85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

[Average Angler]

Top cylinder isnt hitting.
Second down seems to be barely hitting.
3&4 hitting hard and good.
I can pull top 2 wires and motor still runs good.

I can see spark arcing from all 4 wires.. Carb bowls are full and jets clean.I can choke top carb with my hand and it spits gas and bogs down..so it seems to be hitting.. If I spray carb clean or starting fluid in the top carb it boggs down..but when i pull the wire, no change in idle.

Slight change when I pull #2 wire..

Neighbor says it probably needs to be run for a bit to blow it out??

At idle it is smooth. Starts right up from cold with one choking pop. But when i get to about half throttle (dry docked) it starts poppin and bucking and smoking...like the cylinder is trying to hit...I dont want out in the water like that.

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated..Thanks for reading..

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Top cylinder isnt hitting.
Second down seems to be barely hitting.
3&4 hitting hard and good.
I can pull top 2 wires and motor still runs good.

I can see spark arcing from all 4 wires.. Carb bowls are full and jets clean.I can choke top carb with my hand and it spits gas and bogs down..so it seems to be hitting.. If I spray carb clean or starting fluid in the top carb it boggs down..but when i pull the wire, no change in idle.

Slight change when I pull #2 wire..

Neighbor says it probably needs to be run for a bit to blow it out??

At idle it is smooth. Starts right up from cold with one choking pop. But when i get to about half throttle (dry docked) it starts poppin and bucking and smoking...like the cylinder is trying to hit...I dont want out in the water like that.

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated..Thanks for reading..

I checked compression....140 across all 4 cylinders.
3 are firing. one not. i switched coil packs around and the coil pack is good...
What next?

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

I checked compression....140 across all 4 cylinders.
3 are firing. one not. i switched coil packs around and the coil pack is good...
What next?

well, i took it in the water today. Was a struggle at first then..bam I hit 38mph.

Dont know what it was but it aint missing now.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Check the spade lug connections on the terminal block that the CD modules, trigger and stator wires are connected to. Sometimes the factory uses a small piece of heat shrink to cover the crimped/soldered connection right where the wire is attached to the spade lug. The wires sometime break inside the heat shrink tubing and you can see it. The tubing holds the wire to the spade lug and it looks like it's attached when in fact, it's not.

Also make sure the ground wire that goes from the coil mounting plate to the engine block is making good contact.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Maybe you need to de-carbonize the engine first and then continue with the troubleshooting.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

85 has the plugin connectors.Make sure they are tight?
WD in the sockets.
Sounds like the carb picked up a piece of dirt?
Install a filter between the carb and pump.
Wally World G-2 is for the 1/4in line or G-12 for 5/16in.
Check the hoses for Ethanol damage?
Then set air screws at 1 turn out.Then adjust from there.
Manual?? Get the factory one.

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Hi everyone, thanks for the advice. I thought i had the problem licked but....
I have been boating my heart out. Its been running great.
Fires right up everytime, idle a little high.. But every time i take it out, I can tell its running on bottom 2 cylinders.
I open it to WOT and it kinda putts along ...then a little sputter and bam, all 4 start firing and it runs all day. Until friday.
I got out on the water ...same thing, starts right up, runs on 2, I motor away from the ramp. I get out in the channel it doesn't open up.
so I ride....putter-putter...It starts hitting but only on 3...get up to plane ..and it dies!!!
I pulled the cowl and started jackin around with wires looking for a bad connection...no start no spark..hmmm...
Dropped the trolling motor and headed for the closest ramp I could find. Wouldn't you know, all the starting ran down my batteries and I was only able to get about 100 yds from the ramp. I dropped anchor..hell of a current. Fiddled with some wires and she started,,,but firing only 1 cylinder...it was rough, but I made it to the ramp...(pull start with rope)
It was idling so I let it charge batteries for a second. while I fiddled with wires more.
I got the #3 cylinder firing and decided to head for my ramp on 2 cylinders. It eased on home like that(thank god).
Got it home and out it on muffs and it fired right up.
Upon insection, the trigger wires going to the top 2 coils had manged to get up to the flywheel and skinned off the insulation. I clipped them back and added a short piuece of wire with crimps covered with 2 layers of quality heat shrink...I also went ahead and eliminated the connectors for the bottom 2 coils and but connectored them together..just to eliminate a bad connection.
Turned it over...nothing.
fiddled some more...fired right up and hit on all 4....got it to the ramp...dead in the water..nothing.
Something puzzled me though.
while I was trying to crank it, I was using a wrench to jump the solenoid and had my hand on the block feathering the throttle...it shocked the everlovin shioz out of me...So i touched it again...I mind has well been holding the damn plug wire.

I have looked over everything thoroughly and cannot find any apparent problems.. I bought a harmonic puller and some bolts and tap in case I break the 1/4 inch...that was my next move.
I started ohming stuff just to see if i could find any obvious inconsistencies ...from trigger wire to boot on coil..I got about 300 ohms on each coil..
Is there anyway to ohm to see if the ignition is grounding out somewhere..
BTW, i did check all connections ,,including the spades on the lug.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on what to look for. Or do these symptoms point to any specific part?

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

well, i got the flywheel off...used the m6 bolts and stripped the threads immediatly..
tapped it out to 3/8 and it popped right off..
I cant see any obvious damage other than surface rust.
Dont know where to go from here...

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

well, I found slight voltage at the terminal where the white kill wires going to the packs are. Slight, 0.09 volts...
Is this enough to make a problem?
Says NO VOLTAGE should be detected...?

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

well, I have found that I have infinite resistance on blue and yellow leads to both cdi...? I unplugged them and tested the leads leading up to stator. i am guessing this is a problem...?

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

also found that on one of the wires, I have only 85 ohms of resistance

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

found a burn mark between 2 of the coils on the stator. im guessing its fried.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition both have test procedures.
The CDI is a bit different than the other.

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

Outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition both have test procedures.
The CDI is a bit different than the other.

Did that, Pretty sure that the stator is fried. I get no continuity through the blue and yellow wires, and I get continuity to ground through one of the yellows.

Is it possible that this is what is causing current to run through the "kill circuit"?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

You need to verify the yellow/blue wires are the stator wires. If they are reading "open" you might want to get as close as possible to the stator and read again. If they read open it's time to replace the stator or do a further investigation where the break in the wiring is at. If it is embedded in the varnished stator winding then the only option is to replace it. But if it is just outside the varnished, you can try re-soldering and re-insulating it. While at it you might want to inspect all wiring for integrity especially those located or running under the flywheel.

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

You need to verify the yellow/blue wires are the stator wires. If they are reading "open" you might want to get as close as possible to the stator and read again. If they read open it's time to replace the stator or do a further investigation where the break in the wiring is at. If it is embedded in the varnished stator winding then the only option is to replace it. But if it is just outside the varnished, you can try re-soldering and re-insulating it. While at it you might want to inspect all wiring for integrity especially those located or running under the flywheel.

I am sure. I pulled the stator from the powerhead. absolutley no continuity. And i got good continuity from one of the yellow wires to ground...Pretty sure thats not supposed to happen.
Funny thing is, I went to the local graveyard and we pulled several, but got the same readings.
I am fairly certain it need replaced because there were burn mark between two of the towers on the stator.
I will have a used one that "looks" good" on in a couple hours and know.

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

I replaced the stator, It is firing now.
But its dying almost right away. Also idling very high.
It seems like a plug wire is grounding.
It was doing this right before I burnt the other stator and I am scared to burn this one.
Pls help me out, I am ready to get back on the water...You know how that is...
Here is a video...

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

If you suspect a plug wire grounding, you need to identify which plug wire. Usually, you can easily do this by trying to raise each wire off ground or away from the engine body while listening for changes in engine rpm. Personally, I just try feeling with my bare hands of course I do get that tingling sensation too. You might have to put it in fast idle to keep it from dying. I mean just enough to keep it running while troubleshooting.

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

If you suspect a plug wire grounding, you need to identify which plug wire. Usually, you can easily do this by trying to raise each wire off ground or away from the engine body while listening for changes in engine rpm. Personally, I just try feeling with my bare hands of course I do get that tingling sensation too. You might have to put it in fast idle to keep it from dying. I mean just enough to keep it running while troubleshooting.

It does it all rpms..

 

[Average Angler]

Re: 85 force 125... Not hitting on all 4, has spark&fuel

I still haven't been able to figure out what is going on with it.
I would like to figure out what burnt the stator before I torch the new one.
is it possible for a bad battery to burn the stator? I read that somewhere once.
Thanks for any opinions.