81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

These guys posted quite a few 200+hp twins @ another forum I scan thru. Their site doesn't list the twins seperately, so you have to shop each brand to find them.

Hope the Admiral's 1st 'real' celebration of the 4th was a smashing success!

It was an excellent 4th. She thanked me for a great day.

One of the boats in our yard was coming back in the other day and Q said "Hey look, he's got twin Yamaha 200s". So we went over to look at them. His boat is about 30', a center console, and the engines are 2006 models. They looked great. Not all that big looking. And of course the color was right. The guy said he'd bet twin 225s wold make my boat really haul. One thing I've found, is people seem to overestimate the size of my boat because most of the boats in the yard are center consoles or bow riders. But mine is really only a 26' boat (SRV 255, so I'll say 25 when I go to a marina, lol). Since the bridge is sticking way up in the air, I think they get the wrong impression of its size.

I'm pretty convinced I will be looking for Yamahas when the time is right. From talking to the sales guy at the Miami Boat Show, my feeling is that the 225s are built on a little bit bigger block than the 200s. Original power, which was the max offering on my boat, was twin 170 HP I/Os. So I think twin 200s will be more than adequate, especially since:

1) I don't need speed, just a nice cruising speed.

2) Have heard the newer outboards HP rating is different than the old I/Os and that the difference between twin 170 HP I/Os and twin 200 OBs is even greater than the numbers would indicate.

3) I am interested in better fuel economy. I suspect 200s to be a little nicer on the wallet than 225s.

4) All the engine sales guys at the boat shows said even 175s would be fine.

5) Don't want to be overpowered.

6) Hopefully, 200s will be a bit less expensive as well.

Wow! I think I've convinced myself.

Anyway, engines are down the road a ways yet, but its good to watch all along so I will know a good deal when I see it, when the time is right.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]A Little Cutting Today[/h]I did manage to get a little time out back of the salon today. Man, it was hot again. Can you tell that the heat and I don’t get along very well?

I cut 2 pieces that will traverse all the way across the top of the transom to close the 8” gap between the cockpit deck and the transom. I will be cutting out a lot of the above deck portion of the transom (just a FG shell, non-structural for the transom) to make doorways to the swim platform on each side, leaving seating/storage in the middle. These pieces, once FG’d, will be at the same level and slope as the cockpit deck, and will add sufficient strength from the gunwales around the transom. I’ll post pictures of this when I get closer.

I also cut out the support board for the water tank. Funny how you suddenly realize you can't go forward with something until several other steps are completed first. For example, I got the starboard floorboard down the other day. But to do the port floorboard, I first have to cut the holes in the stringers for water tank access. In order to do that, I have to put in the water tank support structure. In order to do that I have to put the extras layer of FG I want in the center of the hull. Whew!

On all the pieces I cut today, I did roll over the edges with my router. I’m trying to see if I can get a little better FG coverage over the board edges.

Anyway, I hope to take the newly cut boards to the boat for fitting and then FG them tomorrow.

Sea ya…

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]OK, Need Some Design Help Here[/h]As I reported yesterday, I cut a piece for the water tank support. When I went to fit that piece in the hull, I found that the water tank sits just a little too high. So instead of a FG?d board across the bottom of the stringers, I need to do something else.

Here?s where the tank will go:

And this is the tank:

Here is a template of the shape of the tank sitting in the hull:

So I?m hoping someone can suggest a support structure that is typical for a water tank of this shape. I mean it is obviously made to fit in this section of the hull. The thing I worry about is just setting the tank on the hull may put to much pressure on the hull. Gotta spread the load.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Sea ya?

 

[scoutabout]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hey Cap - been popping in and out for a couple months now and really enjoying seeing your project come along. That boat with some big twin Yams is going to be sweet. Got me a puny lil 90 horse but just love the brand. Sewing machine smooth, quiet, and bulletproof. Can ya tell I'm unbiased!

Anyway - with respect to that water tank, it seems to me it's probably best supported just flat on a couple extra layers of glass, no? Think about it. Large surface area that will always have its weight more or less evenly distributed across a large area, no matter how full it is. Putting stringers or other structure under it will just introduce pressure points.

Anyway, I've got zero building experience so just tossing ideas.

Very nice work, regardless. Carry on sir!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Probably already late to the party, as usual...but maybe this could work...?

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hey Cap - been popping in and out for a couple months now and really enjoying seeing your project come along. That boat with some big twin Yams is going to be sweet. Got me a puny lil 90 horse but just love the brand. Sewing machine smooth, quiet, and bulletproof. Can ya tell I'm unbiased!

Anyway - with respect to that water tank, it seems to me it's probably best supported just flat on a couple extra layers of glass, no? Think about it. Large surface area that will always have its weight more or less evenly distributed across a large area, no matter how full it is. Putting stringers or other structure under it will just introduce pressure points.

Anyway, I've got zero building experience so just tossing ideas.

Very nice work, regardless. Carry on sir!

Hey scoutabout, glad you're watching.

The bottom of the tank has a flat section, 8" wide. Then it angles up toward the sides. Unfortunately, the angle doesn't match the angle of the hull. Anyway, if I just place the tank in the hull, I was worried all the pressure would be on two thin strips of the hull.

Let's discuss it a bit more with GT's pic.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Probably already late to the party, as usual...but maybe this could work...?

Thanks GT. Yeah, I've been thinking about a board glassed and tabbed in. Same concern as I replied to scoutabout above, pressure on two strips of the hull. However, in the case of your picture, the tabbing would spread the load across the tabbing, not just the point of contact of the board.

Only problem is the tabbing will only be on the top of the board since I wouldn't be able to get to the bottom. That brings up what I was actually thinking about and that is to fully glass the board in: side, front, back, and no holes. That way the pocket should always stay dry. Remember, this section is in the salon and protected from the elements. The only time there would be water in here is if I had a leak in the tank (will have a bilge pump in that compartment). or, OMG, if I hit something or a wave came over the stern. The area under the tank board, being closed, would be one more flotation chamber in an emergency (kinda like the Titanic, lol). What do you think about closing it up?

Then the last issue is, do the angled portions of the tank need to be supported or do they make the tanks strong enough to just sit on their flat bottoms? I was thinking about glassing rails onto the stringers to support the edges of thhe tank.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]Weekend Update[/h]The weekend includes Mondays for me since our salon is closed on Monday. Anyway, over the weekend, I got some significant time on the boat. Much of the time was spent glassing some boards I had cut. Two were for the gunwale modifications, two were for the transom top support, and one was a small filler for the starboard floorboard that I put down last week. As you all know, many steps. Cutting, fitting, acetone wash, initial resin coat, a layer of CSM, a layer of 1708. Then the same for the other side. Oh, forgot to mention how much time cutting the FG seems to consume.

All that went pretty well, except I had a problem with one board. My fault. I tried to get too much done on one resin mix in the hot Florida sun. The resin started kicking as I was rolling the resin into the CSM layer. The CSM wouldn’t stick, so I pulled it off so I wouldn’t have a huge grinding chore. The next day, I cut a replacement piece of CSM, and for some reason, it wouldn’t stick either. So I pulled that one off. All the other boards were OK, so it wasn’t the resin or the mix. I guess I’ll give it a little time and take the grinder/sander to it and get back to fresh ply. Then I’ll do that board again (one side, as the other side went OK).

So, the little floorboard piece. The floorboard space was 8’ 8” long and the piece I put down last week was cut from a 4’ x 8’ sheet of ply. That left 8” to fill. I figured I should give that priority so that when I pick up the grinder the next time, I won't be filling the hull with dust that I can't reach to clean. Well I got that little piece in place today and then peanut buttered around the entire floorboard. It’s sealed. No dust issues. Will tab it in next.

Spent a little time on the bridge with some Styrofoam templates I had made to help me design the passenger side seating. Mrs. Kick Back wants a rear facing sun lounge type of seat. I’ll post more on that seat a little later. She has been after me to get something designed so she can get to doing some upholstery work.

Did a little fitting of the staircase. Close but not yet right. It was getting dark so I figured I’ll have a look at it I better light.
Spent another hour sitting on the boat in the dark just thinking. What do I need to do here? What should I do there? You all know what I mean.

Sea ya…

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Thanks GT. Yeah, I've been thinking about a board glassed and tabbed in. Same concern as I replied to scoutabout above, pressure on two strips of the hull. However, in the case of your picture, the tabbing would spread the load across the tabbing, not just the point of contact of the board.

Only problem is the tabbing will only be on the top of the board since I wouldn't be able to get to the bottom. That brings up what I was actually thinking about and that is to fully glass the board in: side, front, back, and no holes. That way the pocket should always stay dry. Remember, this section is in the salon and protected from the elements. The only time there would be water in here is if I had a leak in the tank (will have a bilge pump in that compartment). or, OMG, if I hit something or a wave came over the stern. The area under the tank board, being closed, would be one more flotation chamber in an emergency (kinda like the Titanic, lol). What do you think about closing it up?

Then the last issue is, do the angled portions of the tank need to be supported or do they make the tanks strong enough to just sit on their flat bottoms? I was thinking about glassing rails onto the stringers to support the edges of thhe tank.

Sea ya...

Hi CK,
Missed this in the last day or so, and just got caught up on your Weekend Update...Great Progress...

Now on to some of your questions and concerns, regarding the water tank...

Assuming you have pre-fit the support board, taken into account the finished/installed height of all the glass/board/tank/etc. and added layers of glass mat to the underside for waterproofing...

Since you obviously can't get to the underside of the support board, once it is installed...I would suggest the following for mounting it...light grind where it makes contact along the hull, slow mix of PB adhesive along all four contact edges and slap it down...top it off by filling the edges with PB and tabbing...

I suppose you could make it water tight or you could even fill the cavity with expanding foam...I just figure that since it is a water tank, and hopefully not, but if it should ever spring a leak, you could provide drainage to the bilge...But your idea of installing a Emergency back-up bilge pump in there sounds good, too...I might go so far as making a nice solid stepped edge hatch that could be secured 99% of the time, yet removable in the event of needing service, but that is sort of overkill, I guess...:redface:

As far as strength is concerned, once you tab in the piece, and add a couple layers of 1708/CSM all the way across, you should be "tank" strong...If anything you could add a layer of rubber mat under the water tank for added insulation/isolation, and since everything, the fiberglass of the hull, the water tank, and even the rubber mat, if you use it, are all flexible, thick and strong in there own rights...Plus, I think if you install the water tank with all three facets of the bottom making even contact with the hull and support, that will spread any loading forces evenly over the entire bottom of the tank...I think you should be A-OK...barring of course running aground at full speed...or hitting an Iceberg...:facepalm:

Just thought of something else, too...the water inside the tank also helps to spread the load, since it will provide resistance to the forces applied from the outside...

Have a great week...

Later,
GT

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hi CK,
Missed this in the last day or so, and just got caught up on your Weekend Update...Great Progress...

Now on to some of your questions and concerns, regarding the water tank...

Assuming you have pre-fit the support board, taken into account the finished/installed height of all the glass/board/tank/etc. and added layers of glass mat to the underside for waterproofing...

Since you obviously can't get to the underside of the support board, once it is installed...I would suggest the following for mounting it...light grind where it makes contact along the hull, slow mix of PB adhesive along all four contact edges and slap it down...top it off by filling the edges with PB and tabbing...

I suppose you could make it water tight or you could even fill the cavity with expanding foam...I just figure that since it is a water tank, and hopefully not, but if it should ever spring a leak, you could provide drainage to the bilge...But your idea of installing a Emergency back-up bilge pump in there sounds good, too...I might go so far as making a nice solid stepped edge hatch that could be secured 99% of the time, yet removable in the event of needing service, but that is sort of overkill, I guess...:redface:

As far as strength is concerned, once you tab in the piece, and add a couple layers of 1708/CSM all the way across, you should be "tank" strong...If anything you could add a layer of rubber mat under the water tank for added insulation/isolation, and since everything, the fiberglass of the hull, the water tank, and even the rubber mat, if you use it, are all flexible, thick and strong in there own rights...Plus, I think if you install the water tank with all three facets of the bottom making even contact with the hull and support, that will spread any loading forces evenly over the entire bottom of the tank...I think you should be A-OK...barring of course running aground at full speed...or hitting an Iceberg...:facepalm:

Just thought of something else, too...the water inside the tank also helps to spread the load, since it will provide resistance to the forces applied from the outside...

Have a great week...

Later,
GT

Thanks GT. I believe I will do the flat board across the bottom, tabbed well to spread the load. In addition, I will tab some rails on the sides of the stringer to support the edges of the tank. That should be plenty strong, both for the hull and the tank.

Yeah, I planned the forward bilge pump all along. Since this is in the salon, there will hopefully never be any water in there, except from a water tank leak (which won't sink the boat). But, I can't preclude the possibility of taking an unexpected wave over then stern which would dump a lot of water into the salon. So this bilge pump will be under a removable step into the salon.

Actually, I am a firm believer in big bilge pumps. In addition to this one, I plan 2 in the bilge, one being a high water pump (with suitable alarm). All three pumps will be 1500 gph each, all on separate batteries. Overkill? Maybe. Safety? Definitely!

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

No Work Today

But I did get to FGCI and got 5 more gallons of resin, some microballoons, Cabosil, milled fibers, and MEKP.

Ready to go for a while.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]Bad Wood, Bad Wood[/h]If you remember the other day, I posted about the one piece of wood (bad wood) where I couldn’t get the CSM to lay down. Today, I ground it back to bare wood, cleaned it with acetone, cut a new piece of CSM, primed it with a coat of resin, laid down the CSM (it stuck this time), and followed it with a layer 0f 1708.

Looking good now. Tomorrow, I hope to get these two pieces put onto the top of the transom.

Sea ya…

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hi CK,

Glad to hear the wood learned its lesson and decided to do the right thing this time...bad, naughty wood...:facepalm:

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Way to show 'em who's boss! Sounds good!

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hi CK,

Glad to hear the wood learned its lesson and decided to do the right thing this time...bad, naughty wood...:facepalm:

Thanks GT. Second time's the charm on this one.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Way to show 'em who's boss! Sounds good!

Yeah, I'm da man! ... Da man that screwed it up in the first place. Gotta remember: no resin in the afternoon, or do smaller batches.

Sea ya...

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]1708 Resin Quantity Question[/h]Today, I was doing a rough and scuff on several pieces of ply that had CSM and 1708 on both sides. I was using a 4.5? grinder and just lightly roughing the surface. But it was doing something weird. It was balling up pieces (lots of them) of a resin and glass mix.

The 1708 had been put down 4 or 5 days ago, with no wax, so the surface was a bit tacky. However, I?ve done this before a number of times and never got this result.

Could it be there was not enough resin in the 1708? Any ideas?

Sea ya?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Pix of the scuffed surface, and the balled/pilled resin/fibers might help a trained eye ID the problem better.

I don't even play an ex-pert on TV & haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in almost a year.

So take this for what it's worth (about a penny & a half):

If it was still slightly tacky, I'd suspect the wet weather/humidity & MEKP % had more to do w/ it then the volume of resin applied. If there wasn't enough resin, the 1708 would have wicked some away from the ply surface, or vice versa, and I'd think it would have tacked off more (dried, hardened, kicked) not less & had a weaker bond.

It would have looked that way (under resin'd) & you would have noticed it looked different since you've been working with the resin & doing all that fab/construction w/ it.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I tend to agree with JBC, possibly a batch that you thought had the right amount of MEK-P, but didn't...or some moisture related problem...

Did it look fairly transparent before the grinding? or was is a bit milky? I had a few spots, where huge sweat drops got caught under the cloth and on the surface it seemed hard, but it was a little milky...I didn't like the way they looked, and when I dug them out with the dremel, I had the same results...sticky, hairy and kind of gooey...

Was the wood maybe damp from humidity?

You mentioned you had gotten some fresh resin, I think...sometimes different batches of layup resin act a bit different from one another...

Just throwing out some thoughts...

I hope you can solve the mystery...curious to know if you do...

Later,
GT

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Now that you guys mentioned all these things, I'm leaning toward something mix related. After all, I would have been diagnosed ADD when I was a kid (they called it hyper-active then) and put on Ridlin had it been around. Point being, I do get distracted easily.

Anyway, the boards lived in the A/C all week, yet still probably tackier than they should have been.

Well, got some things done at home this morning. About to head over to the boat. Got lots of things on the agenda, but its funny how one never seems to get half of what they planned done. Kind of like taking more food than you can eat.

Sea ya...