1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

It was annoying, but not bad. The rot had creeped up the back of the good plywood, so chunks of the good stuff came off easier than I thought. I also went over the good wood with a circular saw in a criss-cross pattern, which made it easier to pry up with a pry bar -- it all came apart in chunks.

Here it is with most of the wood gone, just a couple ply thicknesses in the top right, and some skin over the rest.

MountaineerMiner was right about the flap disk on the grinder. Took the plywood skin clean off the glass hull.

Always wear your safety gear!

While the respirator and goggles are essential, I can't handle the paint suit in Florida in July. It's either itch a lot without it, or sweat out a river and maybe get heat stroke. I'm basically working in my driveway, so I've been doing demo work in the morning when the house shades the boat. Frequent breaks to gulp water and soda.

I'm pleased about the transom, though. I have a little bit more to clean out at the bottom, but I moved on to other areas.

So, the stringers were glassed up next to the transom, but the ends weren't capped, it was just wood to wood. Guess what? Ends of the stringers are gone, of course.

The battery box sounded hollow, and it was.

I'm tired of waterlogged foam. I've been going back and forth about whether to add foam to the boat when I re-deck, and if you ask me right this instant, I don't want to see the stuff again.

But, give me a while. I'd like to maybe come up with some sort of foam system under the cap. Noodles or torn up PFAs or something. I don't think I can stuff enough under there to balance the weight of the boat, though. I'll think about it more after I finish the demo and don't have my hands full of wet foam any more.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

I did a resto-mod of the same boat (see link below) but I was fortunate it didn't have any rot issues. Maybe it will serve as some inspiration to your project... Good luck brutha!

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Hi Bear! Yeah the seating arrangements look familiar. I'm sketching out on graph paper how I'm going to set mine up.

So, I poked around the seating fore of the consoles, and yeah, rot.

At this point, I've gone through most of LowKee's 10 steps of restoration denial, including a couple more steps unique to my boat, and I've accepted the fact that I'm going to have to take out every bit of wood and replace it.

I'm putting off the transom rebuild until I've demoed this thing down to the hull, which will probably take some time.

I did break down and wear the tyvek suit today. It was indeed hot, but I'm also not itching now, so I think it's worth it.

My neighborhood has a popular boat ramp into the intracoastal, so as I work, I see people towing their perfectly working boats to and from the water. They could be taunting me, but I'll take it as inspiration instead

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Little bit of real life hitting -- deadlines at work, four kids running around for summer break, 90+ heat with no shade and no rain for weeks.

Looks like Tropical Storm Bonnie will miss us by a few hundred miles, and tonight was a nice evening, so I grabbed 45 minutes to do some more demo.

I love the iBoats forums for all the tips and tricks. I was seriously annoyed at my stubborn foam this last weekend, but following some of the resto threads, I read that a wire wheel on a drill that might help.

It was fantastic. It didn't exactly cut like butter, but it was like some sort of sculpting tool. I could carve out the edges, then push forward and the foam would peel off. Looks like it snowed in the boat, and yellow snow at that.

Then, after some debate and contemplation, I tackled the fore seats on the port side with a grinder (with a metal cutting disk) and a reciprocating saw. I left a pretty big seam up the sides, but I had the seat boxes out in less than 15 minutes.

Kind of annoying cutting through the rotted wood and seeing bugs run away. Everything from earwigs to a wasp (from under one of the consoles). As resigned as I am to taking out all the wood, every step I take shows me it's the right thing to do, and that this boat will be built a heckuvalot better this time around. Built to last, and a lot more customized to what I want to do with this boat.

My cutting disk self destructed while working on the starboard side, so I called it a night after 45 minutes, but it was a good 45 minutes -- everything went well and my spirits are much better.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Almost done with the macro-demo -- a lot of the big seating areas are gone. Then starts the fun of the micro-demo -- removing all the ridges left over and sanding/acetoneing the inner hull.

I got the tank propped up, but I have to figure out how to get it out of the boat when there's still something like 8 gallons of who-knows-what in there. It's a little too heavy to heave it over the side. I'll probably have to recruit some help.

Gotta love Florida. Pulled up the tank and 2-inch roaches scattered everywhere, along with several other weird bugs. A whole little ecosystem living down there. They weren't handling their eviction too well.

I have a gawdawful amount of foam to get out, a couple sections of deck, then the delicate work of extracting the stringers so hopefully I can make a template.

The demo is taking longer than I thought, though my time has been sporadic. I just want to get down to the hull so I can start building it back up again (and, to finally give my neighbors a break from reciprocating saws and grinders from my driveway).

 

[proshadetree]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

I did an 19.5 foot capri cuddy a few years back. Had the same transom you have. I just did center section. In my build I just fabbed bulkheads along the floor with 1/2 inch pipe at lower end for drainage. My boat drums when it rough water. No cracks no foam. I road in a 90 cuddy with a 4.3 that was some quieter than mine he replaced the foam. My boat is 230 lbs lighter than his and I have a 305. I have to question if he has taken on some water. Might be able to find my thread if you prowl around some.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Thanks Pro! Yeah, that transom looks a lot like mine. Makes me feel a lot better that I'm not imagining things.

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No new pics from the weekend. Got the tank out on Sunday, which was a two person job. In the boat, I had to tilt the tank with a tube out of the inlet leading into a 5 gallon gas can. 5 gallons out was enough to lift the tank out, but there was still a lot in there. Total ended up being 12 gallons of neon orange gas, water, leaves, and bits of plastic. Good thing our local landfill has a hazmat area that takes gasoline. Bad thing is they're only open on Thurs, Fri, and Sat, and my family is going on vacation for a week tomorrow.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

So, it's been a little while. Vacation with the family last week -- drove wife and four kids from Florida to Washington DC for five days, then drove back. Awesome, awesome vacation, but I don't want to drive on the highway for another month or two now.

Work catch-up for the last four days, and I got to do some more demo tonight for an hour or so.

I was trying to be a little scientific tonight. I have a lot of big ridges left from the macro-demo. Like, 2-3 inches in some parts, sometimes more, especially around the seat boxes. I know the final micro-demo will probably be a lot of grinding and sanding down to the hull, but I wanted to get the rest of the seatboxes and deck and foam out as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I have a Dremel, a $17 4" grinder from HF, and $34 multi-tool HF knock-off of the Dremel MultiMax. Which one would do the best job against 1/2" ply and glass?

So, first with the Dremel and a wood/fiberglass wheel:

This is the remains of the port seatbox afterward:

Very precise and very close to the skin, but it took about 15-20 minutes to do the whole seatbox.

Next, the 4" grinder with a metal cutoff wheel:

The starboard seatbox afterward:

Very close to the Dremel, but not quite as precise. However, it took maybe 8-10 minutes to do the seat box.

I didn't take pics of the multi-tool. I had two blades -- the semi-circle and the offset plunge blade. They were both the most precise cuts, but they took freaking forever to cut, and in the long run might have been more noisy than the grinder.

Demo is coming along great now, I just wish it was over.

Ends of the stringers are finally exposed!

Which is almost a bit annoying. The fore half of the stringers are fine. Solid and glassed well. The aft half are rotten every couple feet, then strong in between. But, since rot is a fungus and who knows how far the spores or rot have reached....I'm going to have to cut out perfectly good parts just to be sure I got everything out. Which I'm resigned to, but that doesn't mean I'm not muttering.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Here's the rundown of the tools:

On the left is the $34 Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool! The semi-circle blade and the offset wood blade were precise, but slow.

Next is the Dremel with the wood blade. It was very precise, but it was also a $15 blade and after one single seat box, it went from a knobby golden abrasive blade to a shiny smooth one. I'm guessing the performance dropped a lot afterward.

Next is my $17 4" Harbor Freight grinder, which I am loving as much as a software engineer can deeply and honestly fall in love with a knock-off power tool. To the left is a clean metal cut-off disk. Attached to the grinder is one of the same blades after a seat box and about 10-15 more linear feet of deck. I think I can spot a bit of wear.

Finally is a simple Harbor Freight wire wheel (<$10 I think) attached to my corded drill. It makes nice yellow snow out of my foam, and buffs the hull where it comes into contact with it without any danger of gouging holes in it. My love for it is secondary to the grinder, but I don't mention that to the grinder, for fear of unfounded jealousy.

 

[Allbutwet]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Looking good Peter. Your almost through the worst part. A couple more weeks of cleaning up and you will get to the fun part. My only input is take extra pics for yourself and lots of measurements. I only say that because I found myself wishing I had. Keep up the good work.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

I did most of my demo with a 4 in grinder. I scored the floor close to where I needed the cut then just pried it and it always broke at the score. Then I pulled out the big gun the 8 in grinder to make the dust fly. Your getting close to rebuild stage. Cant wait to see a splash pic.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Thanks for the encouragement, guys! It's appreciated!

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Started grinding some of the seat box ridges down to match the hull. Ran into something annoying, but in retrospect, understandable. The outside of the seat boxes has an extra layer of glass where the boxes were tabbed in. Inside where the seat boxes were, the hull is thinner.

Top and left is outside -- it's an extra layer thick:

Same here, but to the left is outside, to the right is inside:

So, the question is....grind the outside so it matches the hull? Do a layer of glass where the inside was until it's the same level, then grind it smooth? Or feather it so it's basically smooth, but in reality it will be different thicknesses at various points in the hull?

 

[proshadetree]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Depends if your going to put the boxes back the same way

 

[orbitz]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

keep up the good work! i have the exact same boat and i'm looking forward to seeing your progress!

 

[dsorrell]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

I have been an on and off reader of Iboats like you. I have been fascinated reading about your restoration. You have been wavering between redoing the floor foam or not when you start rebuilding. I did some floor work on my 1985 Bayliner Capri and had a lot of that no good foam to deal with as well. I wanted to replace the water logged stuff that I took out and found a two part mix of closed-cell foam that worked great. It has to be closed cell so that it doesn't soak up and retain water. If you are interested in pursuing that, I can forward you the info of the stuff I used.

 

[orbitz]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

i'd love to hear about what you used. I will be starting the same project soon. (in the off season hehehe)

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Thanks guys! Work has been slower lately because of rains. I've got part of one stringer out and part of the gas tank supports. Supposed to be a nice weekend, though, so hopefully I'll make more progress.

No real decision yet on the foam, though I have a while to make up my mind. At this point, I'm thinking no below-deck foam, just because there's really not that much room down there. I've changed my mind so many times, though, that I probably won't commit until the deck is ready to go down.

dsorrell -- the foam in my boat was closed-cell, but it degraded in parts and held water against the deck and stringers anyway. Of course, it's 16 years old, which may be a factor.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

That is why I did not re-foam mine. I really did not want my baby to rot. I have torn into many boats and if there was foam there was rot. I have heard it said it is structural, this can be overcome with cross braces off the stringers that compartmentalize the hull. In these compartments drains should be placed in the lowermost sections to drain back the the bilge. If these drains are also thought of as jets as in a carburetor then the flotation requirement is also met if you appropriate large enough bilge pumps. I run two large pumps that can meet the amount of water allowed to go to the bilge. I only use this boat on lakes so a bank is always close by. If I were to boat on say lake Michigan or the ocean I would then recommend re-foaming. If a known hole is made in the hull a shirt or canvas can slow the leak to return to the ramp and extract the boat. My first boats never had foam, the were of the older design fiberglass hulls. My Sidewinder was made in 1975 and never had foam. It is 455 Olds inboard with a jet-drive. The design of the hull will let it sink if it gets a hole. I have witnessed comparable boats go down. I will compartmentalize this hull which adds weight but adds strength and safety. Know you options and realize you have the last say in what happens with your boat.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

Thanks, Proshadetree, and everyone else for your comments about foam. Everyone really helps add opinions from experience, and that's what makes these iBoat forums so amazingly valuable.

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This is a little lengthy, but here is pretty much my thought processes for the last month about foam in my boat.

I had another thread about foam which had some interesting replies, but my dilemma is this. Foam is/may be used for three things (and please iBoaters -- correct me if I'm wrong...):

*Structural in some boats (pourable-only, as it sticks to the hull and stringers and sometimes deck). It acts somewhat like a stringer itself by distributing forces along the hull

*Noise suppression, either of the engine compartment, or water slapping the hull. Pourable or Home Depot foam or noodles, etc.

*Flotation, hopefully offsetting the weight of boat and equipment in the case of swamping. Pourable or Home Depot foam or noodles, etc.

I've read from some iBoaters (Oops in particular) that foam is necessary for structure in Bayliner Capris due to the thinness and construction of the hull. While this is a very important consideration, the only places for pourable foam on my 1950 is on the outside of the stringers:

I'm not sure how 16' by 3"-10" of pourable foam is going to add structure. On the other hand, the ski box and the bilge have an extra layer of glass over the bottom, reinforcing the hull in those places, and the tank sits on two glassed-in 60" pieces of 3/8" plywood which also adds structure, I would think. Also, I plan to glass up the sides of the hull some more when placing the stringers, so I really can't see that structure is going to be a huge issue.

Noise, I don't really care about. As long as a wave won't punch a hole in the hull, drumming won't bother me.

Flotation is another story. I'm experienced with offshore fishing in Florida and fully plan to take this boat offshore, maybe 10-15 miles in some cases, often alone. I had a 21' Larson 5.0L I/O that I took offshore 30+ miles alone, and there was no foam in that boat at all. Still, this Bayliner puts me in more of a unique position because I actually *can* make it float with enough foam, unlike my Larson.

So, if I do put enough foam in to keep it buoyant, my dilemma turns to what kind of foam to use and where to put it. When hacking this boat apart, I could see how this supposed closed-cell foam just pooled water in spots into direct contact with the deck and stringers. Even if I glass my deck and stringers properly, I don't want water trapped anywhere in the foam. Putting drain holes or PVC channels in the bottom won't help if the foam traps water against the bottom of the deck and it can't sink through the foam to escape out the holes into the bilge. So, I've 99% given up on the idea of pourable foam.

Therefore, I'm flipping back and forth between no foam at all, just like my old Larson, or enough foam to float. If I put any below decks, it'll be HD or noodles, not pourable. Since I'm going to completely change the seating around, I'm also calculating if I'll have enough room under the seats (including the seat cushions themselves) to keep the boat above water. All seat boxes will be gone, but I'm going to do a sun-deck and bench seat all along the back, which will maybe give me enough area around the engine to help support that. There is a lot of room under the cap along the gunwales, and I might double-wall the anchor locker up front to add some foam, and maybe make a casting platform. The calculations are tricky because of the new deck plan and I don't want to get in the position of buying and placing all this foam, just to be 3 cubic feet short and have it sink anyway.

Anyway, thanks for the opinions and keep them coming, I appreciate them. I'll be wrestling with this up until I start decking her, and maybe up to splash time and after the first few trips out.

 

[Stampeder]

Re: 1994 Bayliner Capri 1950 Restoration

I have been an on and off reader of Iboats like you. I have been fascinated reading about your restoration. You have been wavering between redoing the floor foam or not when you start rebuilding. I did some floor work on my 1985 Bayliner Capri and had a lot of that no good foam to deal with as well. I wanted to replace the water logged stuff that I took out and found a two part mix of closed-cell foam that worked great. It has to be closed cell so that it doesn't soak up and retain water. If you are interested in pursuing that, I can forward you the info of the stuff I used.

dsorrell:

Can you send me details of the close cell foam you did please. I have an 87 Sea Ray Seville I'm going to be doing coming up this winter.

Thanks.
Glenn.