1979 Imperial

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

I bought my wood for the build! Sweet!
I went with 4 sheets Araucoply 3/4" for transom, bulkheads and stringers, and 3 sheets 1/2" Araucoply for decks, and other vertical framework. The decks will have one layer 1.5 oz CSM on the bottoms, and at least two layers of 1.5 oz CSM, and I'm considering a single layer of woven also????? Would this give the 1/2" deck some additional strength? How about 1708? Just 1 CSM topside before installation. I don't want to give you bad advice, so not going to give tabbing to the hull, CSM & 1708 order but yes, 1708 on the deck & some for tabbing. Once deck is done for strength, use CSM to cover 1708's texture, weave or waffle pattern. And a build primer may fill remaining waffle some too.

And my sheet of cdx 3/4" I'll use for my work table was warped big-time! So I'm laying it on 6 - 2x2's with various batteries topside in hopes of straightening it out.... Flip ply & rotate weights as necessary.

Next is to place my order for glassin supplies! Hurry up taxman! Double Yep & Great to hear....

You'll need to frame it anyway, but quickly:

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Hey JB

I'm going to wait to glass the top of the decks until they've been tabbed to the hull... I'm using WOG's glassing diagrams / methods for stringers, transom, and tabbing deck. In regards to my decks, will using 1708 sandwiched between two layers of CSM going to give me strength on my 1/2 deck? Or am I good with only two layers of CSM?

What is the diagram you attached? Sorry I'm confused????

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Have you checked out my drawings for Decks, stringers, and transoms linked in my signature? Also, I can send you a Guess-ti-mate on your materials if you need one.

 

[glnbnz]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Thanks for the pic Bear that will help me when I buy wood to dry out!!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Sorry, I miss remembered WOG's layup diagram, I thought the 2nd (middle) layer CSM was actually the 1708 between the other 2 layers of CSM. He recommends 3 layers total of CSM. The 1st is pre-installation in the boat. Then a 2nd AFTER 1708 tabbing, that goes up, over & past the 1708 tabbing. Then a 3rd CSM layer that goes up, over & past all the other previous layers:

I wouldn't do it any other way, 3 layers CSM above & 1 layer on the underside, is probably WAY stronger & more waterproof then it was originally. I had just had another similar conversation about repairs & making sure to sandwich 1708 between CSM for better bonding. I mis-spoke earlier. And although you could use 1708 as the 2nd layer, it's more expensive then CSM, harder to work with, and takes more resin. Because of all of that it's heavier to boot. I've seen it done as I initially described it w 1708, but upon reviewing WOG's drawing just now, I'd do it as he has it shown.


The diagram I posted last night was a quick mock up of a 'glass cutting table. Even if you get the plywood back to real flat, it's going to go wonky again, if it's again exposed to changes in humidity laying across a couple sawhorses. If you give it a frame & some 2X4 runners, it more then likely won't. If you can get the glass work done quick, oops style: 1 long weekend; you can probably skip the frame. If it'll take you a while like it will me, I'd frame the ply for the table. Handful of D/W screws run to just flush.

I didn't intend for this ^^ to be so long, sorry

Thanks for checking & getting me back on track.....

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

I'm using WOG's glassing diagrams / methods for stringers, transom, and tabbing deck.

Have you checked out my drawings for Decks, stringers, and transoms linked in my signature? Also, I can send you a Guess-ti-mate on your materials if you need one.

Yep see my last post above yours...

A guess-ti-mate would be great! I'll be doing a very similar layout to sleeper6's build. Two raised casting decks, with fuel, batteries, and storage below the casing decks.. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507523&page=2 I'll need enough glass to cover bulkheads, and compartment vertical framing... Should I use wax resin for the bottom of my decks? I think I've seen oops recommend this... Thanks Mike!

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Sorry, I miss remembered WOG's layup diagram, The diagram I posted last night was a quick mock up of a 'glass cutting table. Even if you get the plywood back to real flat, it's going to go wonky again, if it's again exposed to changes in humidity laying across a couple sawhorses. If you give it a frame & some 2X4 runners, it more then likely won't. If you can get the glass work done quick, oops style: 1 long weekend; you can probably skip the frame. If it'll take you a while like it will me, I'd frame the ply for the table. Handful of D/W screws run to just flush.

I didn't intend for this ^^ to be so long, sorry

Thanks for checking & getting me back on track.....

All good brutha! Great call on glassing table, I'll do that for sure... I'm not in a huge rush, and would like to enjoy the construction, and glassing part of my build... I appreciate your suggestions, and comments on my build always dude!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

All good brutha! Great call on glassing table, I'll do that for sure... I'm not in a huge rush, and would like to enjoy the construction, and glassing part of my build... I appreciate your suggestions, and comments on my build always dude!

Ah, yeah Ok.?!?!?! It's all better then grinding! Starting put back definitely makes the grinding worth it.

How's Jackson's knee? Hard to keep a good dog down.

Good luck getting through today & onto FRIDAY! Can't get here soon enough.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Guess - Ti - Mate for stringers, Transom and Deck +

15 gals 435 laminating resin
20 yds 1.5 oz CSM
15 yds 1708 Biax
5 qts of Cabosil
2 lbs of 1/4" chopped Strand
Bubble Roller
dozen qt. Plastic Tubs
2 dozen Chip brushes
dozen 6 inch roller covers.
3 dozen nitrile gloves
That should get ya close.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

How's Jackson's knee? Hard to keep a good dog down.

Good luck getting through today & onto FRIDAY! Can't get here soon enough.

Jackson is doing well thanks for asking! He's wearing the cone of shame as he decided it's good times licking and eating his cast! He has the soft bandages down to the start of the sutures on Monday morning! So I went to the vet instead of work... He has a crush on all the hot vet techs, So I think it was part of his master plan until the e-collar was installed! SHAME!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Guess - Ti - Mate for stringers, Transom and Deck +

15 gals 435 laminating resin
20 yds 1.5 oz CSM
15 yds 1708 Biax
5 qts of Cabosil
2 lbs of 1/4" chopped Strand
Bubble Roller
dozen qt. Plastic Tubs
2 dozen Chip brushes
dozen 6 inch roller covers.
3 dozen nitrile gloves
That should get ya close.

Thanks boss!!!!!!!!

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Sure was strange w/o the forum during server maintenance today... My day just didn't feel quite right??????

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

My day just didn't feel quite right??????

Yep, nauseous, had to come home early

'Twas another great day to take the crew chief to the dog park! Happy tails & smiles all around!

Hope you guys further north as still getting some of this great Feb weather....

Have a good weekend!

 

[Trooper82]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Hey Gang!

Big day today...

I bought my wood for the build!

........

Wonderful! me = jealous....not really...happy for you. I hope to be getting mine soon too. I like JB's idea of making a frame for underneath your layout table. I had not thought about doing that, good idea. Also Woody's c-clamps....I will have to use that too.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Morning gang,

Happy frigging weekend!

The best part of waking up is not Folgers in my cup! It's good fresh ground bean coffee, and this forum!

So I have some cardboard to start making templates! I hope to cut the transom, and at least PL it together this weekend. I also will place the cap back on the boat and double check measurements before I go for the stringers and such...

Big question here....

My garage is not level... Therefore neither is the boat in the cradle...

I believe in order to ensure my bulk heads are perpendicular to my stringers, I need to make sure the boats latitude (length wise) is level correct? Where do I take this level from? In my brain I think the level should be determined from the keel from inside the hull... But my issue is the keel isn't a straight line... Currently as the hull sits in my cradle, the stern is slightly higher than the bow. So if I raised front of the cradle up on blocks, and the boat is level, can I assume a 90 degree angle at top of my stringers will be perpendicular? My hopes are that if my thoughts are correct, when the decks are installed, and the boat sits in the water, naturally the stern will be lower than the bow, giving all my decks a slight angle aft, allowing water to drain toward the bilge...

I'm only on one cup-o-joe so the brain isn't quite up to speed!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Thought for thinking...Plumb-Bob...run a piece of lumber across the top of the gunwhales, mark centerline, dangle plumb-bob to find centerline of keel by tipping one side or the other of the boat using shims...do this at several points, front to back, then use a tight string-line front to back for a height reference...
Sorry bear, it's the first thing that popped in my head, don't know if it will help, but might get you close to side to side level...

I don't recall, Did you leave a deck reference around the inner edge of the hull, or did you grind everything away???

South Texan's resto thread used a grid of strings at the deck height, to get the correct stringer heights...
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=487463 , Post # 67

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Don't take it as gospel, because I lucked out & don't have to replace stringers, so I 'get' to use the existing to plane across to the hull & get an elevation for the back of my deck. This 'should' closely follow where the deck was originally, all the way around the edge of the hull.

Bulkheads perpendicular to the stringers is a function of straight stringers, and at 90 degrees to the stringer. On short length bulkheads, I'd probably use a 16X24 framing square. Anything longer then 3ft, I'd use the 3-4-5 triangle rule:

As long as Ang1 is 90deg, A squared + B squared = C squared So sorry, I used that regularly and only gave you 1/2 the 3-4-5 rule w/ that layout. SORRY:

If the corner is 90 degrees, measure along side A a multiple of 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30+ in inches. Make a note of which multiple of 3 it is. And mark that length. Along side B take the multiple from side A & multiple by 4, measure & mark that length. The distance between side A's 3X length & side B's 4X length will be side C's 5X length. Be sure you are measuring from the same side of the corner, both lengths pulled from the outside or both lengths pulled from the inside of the corner.

That takes care of the length run of the stringers to bulkheads & perpendicular. If you didn't have good stringers to pull heights from, I'd use the red points I put on your photo:

And pull string lines across your hull left & right at points that are spaced down from the transom evenly on each side, it looks like I've put those dots at the hull to deck joint, mark the joint as accurately as you can for the top of the deck after glass as this is where everything else was set up from. That way it won't matter if you use more or less glass mat, or thicker ply, no matter what thicknesses, you account for it in the next step. Measure down from the string to the hull bottom at each string, using a carpenter's square or angle to be sure your measuring vertically. If your hull is slightly out of level left & right, it is not too bad as long as the hull hasn't flexed & you are stringing from hull/deck joint to hull/deck joint. For the keel stringer you can find the string center point, and measure down to the keel. From that measurement DEDUCT the 1/4" gap for under the stringer, DEDUCT the thickness of your deck, & DEDUCT 1/4" for the 'glass & resin total build up (this # may need to be revised based on actual build up, WOG or oops can give you a better #, but you get the idea). This will leave you with your stringers height at each string line. Take a straight factory edge of the ply wood and set 1 end as transom & pull heights you measure up on perpendicular lines & get the contour points of the hull marked. Join those contour points into a contour line. The more strings the more accurate the contour. But you can space the strings as close or far as you think you should to accurately mark & measure the contour. Look at the hull, it sounds much harder then it really is

Before cutting any actual stringers, I'd probably get all the stringer heights measured, pick the tallest, add a 3/4-1.5" and rip the ply down into long narrower strips on a table saw. That way all the ply has a 'good factory' edge to pull layout lines:
Connect the ends of your elevations & that new contour should closely match you hull.

GT1M was the last I follow to install stringers, or at least lay them out & 'glass ready. And I think he might have used a level or 2 (?!?!??!?!?) in his setup, shoot him a PM & check how
he set it up.

EDIT: see, GT was posting while I was working on my post, & the string gunnel to gunne, centerline, plumb bob is perfect for left & right level. W/ a long enough & really straight 2X, pipe or angle metal, you could probably lay it across the gunnels & level it from there. Checking centerline to keel w/ a plumb bob after that to confirm. I'm definitely going to check out the thread GT posted.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Bulkheads perpendicular to the stringers is a function of straight stringers, and at 90 degrees to the stringer. On short length bulkheads, I'd probably use a 16X24 framing square. Anything longer then 3ft, I'd use the 3-4-5 triangle rule:

View attachment 131762As long as Ang1 is 90deg, A squared + B squared = C squared

So sorry, I used that regularly and only gave you 1/2 the 3-4-5 rule w/ that layout. SORRY again:

If the corner is 90 degrees, measure along side A a multiple of 3: 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30+ in inches. Make a note of which multiple of 3 it is. And mark that length. Along side B take the multiple from side A & multiple by 4, measure & mark that length. The distance between side A's 3X length & side B's 4X length will be side C's 5X length. Be sure you are measuring from the same side of the corner, both lengths pulled from the outside or both lengths pulled from the inside of the corner.

I hope that helps.....Sorry about leaving some details out...

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Hey jb and GT thanks for the reply and help, I'm all good with the Pythagorean's theorem, but I'm not following the original deck lines of this boat. I think I'm betting a better handle on things, and I think I know where I'm going to base my main stringer height. I guess I'm trying to determine where level on my boat should be measured from. Here is a pic of what my main seating deck will look like. The red with yellow caps are stringers, the dark blue represents the forward casting deck bulkhead, and anything light blue is deck surface. I used lines, and mist effect so the main seating deck would be transparent...

Note: the boat now has 5 main stringers instead of one supporting the main deck. This will allow me to support the 2 bulkheads in the bow, and 2 in the stern.

My first level experiment I used to 2 x 2's and ran them across the top of the hull, tied a homemade plumb-bob to one of them, and ran my level spanning both 2 x 2's.

The way the boat sits now on the cradle it is stern high. The issue is the surface of where the 2 x 2's sit is not a level surface. but it's decent enough for what I'm getting at. Notice position of plumb-bob on ruler...

Then I raised bow and blocked the cradle so the the boat was level. Note the position of plumb-bob now.

So in my mind the hull must be level to determine where any perpendicular surface (like a bulkhead) needs to be in relation to my stringers... Right????

But there are other spots this "Level" can be measured from.... As I said previously the top of the hull where I ran the 2 x 2's from isn't a perfectly straight line...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1979 Imperial

Bear,

You have two parallel surfaces on either side of the hull if you make a 1x4 90? ledger board you can use this to ensure all bulkheads and stringers are 90? and parallel to the deck no matter what angle the hull is at.