Tail Gunner. I do feel their pain we lost employee's in there. But that pain is the same pain felt by the families of the 3000+ dead soliders fighting in Iraq.
Hey Cmyers, I can't tell from which side of this issue you are comming from as some of yer logic is the same as the crazy stuff the Liberal MSM spews to wear us down, (which makes absolutely no sense to me), yet you make statements that could be cornstrewed as Cornservative as well. Very cornfusing to a guy with only one brain cell. That said: I will try to sort out the cornfusion you seem to have once again for ya, (and those who read political debates here on iboats). NEWS FLASH: the difference between loosing the precious lives of our Soldiers and Sailors, and loosing the lives of inocent citizens is HUGE if you employ logic, the same if you can only employ EMOTIONS. That seems to me to be your problem. In my 22 years in the investment business, one of my biggest jobs was to understand the demeanor of my investor. Illogical emotional investors ALWAYS LOOSE BIG MONEY BECAUSE THEY FREAK OUT AT THE EXACTLY THE WRONG TIME. If I could figure that out: (all emotions no logic), I always kept that investor in a T-Bill or a Money Market fund so they could not hurt themselves. Emotional investors ALWAYS buy at the top and sell at the bottom because their drivers are pure emotion, and FEAR and GREED are very powerfull and irresistible for emotional types, (when they worry about their money). Emotions are just the wrong way to evaluate starting or surrendering in a time of WAR. Logic is what sucessfull investors and leaders use very well. Logic tells a savvy investor to buy into fear when there is "blood in the streets", they use their brains and buy in instalments 'cause they know from history that bottoms are very hard to tell until after the fact. Logic also tells that same investor that "nobody ever went broke takin profits", so they tend to sell into frothy tops when emotional investors are just gettin super excited, and because they use logic NOT EMOTION they do it in installments, as tops can only be cornfirmed with 20-20 hindsight. They same is true of just about every important business decision and the heavier decisions about WAR. Logic: A totally unprovoked attack that killed 3000 citizens on 9/11, is a major earth shaking event that must be dealt with, Soldiers and Sailors ALWAYS DIE in WARS. Emotionally: the two matters appear the same: as you just stated.
Strangely I also feel pain for the innocent Iraqi civilians who get killed, kidnapped, become refugees.
Cymers, You must use yer knowledge of history and logic to sort these strong EMOTIONS out! Emotional illogical decisions will cost lives and freedom.
Dont for one minute think that had I had a vote I would not have said go in because I believed the information at the time.
Yah Cymers, I can tell, you are a good guy and when yer emotions overwhelm you: YOU will take us all to WAR, (just like the majority of the domestic Democrats did on 9/12/2001). Even the French were talkin' tough back then: Cymers!!
I accepted the costs involved.
Only Liberals SPECIFICALLY since the defeat of the United States in 1975, (which only cost 3,000,000 of our former allies their lives, and most were inocent civilians: BTW; just to get an adequate emotional angle to this historical matter that the MSM avoids), talk about WAR in cost benifit terms. That is the height of FOOLISHNESS AND WILL LEAD TO DEFEAT EVERY SINGLE TIME!
What has 9/11 got to do with Iraq. If memory serves me right the people who planned it and executed it were Saudi's, indeed the mastermind behind it was trained by the CIA.
Yah, It was actually the US that attacked the World Trade Center, RIGHT: Cymers! America is responsible for everything wrong in the world today: Cymers! Ya think Britian is real bad too? Just make it up if ya need to make yer point. Liberals luv to parse this stuff to a real illogical emotional anti-American cornclusion. Rossie thinks we blew up WT7 too! Do ya watch "The View" ta get yer facts Cymers? The fact is that President Jimmy Carter showed our profound weakness to the Iranians in 1979 that absolutely assured much greater loss of life and more vigorous attacks which in fact have occured. It is a World Wide cornflict where modern civilization with modern Liberal freedoms most of us luv, are totally rejected and ATTACKED by a large part of the 1 Billion Muslims, some of which are in many countries around the World. Allies LIKE GREAT BRITIAN have Muslims, (some home grown) that would nuke you or me and all of our countrymen n' women (Muslims too), in a New York second. Do you have the cognitive skills to grasp that, I know there is a potential to get emotional and loose track of logic?
We went into Iraq because of intelligence that said he had a WMD program HISTORY (Thanks OldMercsrule) has shown us this was wrong. Now we try and wrap it up in the Global fight on terror its the classic spin make you frightened , blame somebody , go to war and then declare anybody who debates against it unpatriotic.
Cymers, This is important. Please pause a moment from sippin' Liberal MSM Kool aid n' go back and read George Bushs' UNEDITED speechs in their entirely prior to the overwelming vote by Liberal Democrats and Cornservatives to go to WAR, (or authorize the use of military force to those who argue their moot points about undeclared WARS). You will find a very logical list of items that was very compelling to logical thinkers at that time and the logic is still COMPELLING today regardless of the past 6 years experience. WMDs were important cornsiderations, as were the past history of Sadam using every weapon he ever had on his neighbors n' his own people. He was very unreliable and unpredictable except that he TOTALLY supported all forms of terrorism and was openly hostile to America and America's allies. He had a 727 fuselage near Bagdad for practice by hyjackers. He was openly behind the 1993 attack of the WTC. He tried to assassinate GHW Bush. In fact there is not much he ever did that was good for the world. He totally corrupted the UN and the corruption that was exposed has just been papered over. Bottom line: he was one of America's and Britian's worst enemies in every way to include shooting at our planes nearly every day. Where are the WMD's? I don't know. Did they ever exist? I don't know. Did Sadam plan to build them as soon as he could and likely use them? NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT! THE ANSWER IS: YES.
Again I have no problem with the decision to go in but I am big enough and ugly enough to accept that with the benefit of hindsight it was a wrong decision and has infact for alot of people made things worse and it aint over yet!.
If Ya Go to WAR ya must either win or loose. There are lots of ways modern Liberals justify loosing. #1 Cost (lives of our Soldiers, inocents, time and or money). The proper approch is never go to WAR unless there is NO REASON TO STOP SHORT OF VICTORY. That includes readin' Lib newspapers n' viewin' TV shows that drum those 'cost' issues every day. #2 Inteligence was wrong. SO WHAT? There were plenty of reasons to take down the most vulnerable supporter of WORLD TERRORISM: SADAM! Just go read those old speeches to refresh yer fading memory! #3 We bombed a 'baby milk factory" or anything else our enemies can make up and get in the willing MSM, to wear ya down. Ignore it and WIN the WAR!!
Note Afganistan was training and protecting Terrorists and I 100% support the continued efforts to sort that country out.
Same 'strawman' argument repeated again: If Afganistan ceased to exist with every living thing on 9/12/2001 NOTHING WOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT!! Radical Islamists are all over the world: Cymers. SOME LIVE IN BRITIAN! Can ya figure that one out? Please think.
Justin
Excellent points. So back to my question to OldMercsRule. So what is the plan. What do we do and what are the costs and the end game.
Ya only do this open public planning if ya wanna loose the WAR, (that is any war: Cymers) and if ya wanna loose the WAR before ya start don't vote for it EVER. WAR plans always fail: EVERY TIME. Costs are always greater then planned: EVERY TIME. So plan to surrender immeadiatly and accept the cornsequences: NO SNIVELING! That's the plan for the worlds Modern Liberals.
Do we kill based on faith, colour , location. How do we move forward?
WE KILL ALL OUR ENEMIES AND BREAK ALL THEIR THINGS, EVERY ONE OF 'EM, UNLESS THEY UNCONDITIONALLY SURRENDER. Hard corncept fer Libs to understand as they view WARS as just another political tool to gain power.
This is my problem without commiting genocide how do you bend the will of the people to match your own, how do you take somebody with opposing beliefs and live together? I dont have the answer but I hope somebody does.
I JUST GAVE YOU AN ANSWER. IF MUSLIMS CAN"T LIVE HERE ON EARTH UNLESS MURKY AND YOU AND EVERY ONE ELSE "SUBMITS TO ISLAM", then we need to help them meet their maker: ASAP. Difficult for the emotions to allow you to understand the straight forward corncept: Cymers?
