1976 Ted Williams 15HP

[tullydf]

I have a 1976 Ted Williams 15HP s/n(217-587610) outboard that my Dad purchased new from Sears. It had sat for years and years in his garage, Since 1978. Last year I started to work on it. It started after a few pulls and I actually used it. It ran a little rough, but not too bad. This year, I rebuilt the carb and it is a beast. My main concern was that there was little water coming from the engine and I was worried of over heating it.

I decided to drop the lower unit to replace the impeller. When I removed the inspection plate to disconnect the shift rod, I noticed the shift rod on the lower unit was corroded. Upon removing the bolt, the rod crumbled at the top where the two rods met. The upper link is fine, but the lower shot.

Today, I proceeded to remove the lower unit. It did not want to come apart on the leading side. I tried everything. Ultimately, I had to resort to excessive force and as a result, the fin broke in several places.

I found a lower unit housing with a good shift rod for a 1976 Wizard 9.9 (supposedly made by Eska also Model: ESK6610
a7) on ebay.

To me it seems that the vintage of 15 hp motor I have is exact to the same vintage 9.9 engines. I would assume only carburation is different.

The lower unit looks exact in every way. I am hoping to take the guts from mine and transfer to the other housing.

Does anyone if this will be compatible?

Also, are the 15hp and 9.9hp of my vintage virtually alike?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Dave

 

[todd ashley peters]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

hows things there Tuff. the 15s & 9.9s are similar but not the same. 15s have a larger intake, but otherwise the same. the rings are higher on the piston on the 15s. the pass through on the 15 carb is fairly bigger
these motors came in a million configurations, but the lowers should be compatible however they came with a 5/8" or 11/16" prop shaft. the shift rod is the same.
Sometimes when i take one apart for the first time i flip the motor upside down and load it full of penitrant because its not the bottom end that is stuck its the shaft stuck in the powerhead. i've done the fin thing too but i'm a welder so that was no prob.

good luck, stay the course.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Todd has it right on engine differences but,

but the lowers should be compatible however they came

I beg to differ but No there not, in all but the last few years there is a major difference in the 9.9 & 15 lowers everything from driveshft lenght to bearings, thrustwasher & prop shaft design not to mention the bolt up is defferent too. I have noticed that some of the last few years of production Eska seem to standardize the lower units and even sent out 9.9's proped with a 12p instead of the 11p, early versions of the twin Eska had the HP stamped on the tail of the lower leg as not to confuse the assembly line or repair shop I guess.
I have gotten where I can spot a 9.9 or 15 by the stainless clip on the foot nut or lack there of.

Also Early model Eska twins had no thermostat unless optioned for cold weather operation this was do to the small diameter of the exhaust tube and fears of warrenty work, after the re design in the mid 70's the leg became the exhaust tube and the engines ran to cool so a thermostat had to be added, my personal opinion is the older models ran stronger because the exhaust tube acted as a tuner and had more advance from the factory, I think the older units coud also benifit from addition of a thermostat and then adjust the timing for the fuel and run the mixture somplace closer to 35-40:1
the first year the motor 380 & 381 was sold by sears its listed as a 32:1 which was changed the following year to 50:1 380a & 381a
so the deminsions of the shafts in the lower follow this line of progression too and bolt patterns/attachment points were changed to keep one foot off of the other, I think basically this is the answer...theres alot of years of 9.9's that will work but not swap with the 15's same same.... on the other hand in the late 70's or early 80's you might have a chance of interchange but I doubt it for a 1976 model...infact I have one so I know it won't work.

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

I am just looking to get the lower gearcase housing and shift rod. I plan to take all of the guts from mine and transfer to the other gearcase housing. If driveshaft is different, I can use mine. Nothing from my old lower unit was damaged. I only damaged the fin, (many,many pieces) which was a casualty of removing a lower unit that had not been off in 36 years. I did notice the water tube was also damaged so I will need a new one which is not available through Sear parts direct. If anyone knows where I can get one, that would be great!

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

I have been doing just a bit of research and there is one of two possibility's I see, 1. you have the wrong model no. or 2. you have a much newer model than a 1976...more like a 86, the last year of production and many model numbers are not listed...and thats a good thing, however I would have expected Sears to be able to pull it up but Sears tells me there is no such model...217-587610

sooo....

cooper tubing can work well for water tube replacement, you will have to fit and refit to get it bent right for your model but thats a simple thing.
On the gear cases, there not all the same at all, the gears and pinion may be cut the same but like I said the bearings/type and prop shaft, especially the rear shaft bearing in the back gear on the 9.9's is much smaller than a 15 and you will find a ball bearing for a drive shaft bearing on the 9.9 shaft and a full complemet needle bearing on the 15, even the gear case is milled and cast different as well as the gear box cover and its prop shaft bearing has several configurations and there is no hope of cross over until later models and even then I'm not 100% sure, if you post me a picture of the case I can help you and I may even have a great lead for you but lets double check that model number.

D

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Mr. Crabs,

The actual model number is 217-586310. I took some pictures with my iphone, they are below.

I have worked with copper tubing so I am confident I could fabricate something if I must. There is a water tube on ebay, but it is from a 9.9 model #217-58621-0. Don't know if that will work?


Here is pic of water tube on ebay...



Here are pics of my lower unit...




Here is pic of what I purchased on ebay...



Here is pic of my engine cowling...



Thanks!
Dave

Dave

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

It does look the same, check the rear gear and bearing, 9,9s had a small needle set and 15"s have a larger full complement needle set, the size will show on the back ends of your prop shaft that runs in the needles, and just a side note 7.5 deluxe's looked the same but early models used a bushing back there.

Did the drive shafts measure the same?

good luck,

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Still awaiting the arrival of the one I bought from ebay. I will post once received.

Thanks!

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Mr. Crabs,

I went to sears parts direct and compared the part #'s from my 15hp 217-58631-0 and the 9.0 217-58621-0 and for many of the parts, shift rod, water tube, drive shaft, gearcase housing, they are the same. As you suspected, some of the gearing in the gearcase housing is different. Fortunately, I have the gears from my old one which are fine and I will just swap all my innerds into the new gearcase housing. Looks like the water tube from a 9.9 will work as it is the same part #.

Dave

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Mr. Crabs,

I got the new gearcase housing today. I dry fit it with the drive shaft on and it was a perfect fit. Looks like it will be fine for use. What I am stumped on is how to remove the drive shaft from the gearhousing. It appears there is a gear on the bottom of the shaft within the gearcasse and I need to figure out how to remove the gear to get the shaft out.

Any ideas?

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Yes you need to remove the C clip holding the drive shaft bearing in the housing, then the pinion gear will come off and drive shaft out...pay attention to the C clip, flat side goes down

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Thanks...I have been dousing with PB penetrant for days. I will give it a go and see what happens.

Thanks!
Dave

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

you need small C clip pliers for that one, or at least I do good luck...and those bearing are available too

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Help Mr. Crabs...I cannot remove the shaft. I am attaching the pictures of what I am dealing with. How do I remove the plastic piece below where the water pump was??



Please help.

Thanks!
Dave

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

This white seal retainer is usually destroyed during removal, almost all I have seen have been hard plastic except one, however its the cheapest piece in the sealing of the lower unit...new one are black and cost about 3-4$ + shaft seal and O ring,

What you want to do is take a small punch or screw driver and rotate it a bitto losen it then take two small punches or Sdrivers find a good leverage point on opposite sides and pry up, its going to most likely brake apart and then the job gets easy pizzy

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

I can help you out on the shift shaft seal also....we use the OMC shift shaft O ring and remove the boot & wiper and cap it all up with a re worked brass washer

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Thanks...I'll take you up on the shaft seal stuff. Let me know what I need to do on that.

I really appreciate all your help!

Dave

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

look up sierra part number 18-7137 its a O ring. You take out the boot and wiper (rubber coated steal sleeve) leave the old seal in place at the bottom of the shift well and just add the O ring, you will need to do some grinding to fit around the water pump and rimming to enlarge the shaft hole on the brass washer, my next one I'm going to cut a drain slot to the front of the washer so when the outboard is tilted it can drain. You can even fit two Orings in the well if you want..its cheap insurance.
I used a 3M gasket product to glue the washer down after ruffing up the mating surface of both...other than heat there should be nothing to bother it...I run mine hard several time this summer and shes still holding, maybe you can come up with a different twist on the washer...I have many idea's...you could drill and tap a small screw hole but theres not much room on some models.

http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-7137&ptype=&Engine=&Model=

View attachment 170448View attachment 170449

 

[tullydf]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Mr. Crabs,

I got the white plastic retainer out and as you warned...it was destroyed during removal. You said new ones are available. Where can I get it and what is the part #? Will also need shaft seal and O ring. Help on where to get them and part #'s would be greatly appreciated.

Hope all is well and as always, thanks for your expertise!

Dave

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 1976 Ted Williams 15HP

Hey Dave, there are three pieces to the seal retainer, RetainerPART NUMBER: 26288
, Oil sealPART NUMBER: 96009
and O-ring PART NUMBER: 26292

Call Certified parts corp @ Toll Free: 1-800-356-0777 w/ part numbers in hand...these are really inexpensive parts and shipping is descent
VinParts

For the shift shaft I use a OMC shift seal fatty Oring , sierra part no. 18-7137
example:
http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-7137&ptype=&Engine=&Model=
I do not repalce the tiny little seal at the bottom of the shifter well and if it happens to come out I toss it, I simpley remove the rubber coated steel wiper and boot, use a brass washer and ream it to give a wide fit to the shift shaft and shape it on the pump side to the conture of the water pump, clean the top side of the well and scuff it and the washer, install the fatty O'ring and use your favorite heat resistant gasket sealer as glue for the washer over the top of the shaft well to act as a retainer ( I use the 3M gasket maker)....works for me, stops oil leaks 100%, on my last one I made the hole in the washer bigger for better drainage. you could also make a interference fit brass retainer to tap inside the well to hold the O'ring, it doesn't take much to hold it..and you can put two O'rings in the well if it makes you feel better. Any OMC dealer or boat shop should have that fatty O'ring...very common cheap OMC shift shaft part, fits like a glove

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Edit: sorry if my post seems kind of redundant....lol...but I seem to never read back up the thread :facepalm: