1986 Johnson 9.9 Frankenmotor

[pckeen]

Hmmm. Should be a washer on the inside of the plastic cam follower (next to the carb body). Is that in place?

No - how thick is that washer.

 

[oldboat1]

Can't answer that -- Sorry. pn 330190 -- estimate about 1/16 inch thick stainless (pretty thick for diameter). If you can come close to that, I think it would be worth a try. (I've ordered one or two, but don't remember if I did that because it was a specialized part or because I was combining orders.)

 

[Chinewalker]

Oldboat's correct - it's a pretty fat washer. You might even find it in the belly pan if you poke around a bit. It's a critical part, not likely found at Home Cheapo.

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

No Title

As the others have said, the washer is at least a good 16th of an inch thick and the inside diameter only fits over the threaded portion of the shoulder screw. It wouldn't fit over the main portion of the screw. As far as the adjustment screw, these instructions are from the manual for my 84 so hopefully they will work for your 86.

Advance the throttle until the mark on the cam lines up with the center of the roller. You can see a dab of white paint on mine in the first picture. The throttle shaft should just begin to move at this point. The manual suggests to put a "throttle amplifier" on the shaft to make the movement easier to see as in the second picture.

At this point you back off the adjusting screw until the throttle is completely closed, then turn in the screw until the throttle shaft just begins to rotate.

The 3rd picture is what mine looks like at wide open throttle.

 

[pckeen]

As the others have said, the washer is at least a good 16th of an inch thick and the inside diameter only fits over the threaded portion of the shoulder screw. It wouldn't fit over the main portion of the screw. As far as the adjustment screw, these instructions are from the manual for my 84 so hopefully they will work for your 86.

Advance the throttle until the mark on the cam lines up with the center of the roller. You can see a dab of white paint on mine in the first picture. The throttle shaft should just begin to move at this point. The manual suggests to put a "throttle amplifier" on the shaft to make the movement easier to see as in the second picture.

At this point you back off the adjusting screw until the throttle is completely closed, then turn in the screw until the throttle shaft just begins to rotate.

The 3rd picture is what mine looks like at wide open throttle.

​Great advice - thanks. The washer arrived today - it was a hair thicker than 1/16", a hair smaller than the smooth part of the bolt shaft. I installed it on the cam roller link - and it put the link in the right position. It took a few pulls initially, but the frankenmotor is running. Only ran it for 15 seconds or so, as we are in the middle of a snowstorm. I'll get it out for a water test and a video when the weather is better. How many turns out should the rich/idle adjustment knob be on startup?

 

[pckeen]

Water test today - out on the lake in a 1950s 14' Lone Star. After some tinkering with the cam roller and throttle control cam, I got it running well at WOT, but I can't seem to get it to idle. When the motor is set to Neutral, and the throttle is opened up as far as it can be, the roller isn't touching the throttle control cam. Does any of this sound right or wrong? Any idea what I should do?

 

[oldboat1]

You have to set the roller on the cam mark on the slow idle side (right side) of the cam -- the point at which movement of the cam roller begins to open the throttle plate. (That's the "link and sync.") Your '86(?) plastic cam has an adjustment screw on the high speed end -- think maybe you've been adjusting that. Depending on where it's currently set, you may end up carefully tweaking the high speed end a little to make sure the throttle plate fully opens at WOT, based on the roller position in relation to the cam. But don't start there.

The primary concern is setting the roller at the low end, and that's done by adjusting the roller to the cam. Turn the twist grip until the roller is close to lining up with the cam mark, then carefully set the roller on the mark by turning the little allen head bolt in the cam follower. Test the setting a few times using the twist grip. There may be a little slop in the wheel, so you might have to play with the setting a little.

The roller will not be in contact with the cam at a very low idle, but remains in contact with the cam at WOT.

(Kind of wordy -- sorry.)

 

[pckeen]

That's helpful, but my concern is there is quite a gap between the cam and the roller. Are the two screws the only way to adjust this?

 

[oldboat1]

believe that's it (again, with main emphasis on the cam follower screw).

 

[pckeen]

believe that's it (again, with main emphasis on the cam follower screw).

Thanks. Still not sure if it is set up right. The roller doesn't touch the cam until the motor is in gear, and I crank the throttle. Is that normal?

I had it out running tonight - couple of questions. First, warm (hot) water was coming out of the dime sized hole in the housing. Is that normal? Here is a video of it while running.

Second - I did some more work on the motor. I installed some additional clamps on the fuel hose, in case there was a leak. It is still hard to start and won't idle. I also found that the bulb in the fuel line to the motor isn't staying firm when running. Lastly, the motor, at WOT, regularly loses power. Does this all indicate that I have a weak fuel pump?

Here's a video of it losing power.

 

[oldboat1]

The hot water from the exhaust relief would be normal -- amt. looks normal too at or close to WOT. Not sure about that hesitation, offhand. It doesn't sound or look like a l.u. issue to me. (Motor seems to run well at speeds, aside from the glitch.)

Position of the cam or the roller can't be right, though, as you describe it. I wonder if you can rotate the throttle/timing plate under the flywheel by hand -- think you might not be getting to the idle position, maybe because the throttle stop on the end of the tiller arm is holding the throttle open/advanced. If that's true, your link and sync adjustment might have been made with the throttle too far advanced.

That mixture needle should be very sensitive, btw -- 1/4 turn one way or the other should make a difference at idle. I get the sense you might be adjusting more than that with no effect.

But no breakthrough ideas for you, I'm afraid.

 

[pckeen]

Then I must have done something wrong when I cleaned the carb - I'll take it back out and re-clean the mixture needle and holes where it goes in to see if I can improve things. I'm thinking I should take the flywheel off and check the position of the cam as well - maybe someone didn't install it correctly.

 

[racerone]

I think the cam only fits one way with no adjustment.----Post close-up pictures of the roller on the carburetor.

 

[pckeen]

I got a video instead - I think this shows it better.

 

[oldboat1]

http://www.iboats.com/Ignition/dm/cart_id.663967734--session_id.471117105--view_id.1536916

I think your plastic cam might be broken or installed incorrectly (#7 "cam and screw assembly" -- screw would refer to the adjustment screw you show in the clip). You can see the intended location in the retainer (#4) for the cam. The molded nubs fit into the holes in the tabs of the retainer, shown just north of the cam in the diagram.

I'm guessing that the cam isn't fit into both holes in the retainer, maybe because one of the nubs is broken off, or the cam is just not fit up correctly. (It clamps in place between the retainer and the support -- is not held directly in place with screws or other fasteners.)

I think you probably need to pull off the flywheel and take off the mag plate, then check the condition and location of the cam. They do get brittle and break -- had one break by dropping it on my shop floor (recall it that way, at least -- don't think I stepped on it....)

Anyway, that's the way I see it -- might wait for some additional opinions.

 

[pckeen]

I took the cam off - it was in good condition, and the two pins in the cam fit neatly into the holes - still the same gap afterwards. Here is a video of what I saw. The missing screws in the plate were not significant - there was nothing in the plate below it for them to screw into.

 

[pckeen]

Aha!

Problem (maybe) solved. Here is my cam follower and roller.



Here is what it should look like.

Looks to me like it should have an outer plastic sheath, that pops over the top. I have a new one on order.

 

[pckeen]

And....getting pretty close to success. I re-cleaned the low speed idle on the carb, and replaced the plastic insert that I hadn't replaced before - as it appeared to be in good shape.

I also had a roll of Red Green's secret weapon in my tool cabinet. A very professional plastic sheath has been fabricated.

Starts up no problem at all now. Runs pretty well, but it is still experiencing intermittent drops in power. I suspect the fuel pump is getting older.

Still doesn't idle all that well, but 1/4 turns in the lean/rich knob make a noticeable difference.

 

[oldboat1]

There is some discussion of the cam plate and roller here (about 2/3 down the page): http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Johnson_9.9_carb-fuel_pump.htm

Sounds like you are making some progress with it. Great fan of Red Green's solutions and secret weapon (I'm partial to gaffers tape).

just a couple of observations after getting squinty eyed looking at this stuff: I can't quite tell whether your cam follower link is in place (and possible it's the wrong part -- too short(?)). If you unhook the link, can you push the roller toward the cam with your finger? I think they are usually canted in that direction, while yours seems fairly vertical.

Also the location of the charge coil and sensor don't seem quite typical for an '86. I would expect to see the charge coil located at the position of the cam plate, but not sure what would follow from that.