85 Capri...frightening project boat

[i386]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

The gutting phase is hard work. Grinding sucks. No way around it. I highly recommend using an organic vapor mask, not a cheap dust mask. Fiberglass is bad enough, but you can also get a nasty respiratory infection from all that old funky stuff in there. Try to enjoy your project and take some time off of it when you need to so you don't get burned out.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Here is the info on the marine vinyl place (I know I emailed it to you, but figured I'd post it for others too).

Southeastern Foam Rubber 1409 Progress Ave High Point, NC 27260. Phone # 336-882-6881. Don't know if they have a website.

I called and I guess they have limited colors. They sell it for like $4 per yard + shipping (which isn't bad). Bought from them twice and they were very nice to deal with.

 

[kbomb]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Here's an update for ya...I feel like an idiot

Took out the fuel tank the other day...

...but in the process of cutting out the adjacent stringer, I accidentally cut into the tank.

That was stupid. I deal with that at a later time.

On a new topic, I roughly estimated time and costs for the remainder of the project and it comes to $2700 and 132 hours. I think I'm a bit high on the hours estimate, but still it will probably be 90 to 110, I think. In a new post, I'll show how I came up with that rough estimate if you are interested.

Based on this estimate I decided to focus some energy on the motor because this could potentially become the most costly. If the motor is no good, I'm not sure I want to continue. I did a compression test a couple of weeks ago and got abnormally high numbers (185 psi) so I figured the motor is in good shape. How could compression be this high?? I guess I'll deal with that later too...Although, your thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciated.

After reading for many hours here, I have determined the cooling system is one of the more common issues folks have with the AQ125, so i decided to start examining there. The guy I bought it from had confessed when I bought it that it had overheated and he shut it down right away and rowed it in. It sat since then.

I discovered that the hose on the transom was full of sand and I shook it out onto the ground:

I removed the stern drive cooling hose and discovered the transom neck was fully clogged with sand. Strangely, there was not an ounce of sand beyond the transom neck. The rubber hose leading from the transom to the copper hose was clean as a whistle. The transom neck came unclogged easily with some compressed air.

Next, I took off the impeller cover to check it out. I figured it would be all messed up, but was surprised to see that it still appears intact. Here's what it looks like:

Does that look like an oversized impeller that was crammed in there? Or is that how it is supposed to look? The factory manual I have doesn't show how it looks with the impeller installed. It only shows the impeller being placed on the shaft outside of the housing.

So that's what's going on with my Capri project...Thanks for following and for all of your great advise and tips!!!

 

[kbomb]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Here is the spreadsheet I came up with today for the rundown of costs in time and dollars to repair this beast. I am certain many of these estimates are too high. That's usually how I estimate big projects though. I figure that way I when I complete it quicker and cheaper, I'll be pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, I try to always account for the worse case scenario's (Murphy).

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[oops!]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

kbomb

i love the spread sheet.....really cool......

the money part is ok to figgure out....

the labor.....double your estimate....

as far as i know ...on this site there is only one guy that can pump them out fast....he puts them out by himself faster then bayliner can do one.

boat building is somthing that can get you standing there looking at it for hours.......the highs and lows of building are tremendous......

read the current link called.....getting frustrated......that guy is an airplane mechanic.....

then read the hull extension thread.... in the beginning i wanted to have the extension section done in a weekend.....20 hours of work.....

it took me over 3 months to get the molds off.

murphy is a jerk....he's not welcome ...but he shows up every day

im not discouraging you.....go for it...well be here to help any way we can.

its a worthwile project and it will make you laugh cry sweat swear and smile.

but its allways best to just jump in there and getter done!

cheers
oops

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

one thing on your spreadsheet I didn't understand was the "gelcoat hull bottom, stringers, cross supports". I don't understand why the stringers and cross supports would need gelcoat and not just fiberglass.. And when you said Hull Bottom. Are you talking about the inside bottom (like where the stringers are) or outside (where it touches the water). Either way, I don't see why it would need gelcoat..

 

[JAL51974]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

What a job...more power to you!

We basically have the same boat I think. That impeller is the right size...they are squeezed into that space. When you replace it, use some dish soap liquid and it goes into its place a lot easier. These engines do over heat if the water isn't circulating around the piping to the heat exchanger. Think of it like a car: the antifreeze circulates in the radiator, cooled by airflow. This engine has contained antifreeze in the engine, but its cooled by water flow from the drive through the system of piping, to the water pump on the front and through the heat exchanger and out the exhaust finally. That whole system of piping for water flow has to be perfectly sealed- or it sucks air instead of water and the engine overheats. All the washers, spacers, fasteners all along the route of piping from the drive all the way around have to be right or you will get problems. Let me know when you get there and I will describe how I solved that problem two seasons ago!

Keep asking questions,

Joe

 

[kbomb]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

one thing on your spreadsheet I didn't understand was the "gelcoat hull bottom, stringers, cross supports". I don't understand why the stringers and cross supports would need gelcoat and not just fiberglass.. And when you said Hull Bottom. Are you talking about the inside bottom (like where the stringers are) or outside (where it touches the water). Either way, I don't see why it would need gelcoat..

That's because I'm a rookie and don't know exactly what I'm doing.

 

[kbomb]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

What a job...more power to you!

We basically have the same boat I think. That impeller is the right size...they are squeezed into that space. When you replace it, use some dish soap liquid and it goes into its place a lot easier. These engines do over heat if the water isn't circulating around the piping to the heat exchanger. Think of it like a car: the antifreeze circulates in the radiator, cooled by airflow. This engine has contained antifreeze in the engine, but its cooled by water flow from the drive through the system of piping, to the water pump on the front and through the heat exchanger and out the exhaust finally. That whole system of piping for water flow has to be perfectly sealed- or it sucks air instead of water and the engine overheats. All the washers, spacers, fasteners all along the route of piping from the drive all the way around have to be right or you will get problems. Let me know when you get there and I will describe how I solved that problem two seasons ago!

Keep asking questions,

Joe

Joe, Thanks for your tips! That's awesome.

It turns out the impeller key was not in place. I think the PO was fiddling around in there after he got home from the lake the day it overheated.

I took it apart cleaned out a little sand replaced the key and put it all back together.

BTW, the impeller says Johnson. But I guess if it fits...

I changed the oil and filter and spark plugs and attempted to fire it up today, but there was no spark. The distributor rotor, cap and points are in bad shape. The rotor was rusted on the shaft. It broke when I removed it. So I'm going to order new rotor, cap, points and condenser and we'll go from there. I'm super close to scrapping this whole project...Seriously.

Not that I don't enjoy it. I actually do. But I just don't see this being the right boat project for me considering it will cost at least 130 more hours and $3,000.

I'm thinking of parting it all out and cutting my losses...

I still want to do a boat project, but I think I'll look for something a little smaller and a motor with less expensive parts as well as more availability for parts. I'm pretty sure this one will be in my garage for 1-2 years if I keep atter. That just doesn't sound appealing to me.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

I can't blame you for re-evaluating this project after tearing into it and doing your spreadsheet. I believe in project plans and cost sheets.

I do think you can find a good boat for $3000, and just have maintenance to do, not a complete stringer/floor/transom rebuild. Especially now that you see how bad a neglected boat can be, you know better what to look for.

If you sell off this project, and look for another boat, I suggest looking for boats that although 10 or 20 years old, were stored indoors. That is a sure sign that the boat was well maintained, and chances for a rotten hull/transom are much less. Plus, bring a drill and check the transom from the inside and stringers before you buy. Boats stored indoors tend to not sit with water soaking into the stringers and transom. They also tend to have much lower hours of use than boats that sit in the water at a marina all season.

Just something to think about.

 

[tonyg11780]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Hey man, something else to look at on that water pump. If you remove the impeller and the vanes dont flex back to being straight, or if they stay bent and in the shape it is in now you need to replace it. The vanes are supposed to be soft and flexible. After a while, they become hard and conform to the shape of the housing which will kill your water pressure.

Tony

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

You really need to get the motor taken care of before you waste any more effort on the hull. When we got my boat (a $200 basket case) we first tried to see if we could get the 85 Johnson started. Once we did that, we took the boat to a mechanic and had him thoroughly go over the motor (plugs, wires, rebuild carbs, water pump, etc). Then we took the boat out, sitting on lawn chairs, to make sure it performed well. When it did, I took it back home and started on the deck and interior. I actually then used it an entire season before painting the exterior before the next season. Good luck.

 

[slia67]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

kbomb,

Maybe you have covered this already and I didn't notice, but... have you checked the transom yet for rot?

Doug

 

[JAL51974]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

I understand where you are at in evaluating whether to continue. I think you could get a decent boat for 3K as Mark said without having to do a whole rebuild of floor, etc.

Once you get the new ignition parts installed you can see what shape the motor is in---either way you need to know that if you keep it or part it out.
If you decide to keep it get an electronic ignition module from Pertronix, an easy modification and no more points & condenser!

Just remembered on that water pump, there is a seal between it and the motor itself that can go bad, leads to leaks and overheat condition.

Joe

 

[kbomb]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

I understand where you are at in evaluating whether to continue. I think you could get a decent boat for 3K as Mark said without having to do a whole rebuild of floor, etc.

Once you get the new ignition parts installed you can see what shape the motor is in---either way you need to know that if you keep it or part it out.
If you decide to keep it get an electronic ignition module from Pertronix, an easy modification and no more points & condenser!

Just remembered on that water pump, there is a seal between it and the motor itself that can go bad, leads to leaks and overheat condition.

Joe

Thanks Jal. I may end up getting the electronic ignition you recommend actually. I did get the motor running today. Long story on that below for those interested--and a youtube vid of the test run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWxUMFRLtTg

You'll see that there is a leak at the water pump. Two leaks actually. One is right where you said behind the pump housing. That seal is all dried out and will need replaced.

kbomb,

Maybe you have covered this already and I didn't notice, but... have you checked the transom yet for rot?

Doug

It's rotten I'm pretty sure. I did a knock knock test and she thuds at the bottom. I'm planning on replacing it. The wood on the transom is fully exposed on the inside of the boat where the outrive cutout is located. No gel goat or glass that I can tell. Based on that alone, I'm guessing it's shot

Hey man, something else to look at on that water pump. If you remove the impeller and the vanes dont flex back to being straight, or if they stay bent and in the shape it is in now you need to replace it. The vanes are supposed to be soft and flexible. After a while, they become hard and conform to the shape of the housing which will kill your water pressure.

Tony

The vanes are somewhat flexible, but I will replace it if I keep this project. While running the motor today it actually sucked water through pretty well. I ran a clear tube from the transom to the feed bucket and it was sucking water pretty steady. The temp did get up to about 210-220 for a few moments though.

The water pump seals are all shot though. Check out the youtube vid. She's leaking a steady stream outta the copper tube seals AND from behind where the shaft goes through the housing. Also the lower bolt for the water pump has a poor heli coil repair in the bracket. I'll get to that at some point too.

-----------------------------

For more boring details on the ignition parts and subsequent methods for getting the penta running today:

Got the new ignition parts today from Napa and Advanced Auto Parts. I bought a single spark plug wire from Napa, but ended up not using it. It was interesting because I had a plug wire break off from the connector on the spark plug end but I was able to screw the wire back into the connector housing. I didn't know that was possible before-- just tried it and it went back on. But prior to finding that out I did order a single wire from Napa which is cool. You can get them in different sizes individually. Cost $4 and something cents. That's how I'll replace all the wires. cheaper and more custom.

So I only installed new points and a rotor because they didn't have the condenser or cap. I cleaned off the contact points inside the cap and stuck'er back on.

I cleaned out the float reservoir in the carb because it was full of old gas and all gross in the bottom.

Once I got the distributor back in the right place (was in the wrong position for a few tries), she fired right up! Vrooom, vrooom!

Also, once that was all done, I decided to do another compression test all the way accross without first squirting in too much oil like I did last time. I'm happy about the results:

Cylinder #1 - 160
Cylinder #2 - 162
Cylinder #3 - 160
Clyinder #4 - 160

It looks like a got a decent motor here. It did have a little misfire though. I'll have to track that down. Could be the plug wires since they are hard as a rock and really old. Or the cap, or the timing. I didn't even use a feeler gauge for the points, just eyeballed it and once it was running just turned the distributor here and there till it sounded good. Not too scientific. I'll have to prolly get a strobe.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Good job on getting the engine running. The thing is -- if you spend $3000 on your restoration, you'll know what you have from the inside out aned your boat would be practically new. If you junk this one and spend $3000 on a used boat, you won't know what you've got... plus the knowledge you'll gain from the restoration is priceless.

 

[fishdog4449]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

agree with cptkid. if you do everything yourself, you will have a greater peice of mind and trust in your boat than it you got a used one and had to worry all the time about the way the previous owner maintained and treated it.
on another note, good job with the motor and boat so far keep up the good work!!!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Glad to see you got the motor running and it sounds pretty healthy. Good luck on your project.

 

[JAL51974]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Nice going on resurrecting that engine! They are really pretty easy to work on and things are accessible. I am currently rebuilding the starter on mine.
Your overheat problems are no doubt due to poor sealing at the waterpipes like I explained, easily fixed by new seals, etc.

If you need a timing light let me know, 2 good friends have given me their old ones since they don't need them plus I bought a new one from HarborFrieght and just would like to break even on that purchase.

Joe

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: 85 Capri...frightening project boat

Plus, we like to see people fix up their boats! So, if you abandon the project, we will all be dissappointed and sad :-( just kidding.

If you need good prices for engine parts, www.ebasicpower.com is where I recommend. I've yet to find anyone beat their prices on items like starters, alternators, waterpumps, etc...