2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

The seller that says "Come and have a look and form your own opinion", is probably more honest than the guy that says, "It's in excellent shape, well maintained, and runs perfectly!", when you get there you find out the picture was ten years old and the hull is moldy and rotting.

And by all means take the Admiral, She may decide the fishing boat was not such a bad idea.
The Fish/Ski Combo boats are mostly fish but ski capable.

Think of the cost of going to look, as the price of your boating education.
It is amazing how much bigger 20 ft is compaired to a 19!
Finding out what you do not like is just as important as what you do like.

As I have mentioned to others. Work out the logistics.
Where are you going to keep it?
Many local laws require it to be out of sight of the street if kept in the yard.
Will it fit down the Driveway or in the garage?
Boats are a lot wider than cars!
Some 20 foot boats sport a head.
Sound like a good thing? Who gets to empty it?
Will your vehicle Tow it? Are You Sure!!! ???
Most smaller SUV's will not tow a 17 footer, Very few a 20 footer.
Boats are heavy. You are looking in the 1 to 2 ton range with the trailer.
Estimate fuel costs.
A 17-18 footer w/120 HP could cost $100 to operate for a full day.
A 20-22 footer w/240 HP could double that.
At 2-3 MPG you can burn 8-10 Gal per hour.
Is that in your budget?

By all means go and look at everything even remotely likely.
Don't believe a thing any seller says, Good, or Bad!
Remember, the guy selling it doesn't want it.
You may just find a jem that he describes as a junker.

Thank you for a lot of insightful information! I have over looked the tow weight. Boater education is not required here for people born after 1982 i believe unless it is for use of a PWC. Although they do offer free classes plus the price of the book that is 29.95, i will attend with my children and wife. One can never be to safe or over educated. Operating fees and general maintenance are not going to be an issue although i am trying to avoid buying complete money pit. I will have to double check on the width of my driveway as well. Thanks again!

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Burgh - coupla' thoughts buddy:

$2 - 4K isn't crazy. I think Lipp said earlier, but I'll say again ... it's a good way to start out. But, be careful, take your time and be willing to walk away until you find the right boat.

At the moment, I think you're struggling to figure out what the right boat is. I suggest to folks all the time - go lurk at some of the dealerships and/or rent from a local marina and try stuff out. Go to the pontoon guys, be up front that you're just window shoppin' and see what you like and don't like. Run over to the fishing boats, the bowriders, etc.,etc., and just climb around and see what's comfortable. Window shoppin' can be kinda' fun. That might help solid up an idea of what you want ...

Then you can better comb the ads for what you're lookin' for.

We have looked at 4 boats so far and been total JUNK. Such as weak floors, blistering, jerry rigged equipment, rear tie downs would sway in the wind, and even had 1 where the motor mounts were totally rusted out. That alone been adding to the frustration that price range is to low or people are WAY over pricing JUNK. Think they have a boat show this weekend we will attend along with hitting a few boat show rooms. Being early in the season has been a huge help in keeping things in perspective and time to learn. Come spring we plan on scouting a few local marinas for boats as well.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Also, if you are swaying towards a boat that will be agreeable to your wife and family, you will probably need to think about one that has the 'restroom' onboard.

Larger bowriders usually have them in the port side console and cuddies are basically a restroom in themselves.

I was thinking about getting a 'fishing' boat as a means of getting outboard motors versus the I/O that I currently have. The issues that I found were less comforts for the crew and higher price. That is what seems to make these older I/O boats attractive - more for your $$$$

Restrooms will not be a problem we sorta got that part worked out. I/O in my opinion seems a little more costly to repair and maintain the motor and out drive, compared to an out board that is more accessible.Then again i may be wrong and and will have a lot to do with personal preference. Taking into account i,m a newb as well lol.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Some of the older makos or a grady white with cuddy cab may suit your req's and price as have room for a private head. Ones like Trophy's would suit you but may be a bit high in price unless u can locate a reposessed sale. Sadly plenty of those around. Have a look at the repo sites.Heres some links to ones I know of that does not cost to access.
http://certifiedsales.com/listing_power.htm
http://www.laniermarine.com/pre_owned_list.asp?GroupBy=&newused=U&TypeID=82 (not specifically repo does have them in stock)

Also here is a link to the NADA price guide to assist you with what older boats may be worth:
http://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/

Thank you very much for the links! NADA prices seem to be all over the place with the pricing, and then need to take into account the motor as well that requires another search from NADA.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

when you're shopping for 18-12' boats in the $2-4K range, you have to live with incomplete ads, no sea trials, no surveys, and broken periferal equipment (stereo's, for example). It's a drive up, kick the tires, pay cash and drive away deal. You focus on the motor, and the hull if you are getting one of those designs that rot. The good boats in that range will sell in 1/2 a day. Grab and go. Your low price balances the risk.
your purchase price is the down payment. Be able to repower within 2 years--and hope you don't have to. Have at least $800 cash more on hand for start-up costs.
As hostage said, pick your boat BEFORE you start shopping.

on old boats, NADA is as accurate as the gas gauge--tain't.

Minor issues i am will to take the risks, the larger issues what i been trying to avoid. Obsolete motors, bad motors, water logged and rotted hulls/transoms, floors. Something i buy take out once and sits in garage for a season or two. Only to end up doing major repairs ending up costing far more then the boat is worth and will ever get back out of it. That where my lack of knowledge and hesitation kicks in.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

To add to Home Cookin's point when I really "started" looking at boats I was looking in the ~$4k range bow rider or cuddy. One was sold a couple days after I looked at it, another one was purchased as soon as I got there. It felt frustrating as people were willing to pay for boats and not even try it out, so it was hard to compete in that range. The boat I got I negotiated a new prop and took 500 off of the asking price ($7500) total.The ~$4k boats I started looking at were in very similar condition so the market seemed to price them well. They also seemed to be in similar condition and were all early to mid 90's boats w/ wood deck that was carpeted. The difference in condition and features to my 2000 Maxum was extraordinary. My g/f was not happy about me spending that money on a boat, until she saw it. Here are the features that my boat came with:

Swim Platform (some boats from 90's had them, but not all)
Waterproof Stringers (none of the boats had this, so they could rot and be more expensive than the boat was worth)
Fiberglass Liner deck (no rot on this deck, none of the 90's boats that I looked at had this)
Snap-in Carpet: It is easy to clean and remove if need be. (none of the 90's boats had this)
Upgraded Stereo (guy put in a newer stereo so I can plug my ipod to listen to music)
Newer 4.3L (190hp), - All the other older 4.3L I looked at were only 175hp
Better Hull design - Has a little step in the hull to increase performance
Head - While all the cuddys I looked at had a portapotty, this one actually had a pump out head, which is rare on a 19ft boat
Table - This boat had a table that folded out of the engine cover.
Cup Holders - This boat had a lot more cup holders, while some of the older boats had none
Modern Design - The boat had a more modern look compared to the old leftover look from the 80's and 70's
Snap On Cover - Boat came with a snap-on cockpit cover, while some of the other boats didn't
Screen on Cuddy Hatch - Helps keep bugs out
Stairway to cuddy deck - No other boats 90's boats I looked at had this feature, making it difficult to access the anchor.
Condition - Much better condition with less wear and tear than the other boats I looked at

Pictures of the boat I got for $7500:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...I/AAAAAAAAAMU/7usNHV-dQNQ/s800/0519001703.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JCQ4L26YEVQ/TzKGQL5vnyI/AAAAAAAAANE/LMk6HSMQOqQ/s800/IMG_1342.jpg

Again thank you hostage for the insightful information! Great looking boat for $7500, perhaps i will be fortunate enough to come across a gem. All i can do is have patience and keep the search going.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

... Boater education is not required here for people born after 1982 i believe unless it is for use of a PWC. Although they do offer free classes plus the price of the book that is 29.95, i will attend with my children and wife. One can never be to safe or over educated...

There are a lot of plus's to be said of a sit down classroom course.

If it is hard to add one to your schedule, may I recommend a good Online Course.
You won't blow through this one!
https://elearning.boatus.org/

It is also No cost, unless you want them to mail you the fancy wall diploma.

EDIT ------------------- EDIT

Ooops!

I just looked up the Pennsylvania requirements.
You will not get a Certificate for this course.
PA requires you to take their course.

But as you indicated,
You do not have the age requirement,
and there is no such thing as Too much knowledge.

 

[hog88]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth of advise.

1 - I disagree with the people talking about resale or even considering a boat (one the size your talking about) an investment where you can get your money back. The investment is in the quality time, fun with family and friends and the pleasure you get from boating. Set your budget with this in mind.

2 - Don't forget, your kids will want to bring their friends along at some point. Take into account you will be loading up 2 or 3 more people, their gear, food and drinks. If your kids fall in love with boating so will your wife and then everyone wins.

3 - Reliablity, you an your wife will HATE boating if your constanly fixing or paying to fix something or worse yet you get stuck out in the middle of the lake. You can always add accesories and and such as you find you need or want them.

4 - Fuel economy is overated unless you are doing some long cruising. If you plan on tubing or skiing (which with kids you will) you want power. Got to pull them up quick or they will not enjoy learning.

5 - You can fish from any boat....

 

[hostage]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

No problem, I am trying to remember all the stuff I had to go through, that way it should be easier for you to find your gem. There are pro's and con's when it comes to i/o vs outboard. From what I hear outboard is a lot less maintenance. You don't have to worry about bellows, which can be $500-$1000 to replace (parts and labor) maybe about about $150 in parts if you do it yourself. Also you don't have holes in your hulls that the bellows seal. I know someone who sank his cuddy from a broken bellow, though it isn't a common occurrence.

The outboard makes a bit of sense, though I still prefer the i/o's as I view the boats as larger, more comfortable, and a larger selection in the boats I prefer. Outboards are simpler, though it is hard and expensive to get one for a good price in a runabout that could fit your family and some friends.

Just because you don't have a fishing boat, doesn't mean you can't fish from the boat, on my cuddy I have easily and comfortably fit 3 people fishing (1 from bow and two from stern), while we had 5 people total on the boat. In an open bow you could prob get 4. Going with a "specialty boat" can put you into a corner. I would never get a fishing boat or a high performance boat for those reasons. Also it can be very difficult to find a outboard that has a swim platform.

Lastly if you do decide to go with a "fishing boat", living both in Texas and Upstate NY. The preferences in fishing boats are drastically different, mainly because of the conditions. In Texas most of the lakes are glass compared to the rougher waters of the great lakes and finger lakes. The bass boat seems to be a favorite down in Texas, though I would never want to step aboard one up here. Up here there are a lot of center console boats, I think I have only seen one bass boat up here in NY.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Let me throw in my 2 cents worth of advise.

1 - I disagree with the people talking about resale or even considering a boat (one the size your talking about) an investment where you can get your money back. The investment is in the quality time, fun with family and friends and the pleasure you get from boating. Set your budget with this in mind.

2 - Don't forget, your kids will want to bring their friends along at some point. Take into account you will be loading up 2 or 3 more people, their gear, food and drinks. If your kids fall in love with boating so will your wife and then everyone wins.

3 - Reliablity, you an your wife will HATE boating if your constanly fixing or paying to fix something or worse yet you get stuck out in the middle of the lake. You can always add accesories and and such as you find you need or want them.

4 - Fuel economy is overated unless you are doing some long cruising. If you plan on tubing or skiing (which with kids you will) you want power. Got to pull them up quick or they will not enjoy learning.

5 - You can fish from any boat....

Being my first boat i more or less looking for a trial and error boat.Something for a season or 2 to get a feel for the pro's and con's along with being worth a future investment in a much better, even bigger boat in the future. I known a few people including avid fishermen who bought a decent boat only to sell it a year or 2 later being it was not for them be it time the hassles or whatever there reasons. Although you bring up some very valid points, especially with the friends and kids. We taking the attitude prepare for the best yet expect the worse. Something we are also taking into account is a slight to moderate hit on resale in the event it not for us or we want to go all in on a worth while boat that will bring plenty of fun for everyone over the following years.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

No problem, I am trying to remember all the stuff I had to go through, that way it should be easier for you to find your gem. There are pro's and con's when it comes to i/o vs outboard. From what I hear outboard is a lot less maintenance. You don't have to worry about bellows, which can be $500-$1000 to replace (parts and labor) maybe about about $150 in parts if you do it yourself. Also you don't have holes in your hulls that the bellows seal. I know someone who sank his cuddy from a broken bellow, though it isn't a common occurrence.

The outboard makes a bit of sense, though I still prefer the i/o's as I view the boats as larger, more comfortable, and a larger selection in the boats I prefer. Outboards are simpler, though it is hard and expensive to get one for a good price in a runabout that could fit your family and some friends.

Just because you don't have a fishing boat, doesn't mean you can't fish from the boat, on my cuddy I have easily and comfortably fit 3 people fishing (1 from bow and two from stern), while we had 5 people total on the boat. In an open bow you could prob get 4. Going with a "specialty boat" can put you into a corner. I would never get a fishing boat or a high performance boat for those reasons. Also it can be very difficult to find a outboard that has a swim platform.

Lastly if you do decide to go with a "fishing boat", living both in Texas and Upstate NY. The preferences in fishing boats are drastically different, mainly because of the conditions. In Texas most of the lakes are glass compared to the rougher waters of the great lakes and finger lakes. The bass boat seems to be a favorite down in Texas, though I would never want to step aboard one up here. Up here there are a lot of center console boats, I think I have only seen one bass boat up here in NY.

Being From PA will be mostly river use perhaps lake Erie or the Yough dam with a larger boat. Being most of the lakes around here are for 9.9 to 20 hp max. As far as a fishing boat here a simple v haul or jon boat will be more then capable of filling all my fishing needs.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

There are a lot of plus's to be said of a sit down classroom course.

If it is hard to add one to your schedule, may I recommend a good Online Course.
You won't blow through this one!
https://elearning.boatus.org/

It is also No cost, unless you want them to mail you the fancy wall diploma.

EDIT ------------------- EDIT

Ooops!

I just looked up the Pennsylvania requirements.
You will not get a Certificate for this course.
PA requires you to take their course.

But as you indicated,
You do not have the age requirement,
and there is no such thing as Too much knowledge.

My son being 19 had to planed to do so to use/rent Jet Ski's. He would also need it to operate any boat greater then 25 HP, Along with my daughter who is only 11. In the event i do go larger then a simple fishing boat rest assured i will be taking the course as well as the wife.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Can anyone assist me with makes and models of a DC outside of Mako and Boston Whaler?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

the whole family should take it, take it together. doesn't matter what size boat you have; it's not about how to operate them. Indded, smaller boats can be way more dangerous than big ones. And you have to deal with big ones when you are in your small ones.

Plus you may get a break on your insurance.

 

[southkogs]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Burgh - I've kinda' lost it in the thread: what kind of budget were you looking at? Who made it may not matter much.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

2-4k Southkogs...
jdlough sparked my interest on outboard powered Dual Console boats, with the fiberglass self-bailing decks along with being little more durable. Really like what i seen with the Boston whalers, Makos even the McKee craft i looked at. Why i was asking for other boats to look into and even read up on.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

you're on the right track with OB, self-bailing, fiberglass deck. They are designed to last. Old mako's, but not new ones. Any whaler. MCKee's are a whaler copy but not as good. Don't rule out a center console with built-in bow seating; the best design for general family recreational use. But because they are a top design, they are easy to find on the water and hard to find old used ones for sale.

Look online at new boats for design (Sea Hunt, Whaler, Carolina Skiff, Palm Beach, Scout) then go try to find one.

 

[Burgh_fisher]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Thank you very much Home Cooking, the starting point i was seeking!

 

[Philster]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

Wellcraft DC is an option, too.

 

[southkogs]

Re: 2nd Try at first boat...Opinions

You might not write off the tinnys in your range either - Starcraft, Lund and maybe even Lowe. At $2K -$4k, you'll be looking more at condition than manufacturer. Expand your search outside your local area too ... being willing to drive an hour or three might bring some better results.