fired the monday morning after the riots when she showed up for work as a receptionist for a well known car dealership. Apparently somebody had caught her on video or some of the pics running out of one of the many smashed up stores carrying $10 worth of...who knows. The owner of the business told her that was not the kind of impression they were trying to put across to people who came to them for business.
Anyways, this has been discussed heavily in the media around these parts. Many of the parents still regard their teens as 'kids' however the community and legal system see these people as young adults. At least one parent of one of the kids said the legal age should be raised to 20 instead of the current age (17yrs old..I think).
Some of the parents who are currently working to run 'interference' for their kids said that the mayhem and events that their kids participated really weren't that different than the average bush party...they just happened to be doing the partying in downtown Vancouver rather than in a remote bush clearing or similar. (good point). A lot of these kids never had a criminal record and for all intensive purposes had never been in trouble before.
Some of the parents moved quickly and made their kids go downtown and turn themselves in....on their own. Some of thinking that this first group of kids should be given a bit of leniency for stepping up before ultimately getting caught given the thousands of hours of video tape that has been slowly tracking them down one by one by one. (interesting idea about the leniency?).
Many people have said that this is more of a parenting problem than a teen problem and as a result a lot of modern teens simply have not been held accountable for their actions within the community...which is an interesting point. This is where the idea of extending the legal age to 20 comes into play....given the fact that a modern 17 year old may not have a mature sense of responsibility just yet in comparison when from the time the laws were drafted.
Bare in mind this does not include ALL teens but seems to include quite a few....certainly enough to make this a very big and rising social issue.
So....back to the initial question if this was your teen daughter or sons first 'big mistake' would you hold them responsible to the community or move to protect them from the legal system. Or other thoughts on this?
Ok, I have few more thoughts on this but I wanted to put this question out there to see some perspective on this.
All Good
BP
....sorry for the wordiness guys, I was trying to be economic in my thoughts here...but missed the mark I guess.

 

[soggy_feet]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Well, I was in my 20's the first and only time I was arrested.. for driving in a state that my license was suspended in, without knowing it was suspended..

Dad paid bail, I was on my own after that. But that was in the realms of adulthood, and on an entirely different level than a riot.

If I had kids, yeah, I think i'd do what I could to protect them.

Laws are laws, but how often is it really in the best interest of society that people be punished/fined, and how often is it that it's a quick buck back into the governments pocket? (at least from my state-side view)

Going back to my situation, I was arrested and held in jail until my bail was paid, then fined because NY screwed up some paperwork related to a license I really didn't have anything to do with since I live in Vermont.
And then I hear about 30 years ago when so and so was a teen and passed out drunk at a stoplight until a cop came along, woke them up, and told them to get home safely. I must be a hellova liability with what I did....

I maintain a us vs. them mentality when it comes to the courts and law enforcement. Do what you can to avoid what you can, and get help when and where you can.

 

[rogerwa]

Kids at that age know right from wrong. When they do stupid things expect consequences. I would ensure my kid paid th right price. I wouldn't sell them down the river, yet I would not lie cheat or steal to protect them.

As it tell my daughter, what you do when you think nobody is looking says a lot about who you are.

 

[mscher]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

We' likely help our over 18 kids (we already do with local colllege). DS has a hard time remembering how to change a tire, but then he does not have to change one constantly, like I did, with my own junk car and working in a gas sataion.

Most 18 year old "adults", IMO are not as mentally mature, as we we were (back in the old days), which really isn't saying much, as I was a hard worker, but plenty stupid too.

When they get into trouble, they can (and often do) learn from their mistakes, without necessarily doing hard time.

I'm finding the "well, that's the way I did it", does not really cut it in 2011, any way.

Being parents stinks. No wonder my folks did not clue me in.

 

[JB]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

There is nothing new about this. Teens have been pushing the envelope since forever. When mine screwed up I stood with them to face the consequences. I told them I was proud of them for facing the music and hoped they learned from the experience.

I think what was most important were two things:

1. You must face the consequences of your behavior, at any age.

2. That does not in the least reduce our love and support. It may actually increase it.

 

[oops!]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Talk about responsibility to the community and you are flying a big B as an avatar??????

JUST KIDDING MY FRIEND.

I am not a parent (that i am aware of) however...... in any situation, you have to man up. Accept the responsibility of your deeds.
I know my father would have grabbed me by the ear and dragged me down to the cop shop, and made me confess.
I also know that it would be the right thing for me, regardless of the crime, be it rioting or other.

Tho its true that a group frenzy occurred......running into a store and grabbing stuff is the act of a thief. Burning a cop car, is the act of madness.

I was involved in the Stanley Cup riots in Edmonton. ( I was in my 20's so i was a little older) The worst we did was rock a city bus. When it started to get ugly....I knew to get out of there. The group mob mentality is a very strong one. It takes all you have up stairs to tell your self......"This is not right", and leave the action.

Because I was involved in the party, I understand how easy it is to get caught up in the frenzy......heck.....my mother was throwing toilet paper rolls out the window of our 12th story apartment. But there was still a line....and the teens must confess their crimes.

For the worst offenders......pay....the ones that burnt the cop cars......pay for them......smashed windows.....pay for them and all the stuff that got robbed because of the broken window...
but the rest?????.........looks like a really good opportunity for community service to me.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Mine had to man up and face the consequences. I still loved them and helped them face the consequences, but they had to take the responsibility.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Awe the lessons in life we must learn, of course we have all done things we are sorry for, But the most important thing, they need to stand up like the adults they think they are take the punishment, stand by them, love them and support the, but at this age there is no reason to run interference.

It is a hard lesson to learn for a young person, but I think it is even harder on us, the parents, but we never stop being a parent, which unfortunately means allowing them to make their mistakes and requiring them to take their responsibility for poor choices.

Good luck, this rough time will pas and you will be stronger because of it.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Mine had to man up and face the consequences. I still loved them and helped them face the consequences, but they had to take the responsibility.

Mine haven't yet (and I'm praying they won't), but I'm right with you Art. Learn the lessons while you're young ... they're cheaper then on so many different levels.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

There is nothing new about this. Teens have been pushing the envelope since forever. When mine screwed up I stood with them to face the consequences. I told them I was proud of them for facing the music and hoped they learned from the experience.

I think what was most important were two things:

1. You must face the consequences of your behavior, at any age.

2. That does not in the least reduce our love and support. It may actually increase it.

I

I cant agree more with JB here.

If the people who did the wrong dont face up to what they did they will never grow up. Plus if these privlaged kids get away with it becouse of who they are what does this say?

 

[Cheetah 210es]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

There is nothing new about this. Teens have been pushing the envelope since forever. When mine screwed up I stood with them to face the consequences. I told them I was proud of them for facing the music and hoped they learned from the experience.

I think what was most important were two things:

1. You must face the consequences of your behavior, at any age.

2. That does not in the least reduce our love and support. It may actually increase it.

+2 I'm sure we all did dumb stuff when we were younger, I know i did. I think the biggest difference is the prominence of video on cells and social networking.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

I remember seeing the news reports of those riots the morning after the Boston Bruins won the Stanley cup. "What a bunch of sore losers" I said to myself, and in Canada of all places. (!!???!??!?)

Parents are going to do all that they can to aid their children, it is only natural. There should be a price to pay, and if some/all get de-railed from their life plans for a while, so be it.

 

[tomdinwv]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Between my wife and I we have 5 kids ages 19 to 10. The oldest has not been in any trouble that we know of but he has had to be shown some tough love. We made it clear to him and the others that they are responsible for their own actions. Period. All 5 have been pretty good so far and I hope they keep their heads screwed on straight and stay out of trouble. At one time or another, all of them have copt an attitude or shown that they have a sense of entitlement. Both those conditions get corrected pretty quickly around here. I can't say for sure what we would do if a situation arose that would require any of them to stand in front of a judge and face the music for something they have done. I hope they never do anything to require that. Hopefuly, the lessons we have tried to teach will stay with them and they would take responsibility for their actions.

 

[canoemang]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

As a youth I got into a lot of trouble...ALOT. my parents never once bailed me out, financially or any other way(and they could have). I can honestly say the lessons I learned by having to go through the legal process on several occasions taught me how the system worked and i paid close attention because it was my life and cash on the line.. I needed to learn my lessons, i was a bad kid, i knew better but didn't really care.. i got away with way more than i got caught and i kept up with this lifestyle until 2000..

since then i have bought a house,started a legit business and have a wonderful girlfriend and a great life. Who knows what road i would have taken if my parents bailed me out every/any time I ended up in trouble.. it wouldnt have taught me anything and I would not be where i am today.

Kids have to learn.. the parents can only do so much.. when they leave the house it is up to the kid..

As an example.. I currently have a 30 yr old friend living with me, his parents bailed him out of every single jam he has ever been in (Mom=lawyer,Dad=Doctor). He still drinks and drives and messes with certain criminal aspects of life.. not in my house but.. I asked him when he was gonna learn and stop messing around and to sum it up he said "Why.. my parents will help me out". I was floored by this, Needless to say his time living with me is limited. He needed a place to stay until the house his parents are buying him goes through..

 

[royal0014]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Growing up, my father expressed two rules to me as I met my teenage years......

#1 As long as you live under my roof, you will do as I say, and finish school.

#2 If you ever find yourself in jail, don't bother calling home. You got yourself in there, you can get your own a** out!

Would he have stuck to the second rule? Only he knew, and that threat kept me from finding out. My son, though only 11y/o now, already knows Daddy's opinion on the subject.


<<)))(((>>

 

[tswiczko]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

My Kids range from 25 to 6. My oldest, being the one to be brought home in the back of a Sheriff's car set the example of what not to do..I did talk to all the people involved in the incident kept him from getting into serious trouble.

There was no mob mentality, no peer pressure, just a "mischievous" 13 year old kid a pack of firecrackers and an on duty deputy sheriff taking a nap in the back of a parking lot on a nice spring day with his windows down:facepalm: I'm glad he didn't get shot.

Yes I helped as much as I could but made it clear if the situation arose again it would be up to him to fend for himself.

No One wants to see their kid get into serious trouble. when they do get into trouble, as parents, we do what we can.

If the situation requires lawyers get a lawyer.

Some kids get into trouble and others follow the ones that get into trouble and get into trouble themselves, I know that sounds stupid but figuring out which one of the two your kid was that day might help with your plight.
good luck and I hope it doesn't get too messy for them and you.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

force them to take full responsibility, come what may for their mistake, or lawyer up to protect them from harm's way (so called).

The potential future repercussions far exceed the benefits of "teaching your kid a lesson" by doing nothing. It could have the potential to affect them down the road seeking employment.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Pretty diverse responses but interesting stuff.
Roger: I agree alot with what you've put here...simple.
Bubba: I'm 50% with you on this
JB: I agree that teens have always pushed the envelope the difference today is doe the envelope push back? (the envelope being 'modern parenting' to a large degree).
I too remember getting away with a lot of stuff and fortunately not getting caught. A lot of this would have probably qualified for legal action....misdeamenor for sure....felony...maybe?
These kids have committed (unknowningly?) a felony from a legal standpoint.
I think every parent does step up to keep their kid safe. However a big part of this issue is that, is standing between them and justice or tried/true legal laws that we all have to live by the way to go.....regardless and at any cost.
Its important to keep in mind that this event crossed the line of teenage fun to the issue of a fairly raucous riot. No one really got physically hurt, it was mostly about public damage...and eventually theft and mass (fun?) looting.
As well, the definition of 'kids'. The average age of those currently being brought forward is 19 years old. I certainly don't think that any of these kids (again...adults?) will not be doing any 'hard time' for this but they probably will get a record of sorts. Do they deserve this?

Tpenfield: the riots didn't have much to do with the Canucks loss to the Bruins or the 'sore loser' thing...most of the people I knew, although disappointed, did not frown upon the Bruins great series. One of my buddies is a Bruins fan and he just about went through the stratosphere with their win. Regardless, the riot is part of the huge public annoyance with this young group...which makes it appear as all Canadians gone wild over the Bruins.

Here is another question: Do you and your spouse share the same view of discipline for your kids? (this has varied from family to family...often the fathers seem to have a harder line on the discipline angle than the moms. The morning after the riots the downtown police stations were full of a lot of embarrassed parents picking up their kids from their first night in jail and most of these parents were the moms).

Interesting feedback on this so far guys.

 

[salty87]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

i think the cause of the problem is parents taking their children's side just because they're family. the child is always correct by default syndrome. moving the age of adulthood will do nothing but tell overgrown children they'll never have to grow up.

if parents always protect the kids, how will the kids ever become responsible?

i find it hard to believe that people 'unknowingly' committed crimes of smashing windows, burning vehicles, looting. they just thought they wouldn't get caught. anonymity in a crowd...the exact opposite of doing what's right when no one is even around.

 

[JB]

Re: Your Teens, responsibility, community and family

Perhaps my approach to discipline/punishment was unusual.

Parents-child conference:

Parents: "You did this misbehavior. Right? Did you know it was a wrong thing to do?"

Child: Usually pleads guilty.

Parents: "Our job is to find a way to convince you that you don't ever want to do that again, meaning that consequences make it not worth doing. Is that fair?"

Child agrees or pleads for mercy.

Parents: "Just to make sure that the consequences are fair, you tell us what you think is a fair penalty for what you did?"

Child usually suggests a penalty harsher than the parents would have thought.

Parents: "We think that is a bit too harsh. What do you think of giving up your car for a week, rather than two weeks?

Undesirable consequences happen, child feels fairly treated.

Note: Never do this when angry.